I don’t encounter a lot of ads but I was just listening to the Economist talk about this one which the trump campaign played over and over again and it struck me as a small window of an answer to your question.
The ad strikes me as cruel but the thrust (and I imagine there’s a blend of fact and fiction) is that Harris used tax money to pay for a woman’s sex change after being convicted of first degree murder and serving life in prison. They also have Harris saying she was using her power to “push forward the movement and the agenda.”
Even for supporters of trans rights, I imagine not everyone loves having to defend using tax money to pay for expensive gender surgery, especially on criminals.
So I could see people, who might otherwise be supportive of trans folks in their own lives, being “against trans people” on an issue framed like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BXYjoAzq0&ab_channel=TheJimHeathChannel
Conservatives are afraid of change, because they control current status quo. They can’t let people escape from that control, so every nail that is a little outside it’s hole gets hammered.
In short, they rather prefer trans (and broadly queers) to hide or die, unless they can control them. Everyone different from what they can control is a big danger. Imagine if everyone could be like they feel like? Conservatives see this as chaos, they are the guardians of peace and good values, so anything not already controlled by them is the opposite, chaos, destruction, fire.
That’s why they rarely present anything new, their policies and general opinion tend to fight the natural evolution of civilization. USA, as obviously all of the American Continent, was built by immigrants (and slaves). Now they fight immigrants, undocumented ones mostly, because they can’t control them. And we know what happened when ‘the libs’ back then tried to end slavery, you know, other people that they CONTROLLED.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
I think most commenters here are missing the point.
There is a more extreme reaction to transgender people as opposed to gay or lesbian people, because of issues like sports and bathrooms. And that hits at people’s sense of injustice. For example if you have a young daughter, a lot of people will hate the idea of a person with a penis going into the women’s room and being around there little girl. Or if that daughter grows up and joins a sports team, the idea of somebody who is hormonally male and thus naturally more muscular competing against your daughter is unpleasant.
Put differently, I think a lot of people we now classify as ‘transphobic’ don’t actually have much problem with trans people themselves. Rather, with how the efforts to ensure trans people receive the full treatment of their chosen gender can affect the rest of society.
For me personally, I don’t know what the answer is. I generally don’t care which bathroom you use as long as you wash your hands. I have no problem with anyone presenting themselves to the world as whatever they wish, if it makes you happier than by all means. At the same time though, I don’t think it’s transphobic to point out that somebody who is largely or entirely biologically male will have a natural competitive advantage in the field of sports.
So while I certainly don’t want to exclude anybody, I think there is at least a little justification for restricting some women’s sports to those who are genetically female.I think the part people don’t realize is that like a lot of top athletes just have oddities - higher muscle building hormones, circulatory systems that work better under stress, more cellular receptors for triggering muscle building etc. And at the same time sex hormones aren’t the only chemicals that affect these things so there’s also a plethora of performance enhancing drugs cascading out of labs at the same time which is genuinely pumping out hulked up muscle freaks (see Liver King’s 12k steroid shots per month scandal)
At some point it would just make more sense to just classify sports by weight and build and remove the genital inspection element.
I think that one thing you and other centrists are missing is that any kind of regulation isn’t just a regulation on trans women, it’s a regulation on ALL women. It won’t be just trans women that will be put in a position of constantly having their genitals checked.
Be it for bathrooms, sports, whatever, you’re opening us up to a world where anyone that fancies themselves an authority will feel empowered to sexually assault any women they want. That’s what’s at stake here. This is a women’s issue, not just a trans issue. Hell, even men will end up getting harassed in bathrooms.
Meanwhile, actual trans people are going to by and large steer clear of segregated contact sports like they’ve always done, feeling the pain of exclusion and marginalization while deserving none of it.
I think I’ve heard there are a lot of genetically male, but born female people in sports. I wonder if the same people are against those people playing in sports.
Idk how many transphobic people just care about specific issues. There’s a lot of “groomer” rhetoric, hate, and general disgust. It’s easy to get people to hate what they don’t understand; and a lot of media is trying their hardest to cultivate hate against trans people to create an out-group, so they can control the in-group.
create an out-group so they can control the in-group
That’s not just the media. It’s basically everyone in power. Media, politics, government, corporations… Everyone.
It applies to the Democrats too. Especially in the 2016 election, they managed to successfully make Republicans the out-group. But I believe that was hugely damaging to the country, it created a lot more division when what is really needed is unity to focus on the issues that most people can agree on.
Because here’s the cold truth- there is a body of policies that probably 80% of Americans would agree on. Things like efficient government, ending government corruption, reducing corporate control over government and elections, reducing income inequality, etc.
To quote Dylan Ratigan’s famous rant, the United States is being extracted. And I think most people would like to stop that extraction.
