- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
As Ireland’s $1,500-a-month basic income pilot program for creatives nears its end in February, officials have to answer a simple question: Is it worth it?
With four months to go, they say the answer is yes.
Earlier this month, Ireland’s government announced its 2026 budget, which includes “a successor to the pilot Basic Income Scheme for the Arts to begin next year” among its expenditures.
Ireland is just one of many places experimenting with guaranteed basic income programs, which provide recurring, unrestricted payments to people in a certain demographic. These programs differ from a universal basic income, which would provide payments for an entire population.
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I just dont get this thing with “artists”, if you cant get people to buy your art, buy your albuns, buy a ticket to your show then you are not an artist, you are just an entertainer of yourself! If my company cant sell their product will the government give us 1500£ too? its the same thing, if my product is shit i wont sell, period
I’m not even sure if clarification came come to someone who’s perceived view of “the arts” is already so negatively embedded into a capitalistic hellscape. I was fortunate enough to have an upbringing around artists and schools that encourage expression through the crafts (even in the south, it was a strange/beautiful time).
My suggestion would be to look into Graffiti art if you’re trying to understand the non-commercialized sectors and the impacts they can have on society (link). It’s not always about the work itself, but the inspiration it may cause others as well.
If that doesn’t help, try to think of it in terms of another non-paid sector. Should the government promote FOSS creators with an income if the output improves society as a whole? This is an investment into a society you wish to see, such like education, not a financial statement which needs to show profits at the end of the quarter.
Biggest difference, if your company has a profitable year… who gets the extra income? An artists effect isn’t valued in “capital produced” unless your an art dealer/corporation which is a whole different sector you might be confusing with an actual “artist”. Art begets art, art inspires and motivates dreams and visions, it’s such a long philosophical debate you can see it being drawn out by Plato in The Republic if you had the joy of taking any intro-philosophy classes (you should look into it, you might agree with some of the cases presented).
Lastly, an abundance of art has always been controlled by the wealthy (might be why you view it as a commercialized product).
In previous centuries the power and wealth of monarchs, emperors and other supreme rulers gave them enormous influence over the employment of artists and changes in artistic taste and style. Understandably their portraits are the largest and grandest, and their palaces are the most richly decorated with expensive paintings.
Taxing said wealth, and allowing the people to freely express themselves without the moderation of the wealthy is a step forward from what was previously and currently being used for the artistic pipeline (you must produce the most valued or commercialize-able creations to continue existing). If the monarchs and wealthy of the world can’t convince you that art is important (their art in this instance), I’m not sure how to reach you if it’s just a stubborn personal take you refuse to budge from.
most people don’t do art to make a living. it’s a fun bonus and it is absolutely OK. Now when you’re a professional commercial artist who does commissions and other stuff - yeah, that’s a problem. However, you need to keep in mind that the infrastructure for culture commodification (making money from art) has been broken since the late 90s. There were short periods when the emergence of new tech made it seem like it is almost possible but the window was always too short to capitalize.
So an artists worth is determined by external, financial factors? What?
is determined by results! If you have a song and no one want to ear it are you an artist?
Well, there are plenty of famous artists who only became famous after they died. Contemporary popularity doesn’t guarantee historic/cultural impact.
I’m not aware of the specific requirements of this program, but Iteland also has a case for cultural preservation, particularly with works in the Irish language, which may not have the international appeal necessary to make a good profit but are important for intrinsic reasons to Ireland.
There’s also the case to be made that in order to become a great artist, you must first be a bad artist - and there aren’t that many jobs for internships/apprenticeships in the arts, especially as some of the more “basic” jobs (cheap graphic arts, copywriters, muzak, etc.) are snapped up by AI.
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had about what an artist must have in order to qualify for something like this. I would also be concerned with “antiestablishment” works possibly being excluded.
think there is an interesting discussion to be had about what an artist must have in order to qualify for something like this.
Yes, thats just my point, i agree in some help if, and only if, the artist do some kind of work around their comunity or some pro bono kind of jobs, i dont know how to explain it exactly. But i cant agree pay to an artist that is trying to sell millions of records or have millions of viewers of any kind, because thats not art, its a product he/she is selling. Its and interesting debate indeed
I suppose you could do it a la “The Dispossesed” where you spend one day/week doing community service
A ton of influential and world renowned artists were very unsuccessful during their life.
