I don’t care about spinoff X on IPTV service Y.
I absolutely love the Republic/Imperial Commando series by Karen Traviss which ended in a massive cliffhanger because Disney took over and didn’t allow her to continue.
Fuck Disney, all my homies hate Disney!
There are dozens of us!
I like everything Star Wars. Except the kid’s shows, of course. Didn’t even watch those. But everything else I’ve seen, almost.
Honestly? The kids cartoons are kind of a beacon of good storytelling in Star Wars, nowadays.
Obviously they’re for children, and some arcs are boring filler, so YMMV, but they’re also able to tell these smaller, off the beaten path, stories that you don’t get elsewhere.
I said this in another comment that Star War’s big problem has been that It’s very in love with itself. It’s a self-referential fever dream that feels more like a child smashing their toys together, than a real show.
So ironically, the shows for children don’t have that problem quite so much. For instance, there’s an episode of The Bad Batch where a bunch of miners rise up and kill their boss. That shit rules! That’s a fun story that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe, and isn’t concerned with the fact that it’s Star Wars
When I say kid’s shows, I’m not really talking about The Bad Batch. That show cut deep into me as an adult with my own children. That show is not for kids.
No, I mean more stuff like these template cookie cutter Disney shows, like Star Wars: Young Jedi Adventures. Those are utterly not interesting at all, and I don’t consider them canon for my own sanity of not feeling like I need to watch them. 😄
My kids watched some episodes of that show while I was listening in from the side, and it could’ve just as easily been an episode of literally any other kid’s show, like Paw Patrol or something, but with a Star Wars theme to it. Same basic messages as any American kid’s show. And a bit overly tailored towards an American audience as well, specifically. Not really looking to subject my children to that. 🙅♂️
It’s pretty sad that some of the best, least acclaimed anyways, storytelling was buried into those shows. While everyone else at the time were trying to find them in big-budgeted movie versions and some of the books that got released that ended up being wiped into the ‘Legends’ category by Disney.
I watched all of Legends, and thought it was pretty good. It had a lot of potential, but sometimes they made it just a teensy bit silly where it didn’t need to be because it was aimed at a younger audience I guess. Like situations which should be filled with dread, anguish, etc, had like cartoony yelps instead. Other than that I’m happy to have watched it. Would still recommend to have under your belt. 👍
The last Star Wars movie I enjoyed was Jedi: Survivor.
Ironically, the last Indiana Jones movie I enjoyed was Indiana Jones and the Great Circle.
so you prefer cinematic games to movies? no criticism, that’s just what it looks like. me too.
It’s total happenstance that the best stories told in those worlds have come from game developers. Making those stories interactive as well as cinematic is an entire extra layer of difficulty upon the creative process, and they cleared that hurdle too.
Jedi Survivor even made the struggle of staying human, confronting anger (and the dark side), and the fight for survival far more nuanced and well-written than the third trilogy did.
Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC; it’s all creatively exhausted corporate entertainment product at this point.
It’s a vicious cycle between rabid fans, the creators of the IPs, the outsiders (i.e corporate entities) that have long infected all of them.
I’m tired of reboots, I’m tired of made-up characters that seemingly are shat out from some kid’s imagination but it’s from an actual adult (like difference in the creative department) who only exist just to one-up the already established character. I’m tired of power-level debates that just melts your brain to numbness when trying to even engage in because they all vary wildly. I’m tired of meaningless arguments as to what origin, what canon or whatever is the real timeline of some character because they always change depending on who the hell is writing them.
It’s all gotten entirely tiresome and convoluted.
The next time they reboot superbatspiderman is gonna be better for sure. who doesnt want to see another origin story of fucking spiderman
That’s sounding like Spider-Man: Brand New Day. It technically is just yet another reboot, but a “soft reboot”. Reboot is a reboot nonetheless.
Yeah, I just stopped paying attention altogether. The sequel trilogy is worse than the Holiday Special lol. I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears. The Outlaws game requires an EA account to play. Star Wars is dead to me.
Isn’t Outlaws Ubisoft?
