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If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you’re dead to me. Friend, family, doesn’t matter.
I wish I could say the same but I can’t bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He’s let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone’s coming out of I’m within earshot… No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here’s a quote saying so from the 90s.
I’ve thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I’m going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it’s bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don’t regret it to this day. I don’t believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I’m not really willing to compromise certain morals.
This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.
I’m cutting them out completely. I can’t stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.
This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don’t visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.
From now on, if you’re a trump supporter or you “sat this one out”, I’m not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.
That’s fine. I have no contact with his entire side of the family except one cousin for that very reason, but my dad isn’t like them. I don’t think he understands that he votes R because his family has always voted R. His vote is really the only thing I dislike about him.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn’t have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he’d have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he’d have gone to the dark side. There’s a real chance I wouldn’t be talking to him right now if he did. I’m glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it’s really nothing for me to do so as well.
Your poor father. You sound insufferable.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It’s why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don’t think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don’t have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than “immigrants bad” or “Eggs expensive” - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that’s what made Obama’s campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message “Change”.
What made you change your mind?
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don’t have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that’s a little less uh painful.
That’s fair…
I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there’s no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.
child rapist, Kate was 12
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn’t.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn’t.
Trump is a creature of consequences.
But also much like most consequences at scale, those that pay the most of the price are not those who brought the consequences on
agree, no argument, just clarifying.
Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.
there would not be many left to govern
Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.
It’s not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.
a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a
politicianfucking president of a huge country
If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
Oligarchy if we’re lucky…
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries’ representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I’m not in the USA. But it’s not like this doesn’t fuck over the rest of the world too.
There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let’s not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.
The GOP has normalized this shit, sadly. That’s why.
if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
I’ve heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don’t succeed, because people don’t want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
I guess it didn’t work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?
Seems pretty easy to avoid.
And Bernie took his goddamn honeymoon in the USSR, I imagine they could have bugged every room he entered if they wanted to.
I guess it didn’t work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?
Both are about as loyal as any Dem foot soldiers you could name. Sanders, in particular, has been at least as zealous on Israel as Biden throughout his career.
Bernie disagrees with the Neoliberal rhetoric and wants to save capitalism from itself. But he’s staunchly partisan.
If anyone could use some Compromat its Manchin
It’s time for Josh Duggar to run for office
Bring out R Kelly
The two of them together make the dream team
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I’m not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it’s a dangerous concept.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
As an example, Trump didn’t get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.
Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don’t fucking matter when real ones aren’t a hurdle to getting elected.
Lol right? Let’s stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let’s stop silencing victims’ stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn’t matter anyway, it doesn’t hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I’m so fucking done with that line of speech now.
it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.
I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.
Perhaps they’ll fragment after he dies? A lot of dictatorships don’t survive the death of the supreme leader
You should already be hopeless considering the current administration is aiding genocide.
Still at it… She lost, dude. Go away.
Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.
I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.
Pardon my ignorance as a non-American, but which out of the four was the option for (possibly) ending the genocide?
but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide
You hoped, “we” didnt “recognize”. If Harris was going to end it she would have said so in the few days before the election. She proved pretty thoroughly that was never going to stop taking that AIPAC money.
This might come as a surprise, but the people opposing the genocide did not magically disappear. Almost like they were not a Russian troll farm but real people with morals and values.
They should, yes. (I’m not American.)
they had every right to be frustrated with how things are, but this will not fix anything and they will find out very quickly. its a shame.
The problem with simply being “frustrated” about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that “something” is fucking fascism, you’re an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
The problem with simply being “frustrated” about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive.
In this case it is not just unproductive, it’s destructive. American voters, especially those who voted for Biden last time chose to stay at home.
Biden administration was stumbling so the voters gave the keys to someone who’s going to cut off both legs.
they will find out very quickly
If they were going to realize it, they would’ve realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They’ll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they’re hating that day.
The shame is that they won’t care. These people will just find another scapegoat and punt the ball down the line.
This tweet assumes people care about OPs opinion, or histories opinion. It’s a toothless threat trying to invoke some Boogeyman of future retribution. Anyone who voted for Trump is going to be doing the Jennifer Lawrence “ok” reaction to this.