But no major candidate stands for that. Bernie did, but the DNC iced him out because their wealthy corporate donors didn’t want Bernie.And that in my opinion is why Trump won. Harris certainly didn’t push any major message of radical reform, just a bunch of the usual ‘help the middle class’ talk. Trump may be terrifying, but he does push a message of radical reform and changing the system.
To write that off and say half the country is racist or misogynist is to avoid learning from this situation.
LoL at thinking Republicans don’t want people with Penises in their Daughter’s Restroom! Conservatives are LITERALLY making it ILLEGAL for people with Penises and Beards to use anything BUT their Daughter’s Restroom!
I don’t think anyone really cares about sports or bathrooms when it comes down to it It’s all about the patriarchy. Not a single person I’ve met has mentioned a woman who became a man going into a men’s restroom as a problem. Or them entering mens sports outside of the dimly vieled “oh well they could get hurt and a man needs to protect them from making their own decisions”
It all comes back to people thinking men have to take care of women because they can’t take care of themselves without assistance.
It is a reflection of how weak the people who think such are. And projecting and trying to control others lives because they don’t believe they can take care of themselves.
If you believe in people having freedom, stop trying to fucking chain them to your ideals. (Not aimed at you specifically)
There is no patriarchy involved though? Even women actively campaign against trans male participation in women sports.
Just take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/i39VHDmawtw
There are no men involved. Just women, so your argument doesn’t track
Yes, women can be victims of patriarchy brainwashing.
There are working people who voted for the capitalist party.
Same shit.
A YouTube video of Donald Trump talking on Fox News is your evidence that no men are invoved in having something against trans people. That tracks
🤨. Are you being intentionally obtuse or what?
Not at all. Thats the subject of the thread. Why are people, mainly conservatives, against trans people. And you posted a link to a White Male Conservative on a Conservative platform speaking against some stupid shit that doesn’t matter, and saying men aren’t involved.
The NCAA is a business. If you believe in a free market, then don’t make laws to dictate their rules. If people actually care they’ll stop buying that product and someone will start a new league with different rules and people can participate there.
If anything, do the country a favor and ban official sports teams from the education system. And people can join leagues outside of the college and it will help get education better suited. Scholarships should be for educating future minds to create a better future, not wasted on someone who isnt there for an education. The amount of corruption in schools do to sports in way to high.
Bro hates Trump so much that he didn’t watch past the first 5 seconds💀.
I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed. You made the argument that the reason people are against trans people is majorly due to the patriarchy, and i linked to an example of a female volleyball team refusing to play a trans team as a direct rebuttal to that point. A rebuttal you would’ve understood if you had gotten over your Trump hate and low attention span to watch the entire video.
“I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed”
Proceeds to say I have a short attention span. Yeah there is no way I’m sitting through anything that Fox News broadcasts.
Well you have to understand everyone takes it as settled science to varying degrees.
Some think theres nothing left to learn, all settled and people need to stop asking questions and just agree. On the other end are those who think its pure fantasy and that, since its not science at all, must be being used as a tool against children.
I’m not sure how big those two ends are, but theres the people in the middle too, who think there is likely something going on here but aren’t sold on the current implementation. Some are hesitant and want more time and research. Some are concerned that societal pressure is trumping doctors advice.
Maybe theres some other group I’m not thinking of but either way, the angriest group isnt always the biggest, but will be loudest. That might skew your perceptions of how people generally feel on average.
Because people don’t shut up about it.
They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.
A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).
I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that’s what they thought and that’s where they stopped.
But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.
The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can’t they just fuck off and let people be how they want?
It’s extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they’re not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.
Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.
In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.
Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.
Yes! Screw the patriarchy
Meh, I don’t know if it’s strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it’s probably more “just” a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don’t like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I’m just speculating, here.
I can also see the sexual panic aspect.
That’s cuz it isn’t hierarchy, it’s tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.
If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they’re the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.
If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.
(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)
Removed by mod
I don’t agree. For ages in any life or death situation it is woman and children first. Men are the strongest of the bunch, any respectable man is putting his children and wife onto a lifeboat before themselves. You’d have a hard time finding a father/husband who wouldn’t.
Your little scenario explicitly presumes that the man would be the one in charge, making this decision.
Who else would be in charge of a man making the decision to let others go ahead of himself? It is a self made decision, and a selfless one. So of course he is the one making the decision. A woman could just as easily make this decision, if she did would you still be saying “well of course she did, she’s the one on charge!”. I hope not. You just don’t like the fact that when shit hits the fan, oftentimes men are the ones who step up and help others and even sacrifice themselves. Have whatever qualms you will with men, but at least give them credit where they deserve it.
