- cross-posted to:
- iasip@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- iasip@sh.itjust.works
cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/c/iasip@sh.itjust.works/p/426876/the-downsides-of-running-a-fediverse-platform
S17E3 “Mac and Dennis Become EMTs”
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That’s what you get with “the public” aka “the plebs” aka “hoi polloi”, regardless of where and when. The public is scary and Other
You forgot “the great unwashed”.
I really need to work “hoi polloi” into my lexicon lol
I used it for the first time in my life last night watching Culinary class wars.
The Rabble
rabbling intensifies
Why is there an exclamation mark in a triangle on the person’s face in the first image
Cause they got banned
Ahh ok, makes sense.
Thought it was a censor because of some sort of trigger warning
I don’t know how it is on other apps but in Jerboa banned users have that symbol next to their name.
oh no the tankies i’m quivering in me timbers
Always sunny means are golden
I love this place.
Also-
When did season 17 come out?!
Just this summer. Many consider it the best season in recent years!
It’s pretty good, but it’s a bit jarring to see these older wealthy people portray much younger lowlifes
Much younger? Are the characters not the same age as the actors?
still better by far than the echo chambers
Echo chambers in your local instance?! It’s more likely than you think.
More at six.
sure
that’s why i chose my instance based of how much other instances will be inacessible for me.
ikr same
You miss the chains already?
I learned to never argue with Mac.
Tankies are faaaaaaar better than the alternative. You know who
Kinda comparing turds to diarrhea if you ask me.
Yeah but if I have gloves and have to pick a firm brick of heroin poop, I can toss the gloves wash my hands and be done with it.
I’m not gonna deal with splashy diarrhea that randomly calls the death squads because you’re a scary commie, like the last few kernels in a pot of popcorn when you’re too eager to transfer it to a bowl, but with death squads and poop. No amount of shower will make me feel clean.
Use a mop. 🤦♂️
And what is the mop here?
It could be an actual mop if you’re good at martial arts.
Not over internet. Would need a cannon.
Tankies are the reason why Lemmy exists buddy. But then we all know that tankies is basically a liberal version if the word “Woke”.
Tankies are authoritarians. They twist the good ethos of communism and socialism into self-serving hierarchy. That’s why we don’t like tankies.
That’s awesome, but what about it’s real meaning ? As in In Practice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89n21U6Q3_8
Hmm
Another angel gets their wings (learns how to disengage from spaces they’re presently incompatible with) ❤️
The tankies?
It’s a pejorative used for anti-leftist authoritarians who unironically insist their extreme-rightist ideals are somehow leftist.
Ooh they hated that one
They usually do.
It originally was an insult used by communists against other communists to refer to people who supported the Soviet intervention into Hungary when the Hungarian government was collapsing. The Soviets intervened militarily to not only stabilize it but obviously make sure “their guy” would be in charge of the new government.
The communists who disagreed with this argued that Hungary should just be allowed to sort out their own government and the USSR shouldn’t be making those decisions for them, and they called people who disagreed “tankies” in reference to visible tanks in the streets when the Soviets showed up.
The word was then adopted by anarchists as an insult against Marxists, because Marxists believe in using state force to build socialism/communism while anarchists think the state is inherently a force for bad. This meant that “tankie” no longer referred to just the Soviet usage of tanks in Hungary specifically, but began to be used by anarchists to criticize every time a state ran by a Marxist party used state violence (“tanks”).
Liberals later discovered the word “tankie” and adopted it as just a synonym for “communist,” and the word has pretty much devolved in its usage in recent years to largely just be a stand-in for “communist” but more derogatory.
Wrong, it’s what the left calls genocide and dictator sympathisers.
Cope
So, who exactly is a tankie?
Current usage just means anyone to your left
Anyone you don’t like.
