- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.ca
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Dunning-Kruger effect in full force in a land called Distopia States of Amerika
Yet another reminder that all the mentions of Dunning-Kruger are a better display of it’s perceived effect than the original study ever was. In the original study, people correctly predicted their performance relative to others, but the discrepancy was in the scale of that difference, which can be attributed to numerous factors. Dumb people just took it as “stupid people think they’re smart” and run around saying “Dunning-Kruger” to sound smarter… oh the irony.
And yes, given two mentions in the above text, this is, indeed, a suicide by words.
Not only there, it’s a world wide phenomenon. I keep hearing this kind of shit from people here in Germany and my family in Brazil.
Same here in Belgium
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
The US ranks in the position 33, best are China, Taiwan, Hongkong and South Corea, normal.
The used Test
IQ has a history of racism, literally eugenics stuff.
Probably not a good idea to trust this psudoscience BS. Racial minorities got sterilized over this.
Well, it is always needed to take IQ tests with a grain of salt, there are several type of intelligences and the tests normally show only the analytic capability to solve problems, but not the emotional or social intelligence to solve conflicts, which is equal or even more important. Not the tests as such are racists but the interpretation of priorities in the evaluation that is applied.
i think that conspiracy theories are more about feeling special about knowing some secret knowledge, lots of people fall for this and even create conspiracy theories without realizing, no matter how smart they are
and even create conspiracy theories without realizing
Me when I feel like things are okay.
Here’s a psychological discussion that expands on that idea: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X22000719
Kelly johnson designed the SR71 Blackbird because he was given the alien tech from rosswell new mexico to reverse engineer! No other way could the government trust 1 man with a blank check book and complete authority and have the plane designed and flying in such a short amount of time!
-my favorite conspiracy theory
If it wasn’t alien tech, we would’ve built a faster plane by now.
(I get that you’re playing into the conspiracy) the reason we haven’t is speed isn’t good enough anymore, you cannot build a plane that can outrun a missile
So the focus changed to stealth
That we know of
People need to learn how to build a “firewall” for their brain.
And epistemology to help build the firewall’s list?
“It is the mark of an educated mind, to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting nor rejecting it” --Whoever said that.
Ah so close. This comic should end with
“I did my own research”
But… I do my own research…
i went to 4 science classes senior year and i gotta say i agree with the one on the right
Should add a sentence to top panel that says “they should teach useful things in school like how to do your taxes!”
spoiler alert: that’s just reading and basic math applied to something besides a test for a grade.
Wouldn’t a better thing to teach be innovating upon technology and social structure, such that we no longer even need taxes? Nor any other rents designed to keep us down and impoverished. Imagine where we’d be now if not for the suppression of all the emancipatory technologies. All those patents being sat on, or secreted[1]. All those inventors usurped or disappeared. We have so much more headroom.
If education were not so corrupted and riddled with nonsense and slave conditioning, perhaps there’d be fewer rejecting it; fewer throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We can all be polymaths in the making, not slaves in training.
[1: According to patent office whistle blower Tom Valone, (iirc) there were already over 3000 free energy device patents secreted by the year 2000. Seriously. We have so much headroom without the corruption. Even the rich parasites would be better off, with the release and proliferation of the emancipatory technologies. …Buuuuuut, that’s not in most people’s world view to which they’re attached, and so, they tend to go on attack upon encountering mention of such, as if this new information is a threat to their life.]
Total sidetrack and total missing the point.
I didn’t say “taxes are good” or “current education is good”.
The problem I posed is that knowledge transfer is an essential skill and people who are bad at it are–I would suppose–both oblivious to it and easier to take advantage of.
Edit: TBH your comment is so whacky and on your own terms I didn’t even read to the end section. It’s not even left field, it’s 2 counties over.
Edit 2: Now I read it in full and, bro, that’s a bunch of potentially well meaning conspiratorial retardation. Just no.
You are unfortunately, literally pictured in the OP meme with a veneer of “I’m 14 and this is deep”.
Total sidetrack and total missing the point.
