“It’s safe to say that the people who volunteered to “shape” the initiative want it dead and buried. Of the 52 responses at the time of writing, all rejected the idea and asked Mozilla to stop shoving AI features into Firefox.”
Hey all, just a reminder to keep the community rules in mind when commenting on this thread. Criticism in any direction is fine, but please maintain your civility and don’t stoop to ad-hominem etc. Thanks.
deleted by creator
If it can be proven that an LLM bot account is present on the instance masquerading as a human user, I would recommend you report the account for that reason/spam so that it can be investigated and removed per instance rule 4 after evidence is found.
Since they aren’t people, I’d say it’s pointless to reply to them with ad-hominem in the first place since it means nothing to them, and therefore reporting it would be the more effective action to take in any event.
don’t stoop to ad-hominem
At this point Ad-hominem is practically the nice name for the business model “enshitification”.
ai can be good as long as you don’t let it think for you. i think the problem is taking resources from development and building into a browser would could just be a bookmark to a webpage.
why don’t they just instead put vivaldi’s web panel sidebar into firefox so you can just add chatgpt or whatever as a web panel. i think that would be infinitely more useful (and can be used for other sites other than ai assistants).
ai can be good as long as you don’t let it think for you
Unfortunately, there’s too many people already doing that, with not so clever results!
If it increases accessibility for those with additional requirements then great but we know that’s not even in its top 10 reasons for being implemented
Don’t they already have that last thing you mentioned?
it’s an addon but not baked in (not to the point like vivaldi where you can add any web panel as a url and have it display in the sidebar)
deleted by creator
When I want AI, I use this: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=DuckDuckGo+AI+Chat&ia=chat&duckai=1
My worry about AI built into my browser is that it’ll be turned into data mining, training, and revenue generation resulting in exploitation and manipulation of me.
My worry about AI built into my browser is that it’ll be turned into data mining, training, and revenue generation
Isn’t the AI Mozilla is talking about all run locally?
I’ll be honest, I do not know, but I’m always more worried about where it’ll end-up over where it is right now. Even if it is all local for now, it is a small tweak for that to change. Just a small decision by a few people and everything changes. I don’t have enough trust to believe that decision won’t be made.
I noticed that too! I will never use it.
We see a lot of promise in AI browser features making your online experience smoother, more helpful, and free from the everyday disruptions that break your flow
I don’t really see AI and LLMs as a solution there. Things that disrupt are typically ads or other capitalist nonsense. What are they thinking and how will AI help?
If you don’t like AI window, don’t use AI window. I don’t see the problem.
Except if AI Window turns out to be another resident subprocess that eats 4GB of ram in the background
Is that what it’s doing?
I haven’t heard about it anywhere. But considering Firefox’s history with memory handling and considering the feature in question, I’m calling it. I’m reasonably sure that’s how it’s going to turn out
I don’t see any technical background about it. Just a marketing spiel
Opt-in
??
What does being opt-in or opt-out have to do with resource consumption? It will still consume resources even if you’re not using it. It might even reserve memory while inactive for faster startup by default.
Even if you completely disable it, just having it built into the default binary already consumes resources.
Cannot wait for Servo & LadyBird to take off
I’m thoroughly sick of Mozilla’s shit.
Personally I don’t want AI anywhere.
I can think of some uses
But I’m feeling really sadistic today, and it mostly just boils down to ‘forced ‘paranoia’ larp’.
I certainly want it. The current anti-AI wave is irrational.
That isn’t to say that AI is not a major potential existential problem when it goes to AGI and to ASI, or that AI in the hands of private Oligarch psychos are not a catastrophe, but the current hatred is of a different kind, are off the charts, actually evil, and have no relation to the tool it self, or the potential existential risks. The group have already been consumed by hatred and unfortunately, they are now also attacking ordinary Lemmy users that ‘admit’ that they use AI, or ‘admit’ that they treat it as a ‘friend’. You have all seen this. People just mentioning AI are downvoted and hated upon, people that use AI always get a “AI slop !” remark with them on their way. A large percentage, like this post, are subtly attacking that others even have a choice of utilizing AI in their daily life - because they hate it. This is kinder-garden level bullying !