I find that when people use this term I get suspicious. It could be used to describe authoritarian Stalinists, Maoists, Marxist-Leninists, or just communists/socialists in general. I wish that posters would be more specific, because everyone and their mother has a different definition of “tanky”. It often comes across as a thought-terminator. I’m not up to speed on the Lemmy beef, so I have no idea who’s right, but I’ve seen like 10 posts about tankies and none of them really defined the term, which is very frustrating.
Tankie would be ml or militant left
The .ml stands for machine learning obviously. Get with the times old head!
See?
This dude’s embarrassingly wrong.
Here’s what the sum of all human knowledge has to say about it.
I read the first paragraph and it was pretty much exactly what I said. I’m not confused by the meaning of the term, if that’s why you shared it.
42?
Ostensibly left (soc/comm) pro authoritarian.
Those who literally deny the existence of the massacre in the Tiananmen Square, claiming that “nobody was killed” (or far more rarely, unapologetically stating that if they were, then they deserved it). Basically far-left extremists that exist in a world of “alternative facts” just like conservatives, the common denominator being that and simping for authoritarian regimes.
Words like “consent” tend not to matter to those holding that ideology.
“Tankie” does not come from Tiananmen Square, that is a common misconception. The term “tankie” is 33 years older than the Tiananmen Square massacre.
It originated to describe people who supported the 1956 Soviet Union military intervention in Hungary. Stalin sent in a bunch of T-35 tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution. He was successful, and thousands of people died in the process.
Ever since then, “tankie” has been used as a derogatory term against Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, communists, and leftists in general.
The term mostly had been invoked by anti-authoritarian leftists derisively toward anyone who still supported the Soviet Union. In time, the usage generalized to apply broadly to authoritarian leftists, such as Marxist-Lenininsts (or Stalinists).
Now is it largely misused by liberals to designate anyone strongly critical of Western imperialism, which includes everyone from anarchists to campists.
Thats a really interesting bit of history, thank you for the additional context
Their name references a genocide, I doubt in good faith
Krono? Or are you referring to someone else in this thread?
deleted by creator
Ohhh. I think you may have gotten confused about where you’re replying to. I hadn’t even seen them, as they weren’t in the direct chain of comments I was replying in. I was thanking Krono for explaining that tankie came from violence carried out in the Soviet Union long before the tianamen square massacre, and so the name predated that particular act of violence
Anyway, I hope you have a lovely day :)
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
I don’t think it is a common misconception, I think it’s pretty common knowledge (at least among the terminally online) that it started with the Hungarian Revolution.
It seems more common knowledge for people actually in Europe. Many people in the USA seem to have never really heard the word. Especially the younger generations (which since this is a memes community… does seem slightly relevant to your statement, as I would expect a broader populace here as opposed to a community dedicated to discussions of world-wide import).
Thank you.
To be fair, tanks seem to be a favored tool of these oppressive regimes. I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some). The problem comes when these fucking authoritarian cheerleaders come out and say communist governments were never oppressive.
Extremists like to use “alternative facts” or whatever other tactics achieve their goals. The means does not matter to them, only the ends, which they feel self-righteously justifies anything to achieve.
And then separately from that, gullible people also exist too. It is a bias that we all could fall prey to, though some of us seem more on guard against it than others.
(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
This comment is dripping with unintentional irony. How many times have you been shown a picture of bicycles and pretended they were dead bodies?
Except you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
In theory it might seem fine, but in reality it was just a dictatorship, and quite a brutal one too.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Except you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
eh docs and nurses are pretty fucking cool but don’t work for free. of course you’re going to pay people off, they need wages ffs
Communism = no currency. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of knowledge regarding communism in here. A bit of an echo chamber. It’s funny how so many can hate something so much without actually knowing what it is they’re hating. Ha.
…I’d prefer a single payer system where no one went without. Broke my nose while living in the UK and was impressed with their no bullshit system.
you can have democratic socialism of many flavors without going full on communism, and you’ll never get to communism from here, abjectly shittified capitalism. I’d prefer denmark over…well, where has communism worked?
Like, I respect the medical professionals Cuba produces but would never want to live there.
I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some).
