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Relevant legal documents
Source: Reddit- Private front-end.
(Eastern District of Michigan - Detroit)
My husband, Conrad Rockenhaus, is wrongly incarcerated in a county jail. I’m posting this here because you are one of the few communities that will understand the full technical and political reality of how he ended up there.
My husband is a former Tor operator, and at one point, he ran some of the fastest relays and exit nodes in the world.
This nightmare began when he refused to help the FBI decrypt traffic from his exit nodes.
Months later, the government arrested him. Their official reason? A minor, non-violent CFAA charge from an old workplace dispute that had nothing to do with Tor.
In fact, the statute of limitations was just a couple of months from expiring. It was a clear pretext to target him.
That minor charge was all they needed to get him into the system. To deny him bail, a U.S. Probation Officer in Texas lied under oath, telling a judge that Conrad had installed a “Linux OS called Spice” to “knock out their monitoring software” and access the “dark web.”
Here is the technical reality of their lie: The software was a standard SPICE graphics driver needed for his Ph.D. program. As many of you know, this is a basic utility for displaying graphics from a virtual machine. It is not an OS, has no connection to the dark web, and was technically incapable of interfering with their monitoring software.
The claim is a technical absurdity, equivalent to saying a mouse pad can hack a server.
Based on that lie alone, he was held in pre-trial detention for three years.
Now, the retaliation has escalated in Michigan. After I filed a formal complaint against his US probation officers for harassment, they used fraudulent warrants to jail my husband again.
During this violent arrest by US Marshals (who smashed in our windows and nearly shot my dog) he sustained a severe head injury that caused him to have a grand mal seizure in court. The jail’s “medical attention” was to ask him what year it was (he said 2023) and then send him back to his cell. He is being denied real medical care.
See videos:
- Feds threatening to sick dogs on us
- Feds beating by husband in the head
- Feds smashing in our windows
- Feds threaten to shoot my dog
- More threats to shoot my dog
To make matters worse, U.S. District Judge Stephen J. Murphy, III has created a procedural trap that has stripped my husband of his right to a lawyer to fight for his life, health, or innocence. He is trapped in a constitutional and medical crisis.
I am not asking for money. I am asking for your help to amplify this story. You understand the technical truth and why this fight is so important.
We have all the evidence: the court transcript of the false testimony, the fraudulent warrants, the proof of medical neglect. It’s documented on my website:
TL;DR: My husband, a former Tor operator, refused to help the FBI decrypt Tor traffic. They retaliated by using an old, unrelated CFAA offense to arrest him and then lied about him using a "graphics driver to access the dark web” to keep him in pre-trial detention for 3 years. Now he’s been jailed again in Michigan on fraudulent violations, is being denied care for a head injury, and has no lawyer.
I need help getting the word out🙏
Adrienne Rockenhaus
For updates:
More Context from her comment:
Seeing a lot of questions and some misinformation in the comments, so I wanted to clarify a few key facts with sources:
- On the original case: My husband did not have a trial. He took a coerced guilty plea in Texas after being held for three years based on perjured testimony about a “SPICE graphics driver.” We have the court transcript proving the perjury on our website.
- On the violent arrest: The claim that my husband was “combative” is a complete fabrication, likely being spread to justify the U.S. Marshals’ actions. We have the unedited security camera footage of the entire raid, and it proves the opposite.
- On the relevance of Tor: The government’s retaliation against our family began after my husband, a Tor exit node operator, refused to help the FBI decrypt traffic. They then used an unrelated workplace dispute as the pretext for the initial charge. The entire case stems from his support for online privacy.
I’m seeing comments about a deeply offensive search term (“NAMBLA”) that the prosecution brought up in my husband’s 2020 hearing in Texas, and I want to address it directly so there is no confusion. The search was for an article my husband was writing for Encyclopedia Dramatica, a well-known (and very controversial) satirical wiki that parodies offensive topics. He was researching the topic to make fun of it, much like the show South Park did in a famous episode. The prosecution knew this search was irrelevant to the case, but they put it in front of the judge anyway . This is a classic “poison the well” tactic, using something shocking and out-of-context to prejudice a judge against a defendant. It’s a hallmark of a malicious prosecution. While they want everyone distracted by this, the real issues are the ones they can’t defend: the fraudulent warrants, the perjured testimony, the ongoing medical neglect, and the judge’s documented conflict of interest.