I’ve family that voted for Trump. Had plans on spending Thanksgiving there. Told them I’m not coming, and told them why. Explained that I’ll be happy to apologize if the next four years goes well. Otherwise, I’m holding them accountable. I love them, but I will not associate with them.
I’m done with the “they’re family, you have to accept them.” Bullshit.
I warned my wife if her dad makes the mistake of showing his bitch ass face to me again he’s dead, she was smart enough to already know
Fucker already literally threatened my life twice before on top of all the other horrid shit he’s done, and now he knows hes not allowed near his favorite daughter or he’s pig food
Sounds like there’s more there than just voting wrong
And should things turn around and the overwhelming consensus somehow turns against Trump (seems highly unlikely currently), people will just lie about having supported him.
And all the fucking clowns that decided to stay home will still try to claim the moral high ground by claiming they supported neither.
The dnc leadership are the real clowns here. They set up this no-win hostage situation and now the hostages are dead and people want to blame everyone except Biden and Harris for it.
So why bother having you’re own morals and opinions, is what you’re saying.
No thanks.
I’d really like to have 100 randomly chosen Trump voters in a room and interview them to find out how knowledgeable they are about Trump, about his policies, about his first term, about the criminal cases, etc.
My guess is that at least 90% of them are brainwashed. I’m sure there are some that are completely aware of his record and are either single issue voters who are voting only on abortion. Some may be multi-millionaires who are voting just for lower taxes and don’t care about anything else. But, anybody who voted for him because of inflation / the economy has no idea what they’re talking about. Inflation was a worldwide problem and Trump’s policies made / will make it worse. Anybody who voted for him because he’s going to “fix immigration” has no idea what they’re doing because his policies are incoherent and will never work. Anybody who voted for him because of Gaza is an absolute moron because he’s just going to encourage the genocide.
I see these videos on tiktok. You would think it was fun but it’s kinda like talking to a brick. There is no logic.
Trump and his fascists deserve most of the blame, but I fear that liberals won’t learn from this. Realpolitik is bullshit. When you promise to help people but then sell us out to lobbyists and the donor class decade after decade after decade, then people lose all faith in institutions. Facts don’t matter because those facts were used to gaslight time and time again.
The Democrats expended a ton of political capital bailing out the teamsters pensions and they didn’t even earn an endorsement from them.
Arizona had a ton of money and jobs pumped into it with the CHIPS act and it went for Trump.
Delivering on promises and improving people’s material conditions didn’t move the needle at all.
Voters don’t care about policy, they care about the President being a charismatic man who reminds them of their dad.
They didn’t improve people’s material conditions. They did some things that may help in several years, but did fuck all for the suffering people were feeling. They went even further to deny those feelings to people’s face.
I guess you’re right, if you’re a teamster whose pension just got saved, that’s something you won’t appreciate for a dozen or so years.
So clearly, stuff like that is a crapshoot and will never be attempted again. The only thing politicians will do is subsidize purchases for goods and services.
No national healthcare insurance because people won’t appreciate that until they’re sick. So just send out checks for 600 dollars to make things a little easier on people, it’s way cheaper too.
What you see on TikTok are the most entertaining videos. I have no idea if they have to cut out 2% of the videos because they’re not entertaining, or 50% or 98%.
You’re just pitching a story the NYT and the WaPo run regularly. “I heard it on a podcast, I heard it on FOX News, I heard it at church”. That’s the response you get.
Don’t trust liberals to give you the news. Only trust conservatives. Viola! Now you’ll have a strong Republican dogma.
Viola?
I judge you for your literal inability to detect hostility and scams.
We have SO MUCH EVIDENCE that Trump is a Russian asset who Russia has Kompromat on (see American Kompromat by Unger). We are at war with Russia and previously were at war with them for decades. And we don’t think Putin wants revenge? Look at what happened to Navalny.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts. Almost as if he’s a foreign fucking asset harming the US as much as possible in a proxy war. He has a history of violence, abuse, and grifting. How can people be so naive? Literal wolf in wolf’s clothing with neon signs saying “I’m a wolf and I will eat you.”