I didn’t say “taxes are good” or “current education is good”.
The problem I posed is that knowledge transfer is an essential skill and people who are bad at it are–I would suppose–both oblivious to it and easier to take advantage of.
Edit: TBH your comment is so whacky and on your own terms I didn’t even read to the end section. It’s not even left field, it’s 2 counties over.
Edit 2: Now I read it in full and, bro, that’s a bunch of potentially well meaning conspiratorial retardation. Just no.
You are unfortunately, literally pictured in the OP meme with a veneer of “I’m 14 and this is deep”.
Fun to see such a retort, on same day as I posted a re-creation of the extended version of Graham’s Hierarchy of Disagreement.
Starts with a non-sequitor, follows with an apparent strawman argument refuting an accusation not made, then a “not even wrong”, then arguing tone coupled with a celebration of ignorance and unwitting mischaracterisation, ending on two ad-hominems. XD See? Epistemology’s fun.
Bro, come down out of your own asshole.
Your real, no kidding argument is that this meme template best explains that people believe windmills cause cancer / vaccines cause autism / XYZ crazy thing is that the current state of education is * checks notes * “slave conditioning” and patents are being conspiratorially hidden for “emancipating technologies”? Really?
This to you is a rational following of the discussion and context, not itself a wild non sequitur (note the spelling)?
I don’t care what branch of philosophy you’re studying or what argument logic piques your interest because it just isnt relevant here. You’ve shoehorned an unrequested and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory into a post about people believing improbable and/or deranged things. And no, making your own footnote isnt a substantiation.
You can’t “I am very smart” this into making sense, even by miscounting logical fallacies or trying to couch it as an epistemological discussion which this is not.
Just… yikes.
Edit: To save my own brain cells, I’m just going to laugh and block you. Considering you are having similar discussions with others in this thread, don’t take it from me, let me recommend “Fantasyland” by Kurt Andersen. I would specifically the middle and later chapters. Even if you don’t read it in a particularly introspective way, it’s a pretty interesting read / listen.
Cheers
Wow.
None of the basic bio taught in American or Western schools is enough to actually understand mrna and how modern immunization works. Physics has ONLY been helpful to me racing cars.
The issue is tearing down institutions that serve as experts.
You have clearly not been to a high school in the Netherlands.
Please point out this material that’ll give you what you need to understand mrna. Because none of the Dutch I’ve worked with were particularly more educated than most other college grads.
It’s been a long time since I went to high school, I don’t recall which books we had exactly, but a quick google shows that now there are several tutoring websites aimed at high school kids that cover the subject.
- https://www.studeersnel.nl/nl/document/middelbare-school-nederland/biologie/bio-samenvatting-pp-rna/8114781
- https://biologielessen.nl/mrna/
- https://www.lessonup.com/nl/lesson/hhx9ojz3re2xA2Gx7/kBZQfigB6GjviSbbb
This is pretty similar to what I learned in high school.
So maybe this is definitions of “understand” but that looks exactly what I learned in HS but for cell bio/dna, and I wouldn’t say I have the education to be making medical decisions.
I may be splitting hairs at this point 🤷♂️.
Right, the education to make medical decisions generally takes ten years after high school. You can really expect schools that dont specialize in a specific field to teach knowledge like that. High schools are for general education, and thats fine.
The problem is that people who only have some hazy memories of their general education feel entitled to have an opinion about things they don’t understand and then think their opinion is just as valid as those of people who did take those 10 years to gain actual understanding.
the problem is that critical thinking should be a reflex and not a mental effort
It doesn’t help that there is way too much shitty, agenda-funded science today. And science we aren’t supposed to question. And science driven entirely by profit. Like, isn’t questioning science part of science? Of course the response is completely unreasonable too. All of my family are research scientists, and if a discovery doesn’t meet capitalistic goals, is it even a discovery at this point?
Call it pseudo-science
That’s why you teach philosophy and critical thinking. Science will follow if that’s the kid’s interest. But learning to be being self-aware of your own position amongst others, including the position of Science, is key.