It sucks these guys are going through this. Worst possible time to really need a fair and functional justice system. I hope someone points them to the ACLU; they’re built for exactly this situation: https://www.aclu.org/about/contact-us
Edited to remove misplaced condolences
I am not the original poster, I only posted it here.
I’m sure they’ve tried and probably have some help already. The ACLU is not infinitely full of resources and the state seems very hellbent on turning TOR into spyware through whatever coercion required.
This is sadly nothing new. The militarization of domestic law enforcement agencies since the 1980s has only made it worse.
I hope more people understand this: the real legal system is social media now. Instead of lawyers, you pay PR companies to spin your story into a national news, that’s the only way to get expedited (fair?) trial now. Laws mean shit.
Is that what this post is? Spin doctoring for a druggy hacker?
That’s not true. Millions of dollars also works.
Getting elected as the president of the United States of America seems to be the top choice for rapists these days.
Getting someone elected as the president of the United States and baking sure they know you helped also works.
Child rapists
Oi oi oi, don’t make social media into a court of justice. Doesn’t end well.
Not just the legal system. Need healthcare? Pay PR companies to run a GoFundMe.
The US runs on charlatanism.
charlatanism
Stealing that. Thanks.
Edit: wouldn’t that make it a Charlatanocracy? 🤔
Oh fuck, good luck fighting the system
From tptacek on ycombinator:
OK, I think I found the original thing Rockenhaus was convicted of. Back in 2014, Rockenhaus worked for a travel booking company. He was fired. He used stale VPN access to connect back to the company’s infrastructure, and then detached a SCSI LUN from the server cluster, crashing it. The company, not knowing he was involved, retained him to help diagnose and fix the problem. During the investigation, the company figured out he caused the crash, and terminated him again. He then somehow gained access to their disaster recovery facility and physically fucked up a bunch of servers. They were down a total of about 30 days and incurred $500k in losses. (He plead this case out, so these are I guess uncontested claims).
Relevant:
Screwing with your current or former employer: not a great idea.
So he deserves being beaten for running a TOR node now?
He plead this case out
The OP provides a fair amount of evidence that this was a coerced plea.
Try contacting Legal Eagle. If your story is true, it should be a slam dunk. Also, the guy and his network is good about explaining the details of legal cases on Youtube. In a world where public acknowledgement is 6/10ths the law, a media savvy lawyer is much better than a oldschool one.
Absolutely yeah.
It would be amazing to see this as a LE video in a couple of weeks!
He currently has 3.7m followers on YouTube, so it would certainly shine some daylight on this situation.
Legal Eagle either won’t or shouldn’t represent a guy who caused his employer $500k in damages and has a history of parole violations and involvement in drugs and online harrassment
So he’s not a person now worthy of dignity? Should we kick his head in too since he did something bad once, seems like a fitting punishment. Why dont we just throw him off a cliff and be done with it. I mean, he probably had unclean thoughts once and deserves it anyway am I right?
Listen, if you have a history of parole violations including drug abuse, you hack your employer and cause 500K in damages, and you spend late nights looking up pedophilia organizations: then I think the only person not considering your dignity is you.
No you clown. Your reading comprehension approaches nil while your ignorance trends to infinity.
Your opening line a) misses the point; b) puts words in their mouth.
An internet celebrity is being suggested to somehow speak about a man with an extremely complicated and criminal history; anybody with a brain could see it goes against the basic interests of the Channel presenter. Yet somehow you convert that into “WHAt You SaY! He NO gEt DiGnitTY?!”
Clearly he deserves dignity, and the details are appalling. But there’s something severely wrong with you and your ability to process a basic discussion.
Why are you so angry at a random internet stranger? You should figure that out…
He’s (read: finitebanjo) literally said before that Mexicans arrested for crimes belong in the border cages.