Tankies never seem to get that that part is not being critized, but the subversive of the movement by authoritarians.
This is projection on three levels
First you’re projecting a lack of knowledge
Second you’re projecting basic social democratic policies onto socalism
And finally you’re projecting onto socalism the ‘subversive authoritarians’ that have done nothing but dismantle those policies while committing the worst atrocities in history around the world
And anyone who stands up to them (authority) gets called a tankie
The only good leftist is the one that votes for the BLUE genocidal drill-baby-drill rapist
The “oppression” you’re referring to is confiscating the properties of bourgeois capitalists and landlords, and imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes free, universal care and other social benefits possible. It’s absurd to expect the features of communism without the policies behind them.
Also, the idea that authoritarian socialist governments just have a sadistic tendency to oppress and torture poor peasants is deeply unserious and a work of imagination created by western capitalist propaganda.
The oppression they’re referring to is shooting at protestors wanting democratic reforms. The comment before that literally gives an example, the least you could do is look into it.
First of all, socialist governments, like any other government, did not use force on protestors unless provoked by seditious behavior (i.e. coup attempt or political unrest), and only in proportion, which was the case in Hungary and in China. Stories about tanks crushing the bodies of protestors is fictitious. Also, the history of the Soviet Union, the PRC and other socialist polities is filled with workers protests that were left unaltered because they are a natural part in the process of building socialism. Thus, the idea that freedom of expression was inexistent under socialism is false, which leads me to my second point.
The claim that the riots in socialist states called for “democratic” reforms is the furthest thing from the truth. In the case of Hungary, the 1956 uprising was orchestrated by the Prime Minister in order to establish a capitalist multi-party system and restore the property of the big landowners after they were purged in the preceding decade and their industries nationalized by the state. If you consider this to be “democracy” then you cannot consider yourself to be a leftist.
Thousands were killed in the uprising.
The demands largely emphasized national sovereignty and labor conditions, not restoration of appropriated property to the bourgeoisie.
Justifying an invasion, an act of aggression over international borders, under the characterization of sedition is simply begging the question of the legitimacy of the established structure of governance.
By this point, Soviet governance was failing to produce improved conditions for workers, and much of the working class was disinterested in further personal sacrifice for a prolonged struggle against the capitalist core.
I just realized what your name references, gtfo genocide enabler red fash belongs in the same pit as the regular fascists
Ahh yes, the burgeois sailors of kronstadt.
300 communists were arrested and imprisoned by the Provisional Revolutionary Committee but hundreds of others escaped. The prison warden, Shustov, claimed to be an anarchist and planned to execute 23 Bolshevik prisoners, although the execution was prevented by the arrival of the Red Army.
The mutiny was supported by members of the White Army and British foreign minister George Curzon encouraged the Finnish government to intervene against the Bolsheviks.
On 17 March, the mutiny was defeated and Petrichenko ordered the crews of Sevastopol and Petropavlovsk to destroy their ships and go to Finland. The soldiers did not follow orders and arrested many members of the Provisional Revolutionary Committee. In May, Petrichenko went to Finland and joined the White Army under General Pyotr Wrangel.
Uh huh right, source me reality then, enlighten us that live in The Cave
Removed by mod
I am a user on this collective platform as much as you are. You may block me if my genuine contributions seem to irk you.
The only mistake that Germany did in WW2 was not becoming allies with Ukrainians
the only mistake
good to know that you don’t think there was anything else that Nazi Germany did wrong. The extermination of millions of people was apparently a good decision in your eyes.
This is about what I expected from someone who posts on meanwhileongrad.
Citations in an uncensored medium needed.
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs. Is your name Trump, Netanyahu, or Putin by any chance? The fact that you imply that these are in any way a requirement for universal care or social benefits gives your game away.
This isn’t the checkmate you think it is.
“Fascists brush their teeth twice a day. You also brush your teeth. That means you are a fascist!!!”
Do not omit the context from the general notion. I am speaking of bourgeois industrialists who exploit the working class, and not native populations with the right to sovereignty.