You will never succeed trying to get through to the woketivists
Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.
Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn’t care less.
Never met a school church shooter either.
Most conservatives I know think it’s dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don’t know what gender really means because they haven’t experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it’s the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.
To them I say:
- If I’m old enough to be disfigured by puberty, I’m old enough for HRT.
- A trans child is a blessing, deserving of the choice to avoid a puberty they are telling you they do not want.
Except for the fact that puberty is an actual thing that occurs without outside influence. HRT isn’t
Disclaimer: the obligation should not fall on a marginalized person to educate those ignorant. As such, when i have patiently done so, and I get met with “UH ACTUALLY DEBATE ME BRO”, I meet their bad faith and pseudoscience with “ok nazi, get blocked”. First they came for the trans and the disabled, THEN the socialists and trade unionists. I am just fine being indiscriminate with those who prove themselves to be intolerant. Protect yr energy fam.
The reply: That’s like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure supression medication
HRT is no different than any other medical intervention that allows a person to have a better quality of life by influencing the already existing systems of hormones and neurotransmitters for the given conditions/issues/wellbeing.
What’s more, in the event that the human being making the choice with their doctor to use hormone blockers changes their mind, puberty resumes AND compensates such that the overall outcome is near-entirely unchanged compared to if had they not used blockers. (And are much less likely to self-harm or take their own life overall)
The misinformation about trans kids and puberty is honestly audacious, such that anyone who actually cares about Trans People’s safety, well being and happiness would recognize such if they so much as scratch at the surface of current medical knowledge.
Trans people are not your science experiment.
One’s medical choices are noone’s business but that human being and their doctor. Parental ownership over children is quite a flawed institution when many parents are absentee, and that’s before you figure in the lack of educaction about, misinformation about, and outright internalized bigotry for trans people – which many parents fail their children by not confronting, unpacking…but instead making the problem of the small human being who has no legal standing in our rancidly unjust systems. This society believes itself more civilized than barbarians or cro-magnons or marauding vikings or australopithecus…which only multiplies it’s vicious indifferent violent tendencies.
“If God had wanted you to regulate your glucose levels he wouldn’t have given you type 1 diabetes. Now give me your goddam insulin!”
Materialist answer (inspired by a video called Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology, by breadtuber Halim Alrah… and also Jane Elliott’s famous experiment)
Business owner makes money by paying workers to produce widgets at $6 / unit. Owner sells these widgets at $10 / unit, making a $4 profit each sale.
Before long, the workers catch on to the reality of the situation: the owner could be making a lot less and still be able to provide “leadership” (or whatever it is he provides). They decide not to work for less than… $8 per unit. With this price, the owner will still be wealthy (the business makes hundreds of widgets, after all). But now, so will the workers.
So the workers save up money and use it to go on strike.
However: business owner comes up with a better solution to the problem: he divides the workers into brown-eyed workers and blue-eyed workers. He then uses his money to discriminate against the brown-eyed workers. His cronies in government make it legal to deny brown-eyed workers jobs and housing. His cronies in the media write hysterical anecdotal stories about various brown-eyed rapists, thieves, and murderers.
Terrified mobs – stoked into a frenzy by the business owner’s well-funded propaganda – tear down brown-eyed people’s homes and food supplies, leaving them destitute before the strike is done.
The brown-eyed workers now must choose between returning to work for the business owner at $5 / unit… or starving to death.
The blue-eyed workers, meanwhile, have just been tricked into betraying their own team. Some were not tricked, but simply unprepared. These unprepared workers stood by in either shock, uncertainty, or laziness, unable to comprehend how their fellow blue-eyed workers could have become so foolishly self-defeating and cruel.
But now the business owner can put up the illusion of no longer needing the blue-eyed workers. He can run his factory on a skeleton crew of desperate, brown-eyed workers, and say to the blue, “uh oh! Looks like the brown-eyed workers just stole your jobs!”
Much like the brown-eyed workers, the blue-eyed workers have a restricted set of choices: A) admit they were suckers --fooled into attacking their own team – and try to apologize and rebuild their union, B) double down and blame brown-eyed people for undercutting them… but reluctantly return to work, because the strike is broken, or C) just like the brown-eyed workers, they can choose to starve to death.
(A) will be the most difficult. As Mark Twain said: “it’s easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.”
The business owner wins, and now society has an eye-color-discrimination problem. Eye color was an arbitrary characteristic. Yet now it decides where someone lives, who they spend time with, and what kinds of opportunities they have access to.
The business owner can rinse and repeat for: skin tone, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. As the saying goes,
“Divide and conquer.”
You asked why trans people are currently the subject of fear and hysteria? No reason. Not any new reason at least. Trans people are different. Any and every difference between workers is an opportunity for those fatcats rich enough to own “The Daily Mail” and the “The New York Post” to separate us into camps and drain us dry, one camp at a time.