Who is “he”? Man, this comments section is a shitshow.
They’re probably talking about me, I did indeed say once that for serious crimes like murder or rape that Immigrants should be detained and see trial. However, I never said they belonged in the ICE camps, nor did I extend that treatment to traffic violations an I definitely don’t respect the ICE’s “warrants” generated without any district attorney’s or judges involved.
I piss off a lot of Tankies so I encounter shitshows like this pretty often.
And?
Regardless of who you are, you have a constitutional right to a trial, and to be judged by a jury of your peers. He can’t even get a trial at all, in three fucking years.
I don’t know what you’re not getting here. This is a gross miscarriage of justice. The person who had been incarcerated really isn’t, and shouldn’t be the focal point. The point is that they can, will, and are doing this shit to people.
I could give a shit less if the guy is innocent or guilty. But that part hasn’t even happened yet.
There’s no excuse that is acceptable for process and procedure to be this bad. No matter the crime.
News flash, the mexicans stuck in cages aren’t having fair trials, and this is a bad thing.
… Does this somehow justify them not giving anyone a trial?
You seem to be stuck in what-about-isms that emphasize that there’s a problem.
There is process and procedure that those people should have to go through that right now, ICE is just not doing. That doesn’t make what’s happening here any better. Both things are horrible.
I don’t get your point here.
Banjo is pro these things. I am anti these things.
You are quite clearly missing the point, I kindly suggest that you read the other comments more carefully.
I’m not missing the point when Banjo said human respect is removed when you steal a candy bar, because it is illegal to steal.
So because other people are suffering, we should also allow others to succumb to suffering too?
The rhetorical answer is NO: we should fight for the rights of everyone. Mexicans, Haitians, Koreans, undocumented immigrants, conmen like Trump, fascists, and even pedophiles. Rights are afforded to everyone, and people’s behavior leading them to be arrested and tried is a sign of a poorly functioning society.
The only people that benefit from us bickering at each other are the capitalists. The sooner we all help each working class other, the sooner we can unite against the real cause of suffering in the world: the rich.
So because other people are suffering, we should also allow others to succumb to suffering too?
No! I’m anti suffering! Why am I being downvoted for wanting fair trials to mexicans?!
Do you have no empathy or understanding of human emotions?
I have empathy for him and his victims as well, and the foresight to see he was a danger to others if left unchecked, unfortunately you appear to have a deep hatred for the involved authorities and that’s clouding your judgement.
What are his victims in this? I’m honestly confused. It would take… a lot to justify some of the shady legal stuff going on here.
He supposedly caused his employer $500K in damages and also has a history of parole violations and behavior such as drug abuse and online harassment.
And that’s the key word in this conversation: ‘Supposedly’
This man has not had a trial nor any legal representation. These are purely accusations and he’s been afforded 0 opportunity to argue his innocence which should be assumed until proven guilty.
Innocent or guilty is completely irrelevant at this point, it’s his right to a fair trial that people are suggesting Legal Eagle should report on, and that I agree with.
Banjo does not want to wait, it’s good enough that he’s suspected of a crime.
His trial was delayed far too long, but the reasons for his detainment are valid and if later proven false then he will have every right to sue them over it for a heafty payout.
There is a point where a suspect can and has proven he will cause more harm before his trial, and this is clearly one of those. It isn’t some random guy, this isnt a first time offender, its somebody who repeated broke parole and caused massive damages.
Wtf they are just lawful thugs.
Mental Outlaw released a video about it:
https://odysee.com/@AlphaNerd:8/the-fbi-arrested-a-major-tor-node:6
Not going to comment on the legal case, since I am technical, not a lawyer.
You can absolutely use a Spice Client to attempt to hide what you are doing on a PC from monitoring software. https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/SPICE
In the same way my HDMI cable does.
It’s crazy that you can get held indefinitely just for having software that could be used to hide something though.