That is why I am appalled at Neil deGrasse Tyson’s belief that philosophy is obsolete and exalt science as the ultimate foundation of truth and society. Where and how does he think science first came about? It was called natural philosophy before. And the scientific method has its roots from Socratic questioning. But I know that NDT is too egocentric to change his mind if called out on it.
Oof don’t get me started. He read that line from Hawking and stuck to it. I had a blast watching nuCosmos when it came out and he’s done plenty good science communication, but Carl Sagan he is not.
Yea agreed. When shitty science is given as a reference then it becomes much harder to critically judge something but at least it is not a huge amount of work to see that there is conflicting scientific data on a topic. It is a huge effort to try to gauge which one is more credible. And it does not even have to be agenda driven. It can just be bad science, science driven by strong priors. Then you really have to be an expert on the topic to be able to spot the weaknesses in that study. Luckily however most outrageously stupid statements made by politicians/billionaires and a huge body of online disinformation content don’t even refer to existing science (if it doesn’t give any references to scientific statements, assume it does not exist or ask for links) and are easy to pick apart by realizing the blatant contradictions in their statements.
Exactly
the bigger problem is that some teachers are so mentally checked out that they make those subjects actively unappealing. I wonder what makes them that way…
Students. Students make them that way. It’s no coincidence that most older teachers feel like they’ve checked out.
I did substitute teaching for about two years. I got to see a lot of my old teachers, Some classes were wonderful, a true joy to teach. Others, not so much. I can understand why some people, as you say, mentally check out. It’s a coping mechanism. They were not all the same people I remember. Maybe part of growing older. Maybe part of years of difficult students sucking out all the joy of teaching they had in them
my mom is a teacher and she has similar observation. It also has a lot to do with how parents treat their children. i don’t know if that’s a problem in US, in Ukraine my generation (born late 80s early 90s) is very insecure about their social performance and stats and it’s a complete bullshit. The current middle and school kids are affected by that. There is a lot of stuff in children’s heads that just needs time to settle and forcing to push through at someone’s else pace is counterproductive. it is a regular pattern when a student starts with solid grades but the chase for the highest grade over the years completely wrecks them and their overall grades start to slip hard because their parents conditioned them to perform and they try to brute force their way to high grades like it’s a competition when it is anything but. The burnout they go through is brutal. And by the time they finish school - it’s just a performer of sorts - a person who is able to do enough for a grade or rewards but there’s just no substance no passion behind it. Meanwhile, students who starts off mediocre or low grades at middle school level up significantly by the time they get to high school simply because they commit to figure it out and once they tap into what clicks for them (math, sciences, languages, arts) they just start pieces together their personality jigsaws and it is way less dramatic then with high performers who would do anything for a grade.
This is an important comment. We do not teach science on high schools , we stream students to science if they are self directed, then everyone else takes bullshit courses for an easy grade, these days acheived with LLMs.
yeah, and this approach is so bullshit it is ridiculous - it depends on a child being self-conscious and motivated enough to get into stuff that A LOT of time and effort to understand even with significant adult assistance and proper focus. Of course there will be a significant segment that won’t handle it well
When I was a senior in high school, I needed one more science credit for graduation, so I took Human Anatomy. It was taught by a young hippie (it was the 70s), who also taught the exact same course at the local community college.
It was a great class, with lots of cool labs, experiments, and dissections. We had to memorize every bone, and every muscle. It was one of the hardest classes I’ve ever taken, but also the most fun.
That class was filled with future doctors and nurses, so none of them were whining about how they’d never use this stuff. But I wasn’t on a medical track (I was a music history major), and I could have probably said that (I didn’t), but I have used the knowledge I gained in that class literally every single day of my life, decades later. Easily one of the best classes I took in my entire life.
Well the new world order is what the people in power want, but they only need smartphones and tv to do it. No chips in the brain needed, people are idiots.
Makes me think of this upcoming competition to find fossils that are not surrounded by the rocks that science expects.