Most of the daily worries of AI, stems from the societal system we are in. Job loss (It’s build into the current system!), ‘AI’-slop (as if Capitalism didn’t create slop?), ‘Copyright’ idiocy that are only necessary in a combative type of society, AI+biz out-competing ordinary people, becoming poor, homeless etc, big monetary/political powers consolidating more power by misusing AI, an incredible amount of propaganda/marketing and manipulation and so on. The old system is incompatible with AI, so people are seeing things go in a wrong way, and feeling the cracks and dissonance between an old failing system, and the new possibilities we have. We - humanity - are in a transitional phase, where the old systems we follow, are no longer adequate, and will implode/convulse in to a new stable system. But the old system is stubbornly trying to keep going, while not having any answers, or any will, to adapt or even discuss the internal dissonance that are accelerating. THAT is the problem! Almost all current ‘AI’ problems that result in this hate backlash - comes directly from the failing type of society we have - not the tool/technology it self ! People should focus on the root-problem, not the tool it-self, and certainly not other users that need it.
This whole group of angry people need to chill tf out and admit to them selves that they are mis-directing their hatred (valid or not), and that their hate are currently harming other ordinary people - not much different from them selves. Stop bullying others just because you can’t handle the inherent failings of the old crap system, a system build on pure combative ideology, “by the oligarchs, for the oligarchs”. Stop fighting for ‘Jobs’, and start fighting for a system where we don’t need ‘Jobs’, Stop fighting for ‘Copyright’, or any of the other insane protectionist ‘patches’ to the current bunkers society/ideology, and start fighting for a society where we don’t have to hoard ‘property’ to survive. Fight for a society that are compatible with where we are technologically/philosophically, one that are actually designed/intended to be compatible with peoples needs and their humble wishes for a safe and stimulating future.
Lastly, being worried/focused on an ASI takeover of humanity, or common people being (more) controlled by the Oligarchs/Big Corp, etc, is completely legit, and it absolutely needs to be talked about, but this group of haters is just hating ‘AI’ and people using it in general, for the wrong reasons, and then lashing out towards those people that enjoy/need it now. (Good for you if you don’t need it in this society).
This bullying has to stop. In the mean time, I and many others, are starting to use current AI to design/build systems that bring us all over this ideological molasses we are in, and land us on the other side as fast and safely as we can. You should probably do the same instead of being consumed by anger, but that is your choice to make. Thanks for reading.
In the mean time, I and many others, are starting to use current AI to design/build systems that bring us all over this ideological molasses we are in
Gee wiz mister are you a REAL prompt engineer? No foolin?
Removed by mod
Ok. Then please answer this because it’s driving me crazy: what problem does adding AI to Firefox solve?
I agree with you, for what it’s worth.
I agree with your points. AI is a tool just like hammers and word processors. It shows a lot of promise because people can solve problems in ways that other tools cannot.
Efficiencies come later, and hating on the tool because it’s immature just means you’re probably further out on the technology adoption curve or have different use cases.
All great evils have been perpetrates by ordinary people. Ita really not a mollification to say you’re just engaging in this hugely deatructive trend as an ordinary person.
Why not just distribute a separate build and call it “Firefox AI Edition” or something? Making this available in the base binary is a big mistake. At least doing so immediately and without testing the waters.
There is a Firefox Developer’s Edition so I don’t see why not? I personally don’t care to see them waste the time on AI features.
Those unhappy have another option: use an AI‑free Firefox fork such as LibreWolf, Waterfox, or Zen Browser.
Any idea as to when LibreWolf will be coming out with a mobile browser?
I’ve used the duckduckgo browser for a bit which is nice. You can disable all of the AI features there.
Just be aware that DDG uses Microsoft’s Bing on it’s backend.
Those unhappy have another option: use an AI‑free Firefox fork such as LibreWolf, Waterfox, or Zen Browser.
And I have taken that other option.
Also: Vanadium and/or Ironfox on Android.