Not that I think this is the full story
There are laws and amendments against the state being able to do this but you have to have the power to enforce those rights because the state won’t willingly respect them for you. The constitution and amendments are not the property or responsibility of the state. They are the property and responsibility of the citizens, an agreement to abide it’s authority only when that authority does not exceed that agreement. The state will absolutely attempt to exceed that authority every chance it gets. Power wants to grow and must be starved of it’s ability to do so by a citizenry willing and capable or doing so.
But America is not a nation of citizens, it is closer to a nation of slaves. The work is hard and people are easily encourage to be lazy. Once that laziness cedes enough power to the state, the people are prevented from doing that work at all and you stop have any agreement with the state, constitutional or otherwise.
Skimming the transcript it looks like he out was on bail which had the condition of police spyware on his computer. The bail was cancelled because his parole officer testified that he had download software that could be used to bypass their spyware.
It looks like downloading Tor alone was a violation of his bail.
So pretty typical stuff unfortunately, but even so I hope he walks. I’m sick of this openly broken justice system: Jail, police raids, plea bargains, dead pets, prison sentences for us and fines, endless appeals, grand juries, expedited Supreme Court rulings and out of court settlements for them.
I am sorry to ask this, but I think that I must be missing something… Do you mean that you can use spice to hide what you’re doing on a PC by… Using another PC remotely via spice?
I use proxmox regularly and I’m having a difficult time understanding how I could use the built-in spice client to hide anything I’m doing.
No worries. Usually in cases of cybercrimes, rather than a Judge banning a person from using a computer, they enter into a plea deal, where you agree to software monitoring. You are of course not allowed to try to circumvent this software.
So it’s exactly what you are suggesting. You would use a spice client to control an unmonitored computer or virtual machine. On the monitoring software, it would only record the use of the spice client software and not details like, websites visited, applications used, files downloaded etc.
No worries. Usually in cases of cybercrimes, rather than a Judge banning a person from using a computer, they enter into a plea deal, where you agree to software monitoring. You are of course not allowed to try to circumvent this software.
Because it’s usually my business to circumvent literally everything, I pondered this scenario to myself.
You have to have government spyware on your PC/laptop. The stipulations likely mean you have to report any new hardware you use to the police. There’s likely more stringent spying over your home ISP, so… how do you play this?
You’d need a buddy and his internet connection for the setup, but then there’s the home connection, the new MAC address hitting the router. Won’t the police want to investigate the new hardware?.. that is, unless the router is entirely ignorant of the new laptop yet still sharing a connection to it.
Man, this is tough… unless you can get a connection out of your home network without alerting anyone to new hardware, or having it identified, you’re kinda locked out, and any new item would be scrutinized and visible. A VM would be visible on anything pre-existing that they already bugged.
So, hope your Buddy lives next door and he’s sharing his wifi, but if I were the cops, I’d be watching everyone around you just as closely as you.
The court documents seem to imply the spyware is relatively primitive and only checks for URLs visited
The long game is the only one that matters. In five years? Ten? Still just primitive?
Calyx Internet paid via crypto might help in this thought experiment
I don’t have experience with monitoring software, but I could believe that a VM could be ‘opaque’ to a monitoring software, and so any sort of RDP or VNC or SPICE or whatever might be beyond the monitoring capabilities. SPICE being a bit appealing since it tends to be a little faster when available.
For example, my work demands that virtual machines have antivirus installed, because host level antivirus can’t see into the VMs.
If it worked by screenshotting, then I don’t see how it could work, but if they hook the OS in other ways I could see it.
Oh, I think I see whats being discussed here. Basically, it could be used to obscure activities from electronic surveillance of local actions, but not from someone observing actions by watching over your shoulder.
Thanks
Sorry but I don’t believe anything until it’s from a reliable source and this person is definetly not one.
Even if he did it, being kept in jail in three years before even getting a conviction is utter bullshit. That is abuse of authority, not justice.
Happens all the time. I see it all the time. Most file for a speedy trial and it still takes a long time.
Yeah. I could care less what the charges are. Dude has a concussion and just had a seizure, after being held without a conviction for three years, and can’t even see a real doctor?
Fuck everything about this.
I mean, I would expect better for convicted felons like Donald Trump, and this guy hasn’t even been proven guilty of anything. It’s entirely possible the guy is innocent, but he’s going to end up a vegetable before they get that far.