Both 2024 and 2016 were total punts by the Democratic party, elections that could have easily been won in large margins, but defeat pulled from the jaws of victory in a way that seemingly only they can.
People know if they live in battleground/swing states. And still, the fact is that despite Trump getting FEWER votes than last time (which is an election he LOST, by the way), he WON this time, simply because millions of blue voters in those key states decided they’d rather not vote at ALL, than vote for the Democrats’ candidate.
There is no excuse for the results of either of these elections, honestly. It’s fucking embarrassing.
Don’t forget they almost lost 2020 as well had it not been for covid they definitely would of lost.
If they’d lost in 2020 the Trump nightmare would be ending in a couple months instead of beginning anew.
LOL that you think it would be ending.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts.
See that’s the problem. “Experts” is a bad word to people like this because it makes them feel stupid in and inferior.
That is their problem, of course, but they have made it all our problem.
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An unusual counterpoint. The ‘krompomat’ the Russians wasn’t really proven, and at this stage I think if they threaten him with releasing whatever Trump can just go ‘LOL like I give a fuck. You seen the shit I did to their face? They still voted for me!’
Unger’s book is extensive and quite established. He is a journalist.
And all narcissists care about is their ego. He gives so many fucks.
Many of those people could have been swayed to vote democrat if the democrats fucking addressed the actual fucking issues and actually gave them a damn narrative to go by. Saying everything is fine when nothing is fine and the Republicans are constantly screwing them over (while also 100% deflecting ALL blame elsewhere) is delusional at best.
Also fuck AIPAC.
I’ve done a lot of posts critical of the posture and actions of the Democrat Party and their whole “If you don’t vote you’re voting Trump” propaganda (which are right there in my post history with lots of for and against votes), but as I see it the point being made by this tweet is different.
I don’t read this tweet as being about people who didn’t vote at all because the present day Democrat party, Democrat Candidate and Democrat President’s actions didn’t appeal to them (which is what seems to be responsible for the Democrat loss), I think it’s about people who actually explicitly voted Trump (so, none of that “implictly voting Trump if you don’t vote” bollocks but actually putting their vote on Trump)
And I absolutelly agree with this tweet: that man is a complete total worm - in everything from what he’s done to what he says and even his body language - and on top of that was offering scapegoating and hate as policies.
I can get it that some people couldn’t bring themselves to vote for the Genocidal ethno-Fascist supporting, pro-Oligarchy hard-right Neoliberal, slimy snakesoil salesman liar Democrats, but anybody actually voting Trump is not simply distrusting of or dissapointed with the modern day Democrat Party, they’re active supporters of an even broader and deeper kind of nastiness.
While reading the beginning of this comment, I thought I had actually witnessed a “genocide joe” moron admit they were wrong… But nope.
Never gonna happen, is it?
Clearly in your mind people can only be one of two things: for your tribe and all it stands for or against your tribe and all it stands for.
This is exactly the same simpleton take on human beings and Politics as far-right muppets such as Trumpists have.
It’s not surprising you called me moron: Psychological Projection is also another trait of simpleton tribalists.
Cool, none of them care. They’re all gloating. You can judge people all you want, but they won’t do what you want if they have real power over you. You want to make them care? Get power.
In the course of history, what do we know of those who “judged” the people who won? We don’t know much, nor do we care. How about we focus on winning, then it will matter who we judge.
We’ve already been through this. It’s so very tiring. I’m over it. If you’re a trump supporter, then fuck you. That’s all. Goodbye.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren’t going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
They don’t think rationally, is the problem.
Do you understand how many times we’ve tried this already? They are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lies, and projection.
I’m not saying we need to destroy them or anything, but this shit has gone too far. We need to try way harder to fight back against their hateful, regressive bullshit at this point.
No, the people that voted for Trump in this election will never vote for a non republican candidate regardless of how much you try to appease them. IMO you’re more likely to lose even more voters than you stand to gain taking this approach. The democrats need to come up with a vision and candidate that is neither Harris, Biden, and certainly not anything close to Trump. They need someone that will make non-voters believe that there’s a good chance their life will improve enough to make voting worthwhile.
Remember the time we elected a child rapist twice, pretty cool huh
Let’s do worse next time. A land lord or a cop!
