Does method of execution, crime committed or overall cost matter to you?
Strongly against the state having the option.
I am personally not against the death penalty for some crimes if the culprit is indeed responsible but there are too many people in prison for crimes they didn’t commit already, so the burden of proof needs to be exceptional. Also, I’ve heard before that it’s actually more costly for states and tax payers to impose the death penalty because of all the built-in appeals, with the costs of the court system and attorney fees, than it is to house someone in prison for life. I further think that those convicted should have the option to choose the death penalty and type of execution for themselves, á la Gary Gilmore.
Not really, but I’m not against it. When you remember that in order to even get the death penalty, you have to be such a horrible person that you’re pretty much no longer human, I don’t see a problem with it. And then there is also the issue of the government has to pay potentially millions of dollars every years just for keeping you in prison/jail, so it also has financial benefits (not that the government needs more money, especially considering the fact that they constantly waste it on meaningless bullshit).
But I am also aware of the potential problems, like innocent people getting the death penalty. As a result, I think the death penalty should only be used in situations where there is absolutely no possibility of innocence. This means that the motive is clear and proven, and the evidence for even committing the crime(s) is/are solid.
When you remember that in order to even get the death penalty, you have to be such a horrible person that you’re pretty much no longer human
This is just absolutely not true. Throughout history countless innocent people have been executed not because of the facts, but because they were unable to defend themselves against the accusations. Meanwhile, many wealthy or powerful people have been guilty but never even charged with a crime. In fact, the nature of a crime has almost zero correlation with the sentence.
I mean, yes, but I can tell that you didn’t read my full comment before replying. I literally stated that I was aware of this issue in my second paragraph.
I know, I’m adding to what you said. I’m saying unfairness is not an “issue” of capital punishment, it’s how it is, always has been, and is impossible to do without unfairness.
The death penalty is incredibly stupid for more than one reason.
- If someone committed a crime that egregious, they should be punished every day, and you should help them live as long as possible.
- So many innocent people are put to death because our system for determining guilt is far from righteous, or right.
- You don’t talk about Fight Club.
So, I wholeheartedly agree with 2. Its the most reasonable and realistic argument against it in my opinion. I do have an issue with 1. Prison/incarnation will eventually become the new normal. Individuals will enjoy reading a book, making a friend, do drugs and in most cases continue criminal activity. In some cases even send information out, effectively running criminal enterprises from the inside. They wont be free, but, they won’t be as unhappy as people like to think.
You don’t talk about Fight Club.
No, but you mix PPV and Fight Club and it’s the best reality show ever.
I think the death penalty is more about vengeance than justice. If they’re going to happen the execution should be swift, public and if there were credible eyewitnesses to the crime, brutal!.
Against, regardless of crime. Regardless of the system used to kill. Regardless of the system used to convict or identify the criminal. Even if they are unrepentant and said they’d do it again. Even under a perfect justice system.
Now life in prison, sure.
Why is life in prison any better or worse? In your opinion.
It’s better because it’s life. Life is the medium of all value, everything else is physics.
And I don’t think prisons should be abusive torture chambers either. Revenge is poison. Prison should exist to separate the dangerous and harmful people from society, and to reform them as able.
I’m opposed to the bourgeois state using the death penalty against proles.
What if its a business owner being axed? If the proletariat rose up, axing anyone involved in ownership on the morally fine table ?
I didn’t say that. I’m not giving some kind of blanket endorsement about “axing anyone involved in ownership.” It’s not an all or nothing deal.
Sorry, thats just what tends to happen when the proletariat overthrows the bourgeoisie.
Yes, revolutions do tend to be bloody. That doesn’t mean that I have to choose between endorsing every act of violence or condemning every act of violence.
The reality is, in any conflict, innocent people usually end up getting hurt. It’s unfortunate, but if that conflict means preventing or ending other conflicts, then it’s potentially justifiable in my eyes.
If the government is, for example, drafting people en masse and forcing them to kill and die for no good reason, then overthrowing that government is justifiable, because innocent people were getting hurt anyway.
THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
-Mark Twain
It’s a good quote for this discussion and I understand where you’re coming from. So, killing someone because it serves the greater good (whatever your definition of that may be) is acceptable in your eyes. This sounds like you are in support of the death penalty, you just dont like the current form of government enforcing it. Based on the statement and quote would be fine with mass executions as long as your enemies are the ones in the guillotine.
For all intents and purposes, I’m opposed to death penalty. I am, in practice, less prone to violence than the vast majority of people. But I’m also honest and transparent about my beliefs.