A fork is great, but the more a fork deviates, the more issues there are likely to be. Firefox is already at low enough numbers that it’s not really sustainable.
Then Mozilla should start listening to their users instead of driving them away. I know I stopped using Firefox after being a regular user since launch because the AI nonsense became the last sta straw.
Yes but we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
The good is other rendering engines currently in the works.
What do you mean by “we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good”? Why should I use a browser which is actively anti-user when there are better alternatives out there?
There aren’t better alternatives, and the ai shit is all easy to disable.
Disabling it is one more thing to fingerprint me on.
It serves literally no purpose for any intelligent person.
There aren’t better alternatives
They are literally mentioned in the article:
Those unhappy have another option: use an AI‑free Firefox fork such as LibreWolf, Waterfox, or Zen Browser.
- https://manualdousuario.net/en/mozilla-firefox-window-ai/.
Well, the first two essentially are Firefox and the latter is very immature to the point that I doubt you could reliably use it. It’s in beta.
ai shit is all easy to disable
Users don’t have to disable it. Just give them a browser where they’re not enabled by default!
To my knowledge that literally only exists in the form of a Firefox fork like Librewolf. Which takes more effort to switch to than simply disabling a couple values in config.
Then Mozilla should start listening to their users instead of driving them away.
I think the hope is to get more people in than losing them. But with Ai nobody will stay forever, because the time someone else makes a better Ai tool, they switch. Because Mozilla loses personality and uniqueness and start getting replaceable. … just like employees who are forced to use Ai instead their own work and knowledge.
My two biggest issues with a fork are: a) timely updates, they take a bit longer than the main version, and b) trust issues, I don’t trust most forks.
Try Phoenix for Firefox https://github.com/celenityy/Phoenix
The more AI is being pushed into my face, the more it pisses me off.
Mozilla could have made an extension and promote it on their extension store. Rather than adding cruft to their browser and turning it on by default.
The list of things to turn off to get a pleasant experience in Firefox is getting longer by the day. Not as bad as chrome, but still.
Oh this triggers me. There have been multiple good suggestions for Firefox in the past that are closed with nofix as “this can be provided by the community as an add-on”. Yet they shove the crappiest crap into the main browser now.
Switching to de-Mozilla’d Firefox (Waterfox) is as simple as copying your profile folder from FF to WF. Everything transfers over, and I mean everything. No mozilla corp, no opting out of shit in menus at all.
Rather than adding cruft to their browser and turning it on by default.
The second paragraph of the article:
The post stresses the feature will be opt-in and that the user “is in control.”
That being said, I agree with you that they should have made it an extension if they really wanted to make sure the user “is in control.”
So much whining… Please get to know the things you attack, before you embarrass yourself.
Do you know what a “build in AI” is? It’s just some algorithms that makes your day easier. And no one steals your data… sigh
It’s a local collection of algorithms, and you are quite safe. You probably already use it in so many ways you can’t count them - it’s just not called “AI” which I guess is the trigger word for you…
So much whining… Please get to know the things you attack, before you embarrass yourself.
I’m a senior full-stack engineer at a recruitment startup. I’m the one responsible for the AI side of things. We do document analysis of résumés and all kinds of identification documents and photos. We also run various assistant chatbots that interact with users and accept file uploads, do job interviews and much more. I think I know enough not to embarrass myself.
Do you know what a “build in AI” is? It’s just some algorithms that makes your day easier.
No. A “built-in AI” is not a collection of “magic algorithms” that suddenly make life better. Working with AI is some of the worst hours I’ve ever spent of my life. Writing increasingly convoluted prompts to make it follow explicitly stated instructions for the N-th time in order not to misuse tools or output the correct structured data is not magic. It’s an exercise in futility most of the time.
And no one steals your data… sigh
It’s a local collection of algorithms, and you are quite safe.
So… You’re introducing an autonomous agent between you and the web you’re browsing. With the sole purpose of making decisions and taking actions on your behalf. And this thing is already proven to have the capability to HALLUCINATE.