I hope they sue the courts and take them for all they’re worth because this shit is fucked.
I know, right? Just like deporting people without due process.
deleted by creator
she posted video, court documents… hell she has a literal whole fucking site full of evidence https://rockenhaus.com/press-kit/
wtf is wrong with you? you think every person on the planet who gets in legal trouble gets on the news? just what the hell do you consider a reliable source? because the news these days isn’t what i would necessarily call reliable.
she posted video
Yeah a video where they don’t come out of the house for like 10 minutes after the house is surrounded by US marshals who constantly shout that they have an arrest warrant. So they break into the house - he still refuses to come out - and well he get’s dragged out by force.
court documents
Yeah and these say nothing about operating a TOR exit node.
you think every person on the planet who gets in legal trouble gets on the news?
This is not the news, this is social media. And a lot of people like upvoting clickbait titles without reading further.
This post should read “Guy get’s arrested for parole violation after causing $500k in computer damages to former employer” and not for running a Tor exit node.
I was going through one of the documents and felt like things weren’t quiiite presented with the full context.
I only skimmed it so I may be wrong, but from what I can tell, husband had court mandated spyware installed on his machine. His parole officer or whoever got suspicious when he noticed no activity on husbands machine, and it sounds like husband had installed Linux to bypass the spyware. Yes, court was absolutely wrong to name spice as the OS, but the original post made it sound like the court made up a bunch of tomfoolery. Is the lie that Linux was never installed, or just that the court called it by the wrong name?
That said, husband got fucked real bad by ex and lawyer if those sections in the post are true.
EDIT: I was encouraged by a deleted comment to give the document a thorough reading, and a few clarifying details aside the broad context still seems correct. They were referring to spice as a remote access tool and not the EE circuit simulator I thought they were talking about. But besides that, yeah it sounded like he had court mandated spyware that he evaded, and the spice stuff wasn’t just made up kangaroo court stuff. On September 22nd, he looked up tor. On the 23rd, he looked up spice. There was very little, if any activity reported by the spyware since then, but his wife said he still checked email, suggesting to his parole officer that spice was used for remote desktoping. Maybe that’s where the perjury comes into play? Can’t confirm because there’s no publicly shared info on the ex-wife.
Does anyone else who read through the document have a different understanding?
deleted by creator
Can you paste more of the story in here under a comment or something? I think a lot of people would be interested, but maybe not to click the link if the link even worked and was not blocked.
I just did that.
:)
… Horrifying as this all is:
Further evidence that TOR is far from safe or secure.
Why?
The super short version is that if your traffic gets bounced through enough transit nodes, which are honey pots, you can be deobfuscated.
We know this because this has happened before.
This, this story happening, shows that the FBI is very, very actively interested in there being at least one less node that they do not control.
I think the destination needs to be compromised, and at least the source traffic must be monitored to de-anonymize someone (traffic correlation attack). Ignoring other possible bugs, vulnerabilities, fingerprinting, and metadata leaks.
Well, it’s pretty compelling evidence that the FBI doesn’t have the capability of breaking the encryption of the TOR network, so that’s a positive.
Ironically, yes, lol.
But you dont need to pick a lock if you have a warrant that lets you kick down a door.
Tor is safe so long as you are considering your OpSec. Decrypting an exit node would only show the police where a connection is going and can only tie it to the middle node.
They would have to have access to each layer to affirmatively link one connection to a specific website. Not impossible but the number of people at each layer makes this challenging.
If you need security, you should be cycling your tor connection frequently and using an OS like Tails to resist fingerprinting.
I’ve never run an exit node but honestly it’s the weakest point in the tor network since it bares the most risk. It’s why Tor is always looking for more people to run exit nodes so that the risk is spread across multiple end points.
And how do you know that any of the nodes your traffic is traversing… are not honey pots? Run by an intel or LE agency, or multiple of them collaborating or whatever?
Or that they’re not, untill something like this happens, and then they are?
This kind of thing has been done before, yes, its difficult to backtrace a real identity out of TOR, but it has beem done.