This is the landlord…
That’s where all of the wealth he pissed away came from
Oh yeah, you’re right.
bitch pls. history gonna get over written with trumps magic fucking marker.
It’s gonna be wild to see how different the American history curriculum is inside vs outside of the US in a few years.
Not just history, science, probably math, etc.
They don’t want problem solvers or critical thinking skills, they want to create a class of low skilled, low intelligence, baby breeding, obedient working class people.
The owning class will be educated through private institutions.
This is already how it is. Our public schools are underfunded to the point of being useless. The lack of quality public education is how you end up with this many idiots voting for trump in the first place.
That, and religious indoctrination destroying any chance they had at developing critical thinking skills.
There will be concepts of curriculum 🫲🍊🫱
Please. It is a half eaten crayon.
My plan is to simply avoid ALL contact with MAGAs unless I’m forced to work with them. The same way you would avoid a meth-addled pit bull.
I’m not going to let them think their point of view is “fine” by pretending to be civil to them. It’s not.
Well… I do judge them for their choice in political party when that party’s entire platform is built up on those things.
My unfortunate observation is the majority of people who voted for Trump don’t pay any attention to current events and basically get their news via rumor. But if you want the true culprit, it’s the 15 million Democrats that voted last time but not this time. The votes for Trump actually went down compared to last time.
I fit was a few million less I would blame voter suppression via things like purging voter rolls. But the drop is so drastic it is clear the problem is that at least 10+ million people simply chose not to vote against an obvious threat to the country because the Dem candidate for President wasn’t appealing enough.
Yea that’s what they’re saying isn’t it. 15 million people vanished out of thin air. Interesting
Well 114 million people who could have voted this year didn’t. It’s a combination of apathy and laziness. We could be like Australia and mandate the vote.
It would be such a game changer for the US, there are still people who ‘donkey vote’ which is either leaving a ballot empty or drawing dicks on it, but it means a far more balanced political spectrum.
Republicans won’t allow it. They win when people don’t vote, it’s a fact. They now dominate the legislative, so you can forget about it.
The real solution is to raise the interest of people in politics. Look at the south.
Yeah I don’t believe that for a fucking second to be honest with you, and I’m finding it difficult to not go insane with conspiracy theories about MAGA fucking with the vote counts, and becoming the same person I made fun of surrounding Jan 6 - except he has a proven record of being a cheat and all but outright stated his intent to cheat the election. I’m kind of dumbfounded that 3 hours after voting night closes the major news outlets are all reporting a Trump win which they couldn’t possibly know yet, everyone takes this as fact and refuses to investigate any further. Official vote tally and certification isn’t even until mid December by the usual schedule according to .gov sources.
Is it not just a little bit ridiculous to anyone else that in one of the most relentlessly politicized elections of the past century 15+ million people who voted last time suddenly didn’t? 15 million people predominantly of the denominations that Trump and his goons particularly hate and wanted to silence? For that matter does anyone else find it strange that 45% of Latinos voted to deport themselves? I mean, some percentage I could expect, even up to like 20, I’d be disappointed but I’d understand, but 45%??
I am most certainly on some amount of copium here but I am incredibly surprised at the lack of any sort of investigation or push back or god damn anything surrounding what should certainly be contested results, at the very least. This feels very very fishy to me.
5 million trump voters didn’t vote this time around.
Ap news had a good article about how our voting machines are completely vulnerable to first hand attacks. I think they figured out how to do it. They had a LOT of help.
That could be an explanation if there wasn’t a massive drop in turnout, which has a paper trail.
Turnout is irrelevant when the ability to hack the machines is well known. https://apnews.com/article/election-security-voting-machines-software-2024-80a23479d8a767ba9333b2324c4e424b
Paper trail.
Hacking the machines would be useful for complaints that the counts weren’t accurate, but wouldn’t affect turnout. Republicans got the numbers they were expected to get, the lack of turnout hurt the Dems like it always does.
I agree. Let’s do a paper ballot recount. See if they match what the machines say.
The religious fanatic psychopaths behind the scenes of MAGA, if successful in their goals, will ensure there is no history.
Dark times is an understatement.