Oh yeah, I confuse them. My bad.
Yes, but regardless, the real LucasArts Outlaws is on GoG.
OH MARRRRSHALLLLLLLL!!!
I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears
Alright, hold up
I like Rogue One, but for the life of me I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One. It’s a decent enough Dirty Dozen riff in a Star Wars Skin Suit, but it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service. It’s nice that it allows some whisps of moral ambiguity into the Rebellion, and it’s absolutely saved by the climactic battle, but I do not get the universal and enthusiastic acclaim.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One.
On its face, its a good movie. I think what put it over the top was the way in which they folded the final scene so neatly into the opening scene of New Hope.
it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service
Eh. Rewatched it recently and I’ll spot that it feels like three shorter films stapled together. But they’re three good movies. I’ll also say that “story that needs to be told” is the absolute wrong philosophy for the Star Wars setting. The show is at its best when its just people bumping around the Galaxy in the shadow of the tentpole events. You could write a Star Wars sitcom that’s just imperial bureaucrats fucking around in the style of The Office and it could be solid gold. Hell, that’s on-and-off what made The Mandalorian so good.
Lucas made a fun setting full of creative little asides and bits of exotic Sci-Fi art that anyone would peel off and do their own thing with. That’s what makes it so great for video games, TTRPGs, EU novels, comedy sketches, amateur art renditions, cosplay… The franchise is this elaborate sandbox full of fun little toys. Just grabbing a few and swinging them around is fun, whether or not you have the whole history of the extended universe committed to heart.
Also, incidentally, what makes “We’re doing the Death Star again” so hack. You don’t need to build a new death star when you can just play with the one you’ve already got. Test firing on Jedha is fun. Running around a construction site full of spare Death Star parts is fun. Rescuing an engineer is fun. Getting stuck in a trash compactor on the detention level is fun.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I don’t think you really have to choose. You also don’t really need to throw $30M at every episode (or whatever Andor’s budget was) to have fun in the setting. One reason I enjoyed Solo so much was in how it got back to that slumming-it style of Star Wars. The little vinette of Han as an imperial commando trying to survive the trenches of some mudhole was perfect Star Wars material and didn’t require a metric fuckton of CGI to pull off.
Yeah out of all the meh Star wars and they go to rogue one? To me there’s only the originals, andor, and rogue one
The mandalorian is solid too.
Up until he gives the dark saber away for no fucking reason at all. That was stupid.
All the people who know how it supposed to be good are left by now. Only those who have no idea how good it used/supposed to be stayed. Nobody else but them cares if they say “it’s good now”. In other words: fanboy echo chamber.
Star Wars were always as stupid as they are now. The only reason you think something changed is that you grew older. Motherfuckers who were like 7 when they listened to I hate sand monologue, believe that sttar wars is supposed to be something other than pew pew lasers in space
It’s a kids movie about space wizards!
That one scene in that one specific movie doesn’t really compare to modern SW movies. Prequels were not as good as original Trilogy mainly due to attempting to be modern style movies. And even original movie had this specific kissing scene that got deleted later for a very peculiar reason. We can complain about each movie. But man, nothing can beat “Somehow, Palpatine returned”.
spoiler
Rogue One was quite good, actually.
"It’s-a clear desa separatists made a pact wesa desa Federation du Trade. Senators, "dellow felagates. In response to this direct threat to the Republic, mesa propose that the senate give immediately emergency powers to the supreme chancellor
This beats somehow returning palatine for sure. But forget that one, the main central guy of all 6 movies turns out to be immaculately conceived by a bunch of medichlorians whatever they are, and y’all are ok with that now. I vividly remember how everyone was up their buttholes about that 20 years ago, but now it’s a great cinema apparently and only new thing bad. And if you think original plot made more sense, your judgement is just clouded by nostalgia, because it was the same nonsense and the same cycle of criticism.
The only reason I dislike somehow palpanite returning more than the rest of the nonsense, is because they fucked up a nice theme about everyone being worthy of force that was beginning to emerge. And this only shows that they actually had a theme going on that could be fucked up.I absolutely love Epsiode 9 and have watched it several times (generally in the background, mind you) because it feels like the creators decided to give up on making an actually good movie and instead double down on camp.