I guess I am not trying to say TOR offers no, 0, additional security/privacy… as you say, depends a lot on your use case and the rest of your set up… but I also do not think TOR is anywhere near as secure as the … uh, general security enthusiast community, for whom ‘opsec’ is more or less ‘i installed the secure app’… or whatever you want to call them, thinks it is.
The comments at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45261163 give the other side of the story and paint a compelling picture that this guy has done unrelated crimes (that he was convicted of) and should be in prison.
Then they should charge him for those crimes. Not these non-crimes.
They did. the reaction/article is clearly misleading the truth. Go read the other side before jumping to conclusions (that is always good advice even more so on the feddiverse where almost every headline chooses to push outrage over any attempt of the truth.
I read the ycombinator link. The guy seems like a PoS.
Nothing there justifies FBI interference with Tor endnodes.
Why are we being linked to the comments of Randos for “the other side of the story” instead of a source?
Based on that lie alone, he was held in pre-trial detention for three years.
Aahhh the good ol’ United States of America where you can be locked up indefinitely without ever havig had a trial
Freedoooooom!
USA! USA! USA!
Or… hear me out. Is it possible his wife is telling the story in the most favorable way?
Remember how everyone was talking shit about the lady who got burned from hot coffee at McDonalds, and how silly it is to sue for getting hot coffee, except it was borderline boiling and she needed medical treatment for her burns.
Let’s learn from it shall we. Maybe wait until you have more information before forming an opinion.
It’s fairly common to be jailed for years while awaiting trial if you can’t pay for bail/bonds. I’ve personally known 3 people where this was the case. I had a (false) charge once, and I was out on bail for 3 years (restricting some of my freedom) before my lawyer could get in front of a judge and get it dismissed.
For those who don’t know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants
If we ever rewrite the Constitution, having an incarceration cap of 30 days that cannot be renewed nor given different charges would fix this bullshit pretty damn quick.
Law that is slow and meandering, is injustice.
After watching the Nepali youth flip the fucking country upside down and elect their new prime minister using a Discord poll, I grow more confident every day that we will see a new Constitution in our lifetime.
I honestly wouldn’t mind America having a reboot. It has been my feeling since the turn of the millenia that America has been falling apart in slow motion. I wanted to live in a prosperous and just nation, but something has felt sour for the longest time.
In any case, if America does have a civil war, I expect to serve as an ordinary soldier for the ReUnion. I want to live the rest of my life in a positive peace, but I have the feeling that the conservatives would destroy everything that makes life worth living.
Law doesn’t mean jack shit if it isn’t enforced.
Isn’t this already the 6th amendment in spirit? If they’re calling this guy’s trial speedy, then I don’t believe they even care what words mean.
Part of the problem is that there aren’t specifics, IMO. Back in the days of the 13 colonies, there probably wasn’t enough consistent means of communication, transport, and supply of legal specialists to get stuff done - thus left vague. By making concrete rules, it becomes harder for abuse to happen.
While it does ultimately boil down to human will, rules that have a solid structure can help guide interactions.
This is something that should be defined in law, but in the Constitution, “speedy” should be enough.
Yeah, they should probably make that defined in a law.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-628-speedy-trial-act-1974
The real problem is the system operates on an expectation you will wave the right to a speedy trial, and once waved its my non lawyer understanding you can’t reassert it. So they push you to wave it, additionally you and your lawyer often wants it waved too because the government has as much time as they want to prepare their case before your arrest but you and your lawyer are playing catch up so more time means you’re more prepared for trial.
In this case, the defendant’s lawyer asked for and got a bunch of continuances presumably as a plea negotiation tactic.
He also tried to have his own client declared mentally incompetent to stand trial. The Speedy Trial Act clock was suspended during the time it took to evaluate that.
Finally there was an initial plea deal for 18 months that was agreed to by both sides. But it was rejected and thrown out by the judge as too lenient. After that, plea negotiation basically started over again.
The sentencing guideline for this charge was around 78 months, mainly because if the high dollar damage. The final sentence from the second plea deal was 40 months.