The working class is so far from power that it’s virtually impossible to achieve victory while pulling punches. Either we roll over and accept things, or we go all out and use whatever means and tactics are most useful to secure power. If you go halfway and present an actual threat to power (even through nonviolence) they will use any means available to neutralize that threat. Failure means death, and it could be generations, centuries even, until there’s another opportunity for change. If you’re not prepared to use every method at your disposal to win, then you simply shouldn’t pick up the fight in the first place.
Of course, nonviolent tactics can be useful and pragmatic, in many cases, they are more effective than violent tactics. However, the choice of tactic should be driven by an honest and pragmatic assessment of the actual circumstances, and not by preconceived ideological notions about morality. And that goes both ways, it is also unacceptable to prioritize violent tactics just because someone finds them more appealing or exciting. And for the record, I’m not saying that violent tactics are the most suitable for the present circumstances. I’m just not willing to write them off for all circumstances.
For example: Suppose a resistance cell in France captures a group of SS soldiers as prisoners, but the Nazis are on their trail and preparing an attack. If the cell doesn’t execute the prisoners, there’s a chance they will be rescued and will end up contributing to the German war effort. On the other hand, perhaps those prisoners could provide valuable intel that outweighs the risk. The decision on whether to execute them should, ideally, be based on these tactical considerations, rather than either an emotional aversion to violence or an emotional desire for revenge (no matter how deserved it may be).
If you don’t have your head in the game and your eye on the prize, and the other side does, then you’re probably going to lose. And fighting and losing is worse than not fighting at all. It’s better to give up and roll over than to go out and get a bunch of people killed over a hopeless cause.
Naturally, all of this is very unrelated to the reality of how the death penalty is used in the present day, which I oppose unequivocally.
I think the death penalty could be just, but, unfortunately our justice system is too capricious and dysfunctional to be worthy of administering it.
Yeah, its tough because I feel like if we KNOW a person has commited atrocities, kill em. But, there have been so many cases of wrongful conviction it gets messy.
In a just society it will always cost more to execute a person than it would cost to imprison them for life. If that’s always going to be the case in a just society you may as well imprison them for life. The outcome is the same.
The reason execution should always cost more is because you have to be absolutely sure to the best of our abilities that the person is guilty. Until we come up with a fool proof way to determine guilt we will always run the risk of executing the wrong person for a crime.
Yes. No one knows what happens when you die, no one truly knows if someone is guilty, no judicial system is perfect etc etc. Too much risk for the reward of killing someone (with a 10 ish percent of being innocent)
I am all for it. I can think of dozens of reasons that people should be put down.
Does the method of execution matter to me? Yes.
Does the crime matter? Absolutely
Does the cost matter? No.
In terms of view. Yes. I am against it. In terms of using it as a bargaining chip to pass other annoying laws quid pro quo like it, no.
I’m strongly against death penalty when it comes to crimes of individual against individual.
I am for death penalty when it comes to crimes of influential individual against masses though.
A murderer or rapist who ruined one life doesn’t deserve death penalty. A corrupt politician who ruined countless lives cooperating with the billionaires does.
I don’t fully understand the rational. Is there a specific number of victims that would make them “deserve” it. Say you have a serial rapist with over a dozen victims, do they not deserve it because they aren’t an authority figure?
If killing people is wrong, its wrong.
Ummm, checks notes, yes, killing people is wrong.
So, checks notes, we shouldn’t do it. State sanctioned murder is still, checks notes, murder.
Our notes appear to be in alignment. Let the minutes show that 1. Murder is wrong and 2. We shouldn’t do it.
You cannot be punished if you are dead. The death penalty is just convenient catharsis and a release of burden for the living.
Not the death penalty, but the lost prophets guy who got stabbed to death recently got off easy. Death was too good for him.
Not the death penalty, but the lost prophets guy who got stabbed to death recently got off easy. Death was too good for him.
Yeah I’m 1000% against the death penalty but I also reserve the right to feel that people like him deserve death or worse. I reserve the right to feel schadenfreude and to celebrate when monsters are destroyed, even if I think that rehabilitation would be a better outcome if possible in finite time.
Well this is how I found out he died. He deserved much worse for what he did. For those who don’t know, read at your own risk: Ian Watkins.
I recognize that sentiment. I’ve heard arguments that a person can/will eventually find a level of happiness/contentment while incarcerated. They will eventually enjoy a book or have a friend. Same can’t be said for their deceased victims.