So no citations, just the same old regurgitated propaganda that has been in the library stands for decades. I think we’ve reached common ground, you recognize you are basically proposing:
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
And I’m just pointing it out. You speak of <insert populist excuse here> that only easily materializing in the caricatures you have in your mind but which you would do your best bourgeois impersonation to apply liberally if you ever got the power to do so. This isn’t the checkmate you think it is, you are just wearing a different brand of rhetoric that just ends up devolving in a pretty similar way.
This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs.
Someone needs to tell Mohammed Mossadegh that he was doing neocolonialism when he nationalized the natural resources that had been stolen by British colonizers and that he’s exactly like Netanyahu for it. I guess the CIA was right to overthrow him, democracy be damned.
What an absolutely insane take.
I have so many questions. I guess I never viewed as “tankie” as left.
Hell, I consider myself far-left to the point of being a progressive, almost to the point of being an anarchist.
But my reality is rooted in actual facts.
Note that the term “tankie” has become an anti-communist trope to demonize any person who’s to the left of free universal healthcare.
I’ve been called a Tankie for saying Democrats should support popular policies to win elections they care about.
Removed by mod
“every position i have is true, you’re the brainwashed ones!” ~continues to exclusively read washington post and NYT~
I know you made that up and you have no idea of what you are talking about because you included Russia there.
meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
The comm of misfit posters used to have a lot of open ideation about purging “degenerates”, they’ve dialed it back a bit ever since I called them out about it.
You guys will call anyone tankie, even anarchists.
Every time I look at the modlog for someone there loudly complaining about ‘the tankie triad’ there’s almost always a ban (often a temp one) for either being a bigot, insulting people, or doing ‘both sides bad’ about the genocide of Palestinians.
To them anarchists are Tankies for not saying Gaza is filled with rapists. Check goat’s ban log from his .zip alt. He legitimately said Gaza is filled with rapists.
MoG is a fascist utopia. They have had actual Nazi dogwhistles upvoted.
It is not an ideal community, but is there some other link that I should have put there instead?
Stop larping as a leftist, nobody believes your BS.
Tankies only call themselves as leftists. And some places, like Hexbear, aren’t genuinely anything at all except people seeking “the dunk” - the appearance of winning an argument regardless of the reality of it (which requires a rigidly controlled echo chamber).
Hexbear got rid of their dunk tank comm. They are one of the most active instances with an excellent ongoing thread for international news and have some of the best analysis from people living in the Middle East, Nordic countries, China, South America, etc. Their mutual aid comm is one of the few places you can give directly to Palestinians, and a lot of comrades in need have found monetary help there (including me). Hexbear has its problems, but saying that whole instance is all about “seeking the dunk” is just another display of your ignorance, and how ironic it is that you keep accusing everyone else of only being interested in “winning and argument regardless of reality” all while revealing how unwilling you are to engage with actual reality. Every accusation a confession.
You are in the echochamber though, and you just make shit up pretty much every time I see you post.
Talk about tankies long and one always magically appears!
Lol more like spout ignorant shit long enough and someone who knows better will show up to correct you
I’m an anarchist, you’ll call everyone you don’t like tankie
The trick is to confidently make shit up. The tactic isn’t unique to Reddit, but it clearly was inherited from that culture.
There literally just was not a massacre in Tiananmen, reporters from different countries were on location to witness it and said as much at the time, you are pushing US propaganda and accusing the people correcting you of not understanding consent based on absolutely nothing, you are either an incurable moron or a fed, embarrassing either way
Basically far-left
we need a better topological geometry for these concepts, especially for these wacky edgecase fuckers like tankies. yeah, far left, like, you stand here, I’m going to move to your left until I’ve come around on the other side of the planet far far far far away left.
imho the vast majority of them are ccp click patriots waiting for the taiwan invasion to kick off.