I feel like this won’t last long (maybe 10 or 15 years), because they’ll end up prioritizing seniors.
Why would a politician prioritize artists when the majority of voters are seniors who want their pensions?
This. The only way this could possibly work is if it’s universal.
1500 bucks. At least you’ll eat while homeless
Reminds me of when Ireland uploaded one of the most ridiculous rap videos ever to their country’s youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8
They’ve always prioritized the arts, mostly because the English have been trying to erase Irish culture for centuries.
It makes perfect since why Ireland would prioritize Irish artists.
One of those guys does the blindboy podcast now, it’s well worth a listen.
Absolute tune, the video is hilarious too.
That video is a work of art.
“mostly because the English have been trying to erase Irish culture for centuries”
What on earth are you on about? Do you think anyone in England is waking up thinking about ways to suppress Irish culture? You do realise that England and Ireland are separate countries now?
Mate I’m English and let me tell you, you have no fecking idea how badly our previous generations have treated the Irish basically from the 12th century up to 1996.
Also feel free to ask the Welsh and Scottish for their takes as well on English suppression of their cultures.
If Ireland wants to invest in it’s cultural capital to expand it’s horizons outside of Whisky, Guinness, St. Patrick, etc. that have been co-opted and stereotyped by the Anglosphere, then good on them!
A good place to start would be checking out Kneecap.
Can’t wait for other new works that Irish artists will create from this investment.
Yes, I guarantee there’s at least one person who wakes up and does have that thought
Have you read like….any history book in your life? Ever? This take is absolutely baffling.
Do you think anyone in England is waking up thinking about ways to suppress Irish culture?
…
When someone says Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, do you think that person is talking about every common Israeli citizen, or specifically the Israeli government?
Like, this confusion is a much larger problem than Ireland/England. So I want to put a good effort into explaining it.
But first we need to get on the same page that the English royal family isn’t even eth ically English, they’re a cadet branch of the old French royalty before the French decapitated all their royals…
So pretty much the only people who’s had to put with the English royal family more than the Irish, are the English commoners. That’s why the English language is such a mess, there was no upper society enforcing rules on it as it grew, because the ruling English didn’t consider themselves English, they were the ruler of the English people.
Their culture was already pretty much erased by the time the English royals starting carrying about “England” and that was mostly just so the English royalty kept their heads. In private they likely don’t see themselves as English so much as as they see England as a representation of them, which is why they try to erase every other culture.
I hope some of that made sense because like I said, it’s important to understand when people criticize a country, they’re almost always referring to the government of said country, and not every last citizen…
Soooo… Not universal?
No…?
The article explains.
Universal means for everyone no?
Doing trials is the way we get data to support UBI for everyone. Saying “If I can’t have it too, no one can,” is how we get a shitty world.
In case anyone wanted info from the Irish Citizens Information Board: [Basic Income for the Arts (BIA) https://share.google/BLpgqipdMH1y42mb1](Basic Income for the Arts (BIA) https://share.google/BLpgqipdMH1y42mb1)
This should be the default for anybody in the world. From there on work if you want more. We are social, economical and technologically capable of doing it. Is the 1% the ones preventing it from happening.
In France, the biggest hurdle is our pension system that stifles education, health, and infrastructure spending but even the electorate wants the boomers to earn more when they already get 110% of what working people do. Still the UK’s triple lock might make them more of a gerantocracy in the future. Also note that if you read the official statistics for pensions in Grance the ones by gov workers are counted towards the budget of said institution. So now 90% of new education spending is actually getting to boomers. 1/4 is already for them. 1/3 of military spending too etc
France is a tax haven for millionaires why do you complain ?
Deeply unserious comment. France is one of the countries in which the system is the most distributive and the taxes the highest.
You fail to mention how fair the taxes and redistribution are, and they are ever more unfair every passing year.
It is very swrious and it is a good reason to tax the rich. And they just decide they shouldn’t.
In Switzerland, 77% of the population voted against. Granted, the 1% may have influenced the voters by spending money on campaigns, or even by creating a narrative over decades. And maybe that proposal was too ambitious. But in the end, it was not just the 1% who voted against but 77%. There is still a lot of skepticism against UBI, despite all the positive evidence.
0.00004% (billionaires over world population), but yeah. Somebody please tell me why we’re using technology to “make money” instead of progressing the human living standard
I want to become an artist and move to Ireland now.