I suspect a lot of people who believe (some subset of) the crazy nonsense are actually science inclined. But we (often/used to) teach science as about great people heroically defying the consensus and triggering a paradigm shift that changes the world. And that looks a lot more like vaccine denialism than pipetting samples for 50 hours. Some of the community spaces are clearly interested in thinking about the world, and there’s a self-isolating effect of asking someone
“Why is there a tree that’s fossilized across 5 different epochs of bedrock?”
and being told you’re a crank. Then layer on the grifters.
So yes; do remember to talk people through the facts before labeling them a conspiracy theorists, and focus on the shared amazement at how weird/complicated/nuanced the data is. Ask lots of questions!
I studied history (and by that I mean I liked to watch documentaries) and as a kid I saw educational cartoons and Anime (yes anime) that showed how there was a huge backlash against telephone and telegraphy when they first came out. With farmers blaming telegraph wire for destroying crops or crop diseases and they would sometimes even sabotage the wires and poles.
When I heard of the 5G bullshit that was literally what came to mind… it is incredible how eternal this form of ignorance is.
Which anime? I don’t recall watching anything along those lines, but it sounds like a show I’d enjoy
It was when I was growing up in the Middle East. They aired all manner of anime and mixed Japanese media (part live action part anime). That one I was thinking about was also Arabic dubbed and I dont recall the title.
(part live action part anime)
i don’t know what that’s called with animation, but one of my friends had a little stop motion studio for a while and we called that “go motion” when we’d mix live action with stop motion.
It wasnt stop motion. They had a live action segment with a girl and a puppet or costumed character (my memory is super hazy. It was a late 80s, early 90s thing and I was a little kid) and when they spoke about what they wanted to show they would do some little gesture and short song and then it would go to the anime segment.
oh gotcha i was picturing like that paula abdul music video with the cat
Eehhh… no, it was like the Patty Rabbit Maple Town VHS tapes. You had someone (live action) talk about it and then the cartoon would play.
a reverse beavis and butthead, if you will
IIRC even a passage of a novel by Giovanni Verga portrays Sicilian farmers discussing how telegraph wires absorb rain
The telegraph is turning the fricken frogs gay.
A 19th century Alex Jones sketch coming right up…
"Gentlemen (and ladies please leave for it is not for your dainty hearts!) These devilish wires that are held upon stakes that plunge into the heart of God’s green earth are doing far more than blighting our crops and potatoes! It is this same wire that I have good sources on (show them the papers, John!) *John on another podium waves blank paper piles like they mean something * that afflicted the Irish potato that lead those heathen Catholics to come over here, lorded over by their prince in Rome whose true master is the Jews!
And the main concern on all good Christian minds from these devilish telegraph wire is that they send an evil miasma that has been proven beyond all doubt (John! The proof!) That they even make the beasts of the land and water stray from the path God has lain forth and has sent them onto the path of SODOM! Gentlemen! They have turned the frogs onto sodomites!
But fear not, I have a tonic that will prevent all manner of evil from entering your heart! For but a nickel I have pint flask of the Jones invigorator! Guaranteed to ensure proper masculine strength and function, with the ladies never questioning you, and thus rendering no need to beat them to prevent them from straying onto the path of sapphistry!"
At least you got a bit of cocaine (and lead, and mercury) for your nickel
Drug historians call the years 1870 to 1914 The Great Binge for a reason…
I’m so glad that people finally start to grasp, how bad excessive specialisation really is.
society is healing
Once I was doubting the need for higher levels of mathematics. Now as an engineer I realize the utility of this knowledge.
What made my change my mind? Well it’s definitely not my intelligence nor my age, it’s the practical application of that theory which got me here. Reading in between the lines can only happen if you like what you’re doing.
I have a similar relationship with math. Only that I learnt to admire it through 3D and shaders.
Check out Shadertoy.com
People there create works of art from something, that’s usually perceived as “cold”. I’m still in awe of how people, using “cold” analythical methods achieve something so full of soul. I think it deserves to be appreciated far more than it is now. This is literal magic.
This ‘Today’ is outdated by 5+ years.