I find this disingenuous, infantilizing. Racial discrimination and warring has been happening since the beginning of (recorded) time. It stems, among many, many other things (this thing is incredibly complex), from the fear of the other’s “unknowns”, a somewhat justified fear of others, given humanity’s penchant for conquering the neighbors. Another factor is the use of each own’s feeling of superiority over the other’s, to cover for one’s underlying fear of inferiority in some way. Take the example (one of many, not singling out here) of the Jews assertion that they are god’s chosen people, thus everyone else being inferior.
While divide and conquer has been used since the dawn of time, and adapted by the capitalists, the sad and simple fact is that people fear that which doesn’t conform to their comfortable life scheme, that people want certainty, and having a “different” is unsettling for many, and demonization is an easy way to prop one’s belief structure. People who exchange critical thinking for a “safe” belief structure, find it threatening to have others challenge that, so they fight back, to try to have that attack defeated. This can be exploited by others, to rally against that perceived common enemy. Wave a flag, and all who have a common belief of that flag representing their values will rally.
People don’t want to think, and/or challenge their beliefs. It’s a comfort thing.
I like your answer too. While I strongly believe the trans talking point is being amplified almost exclusively to fuel culture wars between the working class, your point on out-group mentality is a DNA encoded reality, from what I remember reading.
I think the two compromise the bulk of the answer along with the culture war fuel dumped by foreign entities interested in destabilizing the US.
The only remedy is education. Something that is sadly on the decline.
Really well articulated.
Thanks!
Incredible answer! I saved this with my running list of great quotes and passages.
Thank you!
We have a lot of LGBTI people in our climbing group
I have never had an issue with any of them
But the people trying to be hyper masculine? Yep…
I feel like it’s because they never left high school. A lot of them are simply trying the same thing that worked when they are a kid. Everyone else grows up
Their systems of power rely on having an “in” group and an “out” group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.
They’re just choosing a new group to “other” so that we don’t realize they’re coming for everyone who doesn’t fit into their narrow worldview.
This
I support trans people to do whatever they want to themselves but unfortunately one did shoot up a school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Nashville_school_shooting
With trans people making up 0.5-1.6% of the US population, wouldn’t it be strange if not a single school shooter was trans?
That question lead me down a rabbit hole: There have been 417 school shootings since Columbine in 1999 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/
I don’t have statistics on the number of school shootings perpetrated by multiple people. But I suspect that it’s a miniscule number. So I’m going to go with 417 individuals carrying out acts counted as school shootings. And not to try to be John Oliver or something, but what counts as a school shooting may be as little as this numbnuts who shot them self in the leg in a high school parking lot https://www.wptv.com/news/region-the-glades/belle-glade/lockdown-lifted-at-glades-central-high-school-following-shooting.
0.5% of 417 is 2.1 and 1.6% is 6.7.
Meaning that somewhere between 2 and 7 trans school shooters would indicate that trans people are just as likely as cis people to carry out school shootings. That only a single shooter has been trans, may not be statistically significant, as we’re dealing with integers and it’s pretty darn close.
So I’m left to conclude that being trans isn’t significant in being a school shooter. Trans people may just be as fucked up as the rest of us.
What I’m more interested in is how the trans man in Nashville in 2023 would have counted, if this statistic didn’t only cover until 2022 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1463155/active-shooters-us-schools-by-gender/
Your calculation doesn’t track. Although i agree with your overarching point, the percentage of trans people in the US between 1999 and now would’ve been on an upward trajectory, so your calculations would have to account for that
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People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
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It doesn’t conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
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Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
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Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Projection is also a common way for people to deflect blame for societal ills. Religious zealots will ignore and even shield sexual abusers present in their own institutions and divert that animosity to outside groups that make convenient targets. They are ok with the abusers within their walls because they are seeking absolution through religious systems. They are not ok with queer people because they need to scapegoat a group to explain why things don’t seem to be getting better.
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Conservatives come in two types. The rich ones who want more and more money. And the poor ones who also want more money but are unable to obtain it because the rich hoard money.
The rich conservatives need to stop the poor conservatives from realizing the rich are why the poor can’t get money. So they make up vulnerable groups to blame for the poor’s problem, and the poor are generally too poorly educated to catch on to this game.
Different groups have been the scapegoat. Women, blacks, the italians, the irish, asians, gays, and now it’s transgender people.
The good news is transgender people WILL get full rights in about 20-30 years if you look at historical cycles. The bad news is it will be a fight and many will die before they get treated as human beings by these asshole conservatives.
I think earth’s current environment is going to collapse in 20-30 years.
True egalitarianism