I hope such sentiment on a broad scale doesn’t overwhelm ireland, leading to capitalists saying such a system doesn’t work and nobody ever implementing it again.
UBI has been tried since the 1960s with the results that you describe
Well shite.
Don’t misunderstand, I am for UBI, but historically, it’s been tried over and over, and never heard from again. I suspect the need of the ruling class to watch ants take public transit to perform ritualistic useless “work” is what really drives the economy.
Oh, I did not misunderstand, don’t worry. Still though, shite. And what you’re describing id just another angle on the problem of social construction of value. The thing is though, try a thousand times and it will work once and if people like it, it gets to stay in one form or another. We’ll get there.
I think this is really cool, and I support it. Kudos!
That being said, I don’t think $1500 is enough… but also, how did they even determine $1500 to be the #? This article left me with some questions.
It may not be perfect, but it’s absolutely a step in the right direction. I just need more info to understand more.
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Because making a living out of art is close to impossible, while society as a whole benefits from it
so that they can express ideas without a profit motive?
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You’re not allowed to listen to music, watch movies, read books or look at pictures now. Because they are useless.
Or decorate your home, or paint your walls anything but flat grey, or even wear any clothes that are anything more than utilitarian. Because anything for style is artistic, and therefore useless.
It’s the tech Taliban. Only engineering allowed.
Under this logic Scientists are useless and just waste time with abstract ideas with no real applications. Money should go to blue collar workers who actually build and make the things we consume in an everyday basis. /s
UBI is the answer. More resources for the people, not less.
Can I ask how old you are, and what your parents do/did growing up?
I don’t want to come off as mocking, but it sounds like you don’t understand the role art plays in a functioning society.
Artists explore ideas at the lowest level of a chain of creativity that extends up to scientists and decision makers. In the same way that rocket engineers rely on physicists and chemists to uncover the science that underlies engineering, and physicists and chemists require mathematicians the uncover the math that underlies physics and chemistry, artists essentially research the human condition to allow their society to weigh whether building a rocket is worth doing; where it should go; what it should do; who should be on it; etc.
Our collapsing society could in some part be blamed on the fact that our economic system has failed to fund research into the ideas and social technologies that we need to transition away from obsolete social systems.
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I’d hope no artist or philosopher would be as blinkered as this, or as arrogant. It’s odd how some engineers decide that engineering is the only thing worth bothering with in life, and that all problems are engineering problems of one kind or another. It’s very narrow-minded, and it leads to dangerous political positions with a complete unawareness of the ideology being bought into. I’ve also met engineers who can see more broadly, but it’s definitely a mental trap some fall into.
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That’s pathetic. You’re either an artist or a philosopher. No engineer would be able to write such nonsense
(What no art education does to a mfer)
I’m actually an automation engineer!
Look: it’s fine to be unfamiliar with ideas, but please don’t be rude and stubborn about not knowing something.
You should read Einstein’s writing. Sagan too. If you place technical knowledge as the highest (or only) form of intelligence then maybe they’ll break through for you.
I think you are abstracting and giving too much credit to art. I would define myself as an absolute noob in art though in other fields I am pretty capable and creative. It is all about the desire to do something. And it is not art and philosophy that should be leading our society but logic
artists’ ideas are of the least usefulness.
And what is “usefulness”? Who gets to decide? Art is an essential cure for societal narrow-mindedness.
What is the point of living without art and culture? That sounds like being a worker bee, without any honey.
Usually these people mean “profit”. They can’t see how money alone will not enrich a person.
artists’ ideas are of the least usefulness
That’s debate. It could be your ideas are of the least usefulness. Or mine.
Some people would say art is priceless.
I like art but hate this phrase
art is priceless
What does the phrase mean to you?
Bravo Eire!
Basic income AND a liveable minimum Wage should be mandatory. Our societies have evolved so that we have more than enough of everything already.
This would fix me
I hate being alive.
I don’t know if I would stop working, between my wife and I we currently make a little bit more than that both working full time.
But my mental health would just go through the roof, almost all of my anxiety and depression is rooted in financial instability because I am shit poor at saving and was more interested in skiing than college.
Being able to work part time when I need a break and not fall behind the stupid money driven eat race, I think I would be a lot healthier and happier.
Had this been the US our government and the Far Right would say artists owe them $1500 a month.
“I’d rather be an out of work musician than an out of work pipefitter.” – The Commitments