As long as I live I will never enter the borders of the USA Jesus fucking Christ you guys have it bad there.
Smart! I occasionally run into Chinese tourists over here at Independence Hall (where the country was founded), and every single time I pass I am like, “good lord, you all put your lives in your hands for Philly?”
It’s the Philly cheesesteaks, they aren’t there for freedom worship.
Listen I’m from here, I get it, but damn just video chat me I’ll teach you how to cook a good one at home for free! It’s not hard!
Might be difficult to get cheese whiz though
This is true, what with tariffs and export controls. But, here’s a little secret from someone who grew up here: there’s no one acceptable cheese type. Some like American cheese (the closest you’ll get outside of the US is probably semi-soft muenster or young white cheddar; ‘American cheese’ is just a form of buttermilk-rich mild white cheddar), some like fresh provolone, some like the trashy stuff because it forms more of a sauce that forms a better coating of fat on your tongue.
They’re actually all fine. The real secret is that you only use either rib eye or chuck, chip it extremely fine (you should be able to see light through a chip), and then fry it in a steel or iron pan with white onions and a dab of a flavorless seed oil, like corn or canola. Start it over low heat, and using a flat metal flipper (NOT a spatula. Look it up. There’s a difference), keep chopping that beef and onion mix until it forms thin sheets. Drop a slice (or dab) of cheese on top, and let it melt and seal the pan to steam the beef.
Then, chop it a couple more times. Place your flat flipper on the pan and let it very hot. Drop another slice or dab of cheese on it, then run it through the center of a V-split long roll. Here, our authentic rolls are yeast-risen with a tougher crust that flakes on the top layer, a bit like filoh dough. A baguette would be too firm. You want a soft roll that can be split down the longways. Then, put your chipped beef + cheese + onion mash into the roll, and bam, you’re right there at 2am on South Street listening to some rich kid scream-talk about how he wants someone to date him to walk into Condom Kingdom.
I think the only real rule is that if you’re using a high quality cheese, you’re doing it wrong
They’ve been progressing towards Christian fascist dictatorship for a long time.
The whole “overthrowing democratically elected governments coz they’re anti-American imperialism &/or socialist” was a pretty strong indicator they don’t give a shit about democracy.
For a lot of minorities, it has been a christo-fascist entity for the entire time. The ouroboros of fascism is just starting to eat its own tail.
I live in the U.S. and just based on my lived experience so far I don’t see this type of thing as being particularly likely to happen to someone. To me it’s similar to how I probably won’t die if I drive to the grocery store. But every year tons of people die in traffic accidents so there IS a non-neglible chance that I will too. But I probably won’t. You’ll probably be fine if you come here, it’s not that bad yet.
Your lived experience == reality.
~5-7% of American citizens can expect to be incarcerated in their lifetime. Average time for state prison1 is 3.1 yearsmeaning this guy’s experience is, currently, average.
If you’re black that number jumps to 13-18%.
It has seen a significant decrease since 2008, with 2020-21 being the sharpest decline. It used to be the worst in the world by far, but post 2020 the US rate dropped significantly, nearly in half from 2008, and El Salvador went insane.
For comparison the likelihood of dying in a car accident is ~1.08%. Which is also rather high for a “developed country”
It isn’t just that bad, it’s worse. You just don’t know any better.
1 currently unable to find more general statistics
Psst, markdown turned your backslash from not-equals into equals
Nah this guy’s experience is not average. After all, ~5-7% of American citizens can expect to be incarcerated in their lifetime. The average experience is to never be incarcerated.
I stand by what I said. He’ll probably be fine. It’s not that bad. It’s not “I’ll never step foot in the U.S.” bad. Give me a break.
“average experience for those incarcerated in state prison” if you want to be pedantic about any of the specific parts there then go off king. It’s not a formal risk analysis, it’s a sanity check.
To be fair this is why incarceration rate is usually used instead. And by that metric if the US is safe then the only unsafe places in the world are El Salvador, Cuba, Rwanda and Turkmenistan.
And to reiterate the US in 2025 is a significant improvement on the state things since the peak back in 2008.