I mean, come on, not only does Palpatine return, but the first quote of the movie is:
The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE.
Absolute camp gold.
Edit: If you strike my comment down, it shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
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I’ve approached Star Wars like, there are pieces of it I really do enjoy and love. Like lightsabers, they’re fucking awesome. Some of the gadgetry, the tech and stuff is fucking awesome.
Everything else like about the whole Force thing, Sith/Jedi philosophies and everything in between, that’s neither here or there for me.
That’s the same approach I’m having with lots of other big, overinflated pop-culture things. I’m here for the appetizers, but not the entire meal.
wait until they spring out a Jedi android with a lightsaber whip and talks like JarJar because someone at Disney wants to bring that dumbass fuckwit back “somehow”.
Me thirty years ago. In 1977 my entire life revolved around Star Wars. Still haven’t seen the last movie
Same. 8 was such a ridiculous clusterfuck of a film that I lost all interest in seeing 9.
You’re not missing much. I’ve see the og movies more times than I can count. I’ve seen the sequels once. They are REALLY bad. Holy shit. I say this as a huge SW fan (I mostly read SW tbh)
Did you have that pop up book?
Is that the one the came with a vinyl for the audio? My dad had one of those that we dug out of my grandma’s basement
I just remember a thick book with thick pages, it popped open to a scene from ANH and you could move some of the things. We also had a blue LP that had the Cantina Band song on it.
Not that I recall. I do have a toy chest full of SW stuff but i don’t think that’s in there
Omg the one that played the cantina music?
;_; Star Wars legends fan, I will continue to resent Disney forever for blighting one of my favorite franchises. But yeah new “Star Wars” content has ceased to excite me. When the acolyte came out and I saw the reviews I was completely unsurprised.
It’s sad. For almost ten years people have argued about what went wrong with Star Wars.
Too many genres? The EU was scattershot and unfocused at times, but never hurt the brand in a significant way. In fact, it led to some great books and games
Too much politics? The villain of TPM is named after Newt Gingrich, and nobody really cared. ANH was inspired by Vietnam, and was still a box office hit.
The fanbase hates (insert minority)? While the internet has magnified the extreme weirdos, all six films have some mix of assertive female leads and non-white characters. Lando blew up the Death Star, Mace Windu was considered second only to Yoda. Every clone, etc. Still had a successful brand. Clone Wars focused hard on the clones and is put above the prequels by many of the hardcore fans. This isn’t to say there aren’t awful people who acted unhinged, but that goes for basically every large group of people in human history, let alone fandoms on the internet.
The answer is quality of writing. The originals were written well, and had coherent world building. The prequels struggled with character writing and general complexity, which is why they are more divisive. Good writing is the difference between the comedy of C-3PO and Jar Jar. It’s the difference between Luke and Rey. And it’s the difference between soul and slop.
The people at Disney either don’t understand this, or don’t care. It is an organization of Nico Harrisons who don’t understand the fundamentals of their industry. This pattern has been repeating across pop culture since the 2010’s, and was blamed on culture war instead of the real issue. It’s a miracle that something like Rogue One or Andor was ever greenlit.
Also, did you know the box office drop-off between 4 and 5 is the same, down to the percentage point, as the drop-off between 7 and 8? And yet, 5 is the most beloved, while 8 had so much backlash that Disney panicked and turned 9 into damage control, instead of working off of 8.
The difference? ESB is well written. TLJ broke space combat entirely for a cool visual. I don’t want to absolve TFA, which gets off way too easy because of what followed, but this comment is already too long…
I dunno if Disney cares much about the writing so long as the property makes money. It’s hard to determine the cash return on streaming shows, though the viewership numbers definitely point towards a trend. Disney likes to characterize the production process as a product in an of itself, but subscribers are unlikely don’t translate that into viewership past the first couple episodes 🤷♂️
It wasn’t just panic over fan backlash that made them screw up 9. 8 basically left them nothing to work with to get to the ending they wanted. Especially with the tragic loss of Carrie Fisher, who was meant to be the central character of 9.
