I hear these comments for not wanting to help people, and it feels like we’re worshipping individuality to the detriment of community, which is necessary for survival.
- “I don’t want my money going to ___ .”
- “This is not a democracy, it’s a constitutional republic!”
- “You don’t have any freedoms under socialism/communism.”
- “They’re just looking for a handout because they’re lazy.”
- “I’m a self-made man. I didn’t need anyone’s help.”
- “Empathy is not a virtue.”
- “I don’t see how that’s my problem.”
I personally think people who do things because they fear retribution from sky daddy are the weakest of minds easily exploited by propaganda. Religious thought leads to malleable minds easily exploitable by religious leaders.
Religion is not the source of our social bounds and morality rather a parasite of control left over from ancient times. A vestigial organ that no longer has a use in the face of science but lives on in the body regardless.
I would say all magical thinking does this. This is why I say that things like astrology and homeopathy are not “harmless” but are rather actively harming the fabric of society by being accepted.
Not the person you’re replying to, but I’m an atheist or an agnostic and even I’m not so sure about that.
When given the idea that there is no retribution or reprocussion for their actions, many people become nihilistic and act terribly.
I agree that it’s weak to need a “sky daddy” to act properly, but many people are weak.
This is what you call a sociopath. If you need fear of eternal retribution in order to not do awful things, then you’re just a piece of shit.
There is good scientific evidence that people do not think about the consequences of their actions before they commit to them.
Criminals don’t think of the punishment they will receive by society but suddenly a far removed sky daddy will convince them not to rob a store? This is not how any of this works.
Morality is developed by our social bounds, otherwise every agnostic or atheist would be wildly out of control.
People are mentally weak because of religion, not despite it. It is the antithesis to critical thinking. The lack of critical thought is why our society is so easy to control.
I have seen this play out countless times in my life where people realize how fucked up their religion was once they have left it.
As their eyes open and they realize that they were being controlled by their religious leaders who abused them, they have to wrestle with the life that was stolen from them.
I am even to the point now where I no longer believe certain people need religion anymore. They need community and a sense of belonging and religious leaders like to highjack that basic need for their own selfish interests.
I think I agree with basically everything you’ve said here and especially this conclusion. The problem is that for many the only type of these things they can find is couched in religion. As a child-free atheist, I basically have no sense of belonging nor a community.
In addition, some people’s only exposure to even the very concept of morality or ethics comes through religion.
You have a community here which is probably more real and fulfilling than going to a church service. Here we are having a discussion you would never get in a typical church. We are both thinking together, discussing, without any authority to tell us otherwise.
Our sense of right and wrong simply don’t come from religion. It initially comes from our familial bounds but is reinforced through our many interactions with our social groups.
You can see this in gangsters that believe in God, but also will deal drugs and shoot each other. Their morality is determined by their social group, not their belief in religion.
As I said. I used to believe like you that religion is needed by some people, but I have begun to doubt this premise.
You’re confusing people who say they are/consider themselves A and do/are A with those who aren’t. You understand religion as a superficial, decorative thing because that’s the way it has been in the West since at least the days of Nietzsche, and as such their moral relativism is not surprising at all (ethics are belief/self-determination, check is-ought problem on wiki). Doomsider, I have walked your path, I just started earlier and I’m probably older as well. Your vitriolic gut reaction has to do more with your perception of religion and religious people in a Roman Catholic plus offshoots setting (or just some hypocrites from whatever religious group) than it has to do with belief and monotheism itself, your disappointment is expected. But you haven’t gotten it, you don’t understand what it actually means to believe in something and live your life accordingly in a similar way you understand gravity and don’t jump out of windows. Take care, merry winter solstice! 👋
Religion is a superficial decoration in modern times. My ancestors true religion was taken from them by sword point. Convert or die, so pardon me if I view modern religion through the lense of conquerors and manipulators.
Argue, I have been married for almost thirty years. I was in your frame of mind back when I was a teenager. I spent decades studying all religions and I still do to this day. I am under no more false illusions or pretenses and have spent a long time deprogramming myself.
I am very satisfied where I have landed and I will not give credence where it does not belong.
But that’s you and your great interest in religion which probably stems from a need for something more from life than just empty pleasure, which probably means you value ideas and consistency more than others. As long as you move righteously, idc how you got there and I’m not even the tiniest amount against whatever you believe in if the outcomes are great and similar to what I’m preaching about, but if you don’t see how the vast majority of people aren’t like that and don’t think about it for even a second, and how belief acts as a safeguard, a rail you hold onto when temptation is great, then idk, you lack appreciation for it, I guess.
Also, my ancestors were also murdered with a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other but it doesn’t mean the message of Jesus or the mere concept of objective moral duty that Moses brought about/popularized aren’t highly valuable. Jesus wasn’t the killer, nor is he a MAGA hellbound dog beating brown people up and trafficking them like ICE and the so-called religious American government and elites, lol.
Like I said, I thought like you many years ago and I have grown so much since then.
Christianity is a bad copy of other religions that came before it. Christ himself was a cultist preaching resurrection on Earth. The end of his story was just his fellow cultists trying to make his lies a reality.
It is a strange tale for sure and I study it out of morbid curiosity rather than seeking a higher truth like I once did long ago.
I wish you luck on your journey.