Hehe, somebody was way ahead of you there…
haha this is fascinating
It seems to work so well 😁
I drew stink lines over your head to demonstrate that you’re bad
Liberals really believe this is political theory
The framing of separating the “authoritarian left” from the actual left is basically accurate.
Why is “Far Left” marked as a trademark?
Because of intellectual propriety.
Did you intend “intellectual property”?
Regardless, I understand the meaning of the symbol, but not its applicability to the context.
It’s supposed to be funny.
The political extremes are often more exclusionary and sometimes holier-than-thou, which is why it’s funny to say that you have exclusivity for the Far Left™ label. But as a leftist I also think that property is theft, intellectual property is not proper, hence… propriety.
At a guess, it might be intended to depict the concept of True (as in Genuine, Authentic) Far Left?
If so, I would argue that a corporate symbol does not match perfectly with the ideals of a Far Left, so I’d give it a grade of A for process (summarizing a lot of information into just one symbol) but only a C for outcome. It seems better if it had simply been removed entirely.
Then again, it’s easy for us to criticize, and it was harder for someone else to have created it initially, so props to whoever did that - overall I think that the image conveys a lot and is a good match for the concepts (that one symbol aside).
Also, to me it seems obviously tongue-in-cheek, not meant so much for actual conveyance of teaching real information so much as to provide a bit of brevity surrounding the topic. (Usage of the word “fuck” aside, there’s also “whatever”, which seems not congruous with like an academic - even at the Wikipedia level - discussion of the reality of the topic matters, chiefly since it lacks precision.) Then again, I could be wrong.🤔
Having the trademark on far left never made sense to me either, really undermines the whole thing. the plot is also missing axis.
I took a stab at fixing it, will add coordinates once i can find my graphing calculator
Lmao is this all you post about?
Yep, and then wonder why no one likes them.
I like what they’re saying.
Tiananmen denial is hardly the only qualification for the term. That’s an example of typical behavior, not the definition.
It’s also far from the worst thing red fascists have done so it’s just so weird how hard people focus on it. At least talk about gulags and kulaks sometimes, damn
I seem to have conflated multiple things there - that is a common test that is often used to determine if someone is to be labeled as a “tankie”, but yes is not its actual definition.
It’s also far from the worst thing red fascists have done so it’s just so weird how hard people focus on it.
That’s the point. There’s lots of things Stalin and Mao did wrong, but when reformers like Khrushchev or Deng came along, there were some in the West who viewed them as more moderate and sympathetic, and supported deescalation.
Trots, who were some of the most militant and aggressive cold warriors, wanted to play prevent this, so they came up with the term tankie, to imply that anyone who took that position was no different from someone who blindly supported everything done by Stalin, and then Mao.
This is why people are so hyper-focused, even now, on minor events like Tienanmen or Hungary, which pale in comparison to the bad things Stalin and Mao did, and are roughly as far back in the past. Because the real point of the insult is not to attack people who actually defend everything done by someone with a red flag, but to attack people who defend any single thing done by someone with a red flag.
This, in turn, raises the question of whether Khrushchev had the right approach at all with trying to deescalate with the West and change some of Stalin’s practices, since even relatively progressive Westerners hated him just as much for it. In reality, there’s literally nothing you can do to appease Westerners, y’all hate China for having billionaires and you hated before when it didn’t have billionaires; you hated Russia when it was led by Stalin, you hated it when it was led by Kruschev, you were briefly ok with it when it surrendered to plundering, but even then, now you’re back to hating it. AES states are clearly better off just accepting that Western “leftists” will always hate them regardless of what they do or don’t do.
Words like “consent” tend not to matter to those holding that ideology.
Her name is Tara Reede
But hey she was late on rent one time after the most progressive president in history destroyed her life for reporting her rape by him so she deserved it retroactively
Not something worth getting in the way of genocide over
It’s really funny how quickly the DNC lovers swapped from “BELIEVE WOMEN” to “Ya know we need to ensure when women say they were raped we have to go find evidence” the moment their favorite politician probably raped someone.