That was down to a critical lack of planning.
the difference is only that toxic fandom has the bullhorn of the internet now. that’s it. that’s the only difference.
No, that’s the shitty excuse Disney executives like to hide behind. “PEOPLE ARE JUST MAD WE FEATURED A WOMAN/BLACK PERSON/GAY COUPLE!”
No, people are mad because your writing is shit. Most people are actually A-OK with minority characters, as long as you give them a reason to like the characters. (Except China, but Disney knew that so they made sure they didn’t feature the problematic black character over there). Make them interesting, don’t make them a Mary Sue, don’t build their plot up only to yank it away at the last second and turn them into just another background character.
But no, Disney can’t do that because they are terrified of trying new things. So they made the blandest, most milquetoast, characters possible and made the plot Baby’s-First-Starwars in the first sequel, took what the fans loved about Star Wars and literally burnt it in front of them in the second sequel (while telling fans they were stupid to ever like that part of Star Wars in the first place), and then backtracked HARD into Baby’s-First-Starwars again in the third sequel when they were shocked to discover that fans didn’t like being insulted.
So many issues with the sequels, complete corporate ignorance to just chalk it up to a “toxic fandom”.
whomever you’re talking to, it isn’t me.
It sure is! Don’t get mad when someone holds a mirror up to you making the same pathetic excuses Disney does for their failures.
i’m sorry you’re so confused. i hope you find peace.
Nope, I remember the absolute vitriol directed at the George Lucas-written prequels, and even actors themselves; and Disney wasn’t involved in those.
2009 was more than a decade ago, but I remember the Red Letter Media review like it was yesterday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Letter_Media
All that great writing and you chose to use acronyms instead of spelling the words.
Yeah, its all mostly meh. The originals were great mostly because I was a kid. Prequels were trash, but 3 was the worst of them. 7 was only better because it looked like they were going back to the roots of SW. 8 and 9 were absolute trash. S1 of Andor and Mando were some of the best stuff they’ve done in that universe. The rest of it adds very little value at all.
That said, the universe itself is rich and interesting and I wish there was more content that dives into it. KOTOR was my favorite entry in the universe overall and arguably has the best writing.
Also, I would still love to see a buddy cop sitcom set in some metropolitan planet. Think Brooklyn 99 in space. Doesn’t even have to be SW. I just want this show.
Prequels were trash, but 3 was the worst of them.
TWO was the worst of them, IMHO, but you deserve credit for realizing that 3 is overrated and a saber battle with lava and a bunch of good guys dying just makes it dark, not good. It has every issue that 1 and 2 do, and adds a few new ones.
Dial back Jar Jar, age Anakin up 5 years, and accept that Liam Neeson is the lead, and you’ve got a halfway decent Star War.
Q: Why did Qui-Gon lose to Maul? A: He was tired from carrying the whole movie.Two is only “better” due to the fact it was entirely unmemorable. I recall something about a cloning facility on a water world and some robot guy that wasn’t a robot.
The worst sin in three IMHO was belaboring every little plot point to connect up to four. It was brutal to watch. In many ways it reminded me of the “writing” for the last season of GoT.
belaboring every little plot point to connect up to four
That would be one of the “new ones” I was thinking of, and they didn’t even do it well. Leia remembers her real mother, explicitly in the script, so Lucas just says, “nah… it’d feel cooler if she died in childbirth.” Make the nerds hand-wave something about the Force until I can rewrite and re-film Ep6.
Most of these nerd fandoms are desperately throwing money at endless inept projects until it finally gets less shitty.
There’s so much SW stuff that is complete trash.
The thing is, Disney made more shit instead of making less good quality. They just hoped something would stick. It’s what they do best.
I’m glad they got caught up in the streaming wars so they threw a ton of money around. There is zero chance that they will ever make something like Andor again.
Never gave a fuck never will, I even dont care if matrix 2 is good or any remake
I don’t think anyone hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