Aside from all the privacy concerns and assuming that the models actually run locally; all code can have bugs, and worse: this “magic tool” is an amorphous collection of floating point numbers and you can’t debug a neural net’s weights.
If this thing has permission to freely interact with web pages, then sorry, your data will never be safe.
You probably already use it in so many ways you can’t count them - it’s just not called “AI” which I guess is the trigger word for you…
I think you’re the one confusing the terminology.
Oh, you work for Mozilla Firefox, do you?
Being childish and trying to turn what I say into “magic algorithms”
GZ with your made up title, which must be made up, given the crazy ramblings you are making.
The “AI” that Firefox is implementing is not “autonomous” - do look up the definitions, please! It is not sentient, it can’t hallucinate, since it is not sentient. What the big tech are making (their LLM) can’t hallucinate either - they just do something that looks like it, and we put silly terms on it, like hallucinating. You are NOT getting a neural network on your own computer when you install Firefox - now you are just being daft!
You are confused, paranoid and really prove, that you should get to know what you are talking about. sigh
Are you purposefully trolling or just that level of ignorant? I’m done responding here regardless, just curious.
I’ll take that as a no, you are not working for Mozilla. You are being childish by calling it “magic algorithms”. You don’t even know what kind of “AI” FF are talking about…
I would run too, if I were caught in the lies you have spun here.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
So much wtf. Please name one way I use AI without knowing it, and ways that enrage me don’t count.
Using a search engine would be one.
I exclusively use https://noai.duckduckgo.com/
So no.
See my reply to the sibling comment - I wasn’t referring to the “AI summary”.
Nope. The “AI summary” is something I disable on Google and I try to actively avoid it because it enrages me. It’s total dogshit.
The algorithms to determine which pages are most relevant to your query are traditionally seen as AI too. They’re just not labelled as such (which was the point), and predate the current AI hype.
I hadn’t even thought about the “AI modes” that search engines are incorporating nowadays though, so I get the confusion.
That’s a fair point. But search algorithms fall under the “recommender system” umbrella, which are a very different family from the agentic AI we’re discussing here.
Both are AIs, but with very different use cases. In the same way, you could technically classify both your gaming PC and phone as computers, and you’d be correct.
Edit: links
It was my impression that the thread started wasn’t just talking about agentic AI. And I think a lot of the “anti AI folks” here are also angry about recent non-agentic AI additions that Mozilla added, such as e.g. tab recommendations for tab groups.
The post is about the new AI Window feature, and here’s its description from Mozilla’s own announcement:
Now, we’re excited to invite you to help shape the work on our next innovation: an AI Window. It’s a new, intelligent and user-controlled space we’re building in Firefox that lets you chat with an AI assistant and get help while you browse, all on your terms. Completely opt-in, you have full control, and if you try it and find it’s not for you, you can choose to switch it off.
So, definitely agentic.
And I think a lot of the “anti AI folks” here are also angry about recent non-agentic AI additions that Mozilla added, such as e.g. tab recommendations for tab groups.
I’ll speak honestly: I’m not happy with that either. But that’s incidental to this topic. The agentic component is my biggest concern.
Well, then give me a report of everything you use IT for… You phone, apps, tablets, computers, smart tv’s and so forth?
Um, nah… ? I actively avoid half those things and yet use computers constantly. The burden would be on you. So perhaps you can actually give examples that would be true of a lot of people. I feel like you think lemmy users are like most people and just along with what’s popular, but that’s not the case, particularly with computing concerns.
Damn you are not really well, are you? You want me to tell you exactly where you use build in “AI” that helps you make decisions, but you won’t tell me what you use?!? I don’t have to prove anything. My claim stands. I can see that you are using some kind of computer, and the internet. You are using algorithms that act the way AI does… But I guess you are too blind to see… That’s on you. Keep living in your little illusion of a world. 🙃
Damn you are not really well, are you?
Says the person who wants a full inventory of my computing hardware. What a fucking bizarre human.
Well, you wanted me to tell you what AI-like algorithms you were using - and you expect me to do that from no information? You really are not well…
Removed by mod
