You must log in or register to comment.
Ecofascism isn’t a real ideology I don’t know why people keep insisting it is. Almost seems like a deliberate psy-op to create divisions among environmentalists. But more likely people are just stupid and afraid and angry.
What do you mean? It certainly is. It has been, for example, an influence in several right extreme terror attacks (notably the Christchurch, NZ mass shooting in 2019 comes to mind, where the murderer explicitly described himself as such in his manifesto). Not to mention that crunchy, back-to-the land ideas are a really important part of contemporary far right propaganda.
I’d also argue that this doesn’t really sow division amongst environmentalists; just because it has ‘eco’ in the name doesn’t mean these people actually care about the environment, it’s all aesthetics.
It has been, for example, an influence in several right extreme terror attacks (notably the Christchurch, NZ mass shooting in 2019 comes to mind, where the murderer explicitly described himself as such in his manifesto).
“Michelle Chan, vice president of programs for Friends of the Earth, said, “The key thing to understand here is that ecofascism is more an expression of white supremacy than it is an expression of environmentalism.””
just because it has ‘eco’ in the name doesn’t mean these people actually care about the environment, it’s all aesthetics.
In other words, it isn’t an ideology.
Something doesn’t have to be correct or honest to be an ideology. It’s a shared doctrine among a significant part of the far right that “protection of the environment” is their purported motivation for exterminating undesirables. That’s absolutely an ideology, even if they’re wrong about its effects or even dishonest about it. I don’t believe it’s all said cynically and knowingly either, and I don’t think that Michelle Chan, in that quite accurate quote, is saying that they never believe in the stories they’re telling themselves about it. Just that the deeper cause for their actions is actually white supremacy. It would be like saying a religious ideology wasn’t an ideology just because it’s motivations are not the actual existence of some supernatural entity but instead cultural forces, bonding, the comfort of rituals etc., and I don’t think that makes much sense.
White supremacy is the ideology.
Sure, that’s the overarching category. It is a subtype of that.
How is it a subtype? It has nothing unique to environmentalism and all to do with ethnic supremacy. They’re simply using racism to wedge themselves into actual world problems.
White supremacy also has nothing to do with white people actually being supreme, it’s about the narratives that shape the worldview of the people subscribing to the ideology.
Well first was this guy’s ideology really distinct or is he just a fascist who talks about environmental issues as a post-hoc justification to make his objectively deranged actions seem more reasonable? And if he’s just a fascist I don’t think he need to take his justifications seriously by giving him a newly named ideology.
But I didn’t mean there are no singular eco-fascists anywhere on earth. There are 8 billion people on the planet so I could make up a mad lib ideology and chances are it’s similar to what someone somewhere believes. But I’ve never met one to my knowledge, not even online. There’s no organized push for this or political power behind it. The vast majority of fascists don’t give a shit about the environment and the vast majority of environmentalists oppose fascism. So the only time I see it mentioned is when people get criticized for discussing the impacts of human population.
I understand why it’s a touchy subject. Past racist policies used overpopulation as a justification for crimes against humanity. But that the human impact on the earth is proportional to our population is just a fact, and it doesn’t make you a fascist to acknowledge that. You’re only a fascist if you think that fact gives you a right to brutalize people, and, as I’ve said, I just don’t hear this from any organized or popular thinkers.
And if he’s just a fascist I don’t think he need to take his justifications seriously by giving him a newly named ideology.
Giving an important branch of fascist ideas a name doesn’t “take his justifications seriously” in any sense of condoning them. It’s also not newly named, but been discussed in academic studies of far right tendencies for decades, at least since the 60s. It’s a useful category for describing a set of ideas which have substantial influence.
But I’ve never met one to my knowledge, not even online.
There are probably lots of ideologies you don’t hear about all the time. Instead of just rejecting their existence with a total lack of curiosity you could instead read about them. At least start with the Wikipedia page…
Yes, surprised at these comments considering how much this stuff is some of the current hot topics in research.
Sorted by date:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&scisbd=1&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=ecofascism
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q="indigenous+stewardship"&scisbd=1
Biodiversity is one of my areas, chat.
Your post really called out all the “smart” people who have decided on a form of fascism to appeal to their idea of how to fix the world.
They won’t change their mind cause they want less people and they want to think it fixes stuff without having to read a study about it. They liked it during covid when there were less people to interact with I think and had comfort in wealth to not have to suffer the consequences and now just aim for it.
Good post. Love the resources.
Some people have just “never seen” fascism. Shrug.
The problem is Discrediting by Association. Any meaningful, impactful movement that challenges the growth paradigm and threatens profiteers is disingenuously categorized as ecofascist.
Reddit/r/collapse wouldn’t talk about population at all for years because of the knee-jerk reaction to lump it in with eugenics and genocide. They grew up and now it is carefully moderated and discussed well. It seems Lemmy ain’t there yet.
If you are an ecology dude like me you remember I=PAT. How can we discuss solutions when we self censor ethical and moral discussions around the P pillar?
Sure, if you all want to live like it’s 1750 again humans are not a problem. We both know you don’t want to do that so stop acting like the modern lifestyle is sustainable if the rich just polluted less. It’s not that simple, they pollute that much because they own the facilities that support our lifestyle
they pollute that much because they own the facilities that support our lifestyle
I didn’t know their private jets, yachts, and companies that lobby for lax environment rules support my lifestyle.
Cars, as in personal vehicles, are one of the largest portions of environmental damage. The majority of cars are owned by people who aren’t rich. Don’t underestimate the footprint of the average decently off person in a 1st world country
That’s so racist
Your meme has too many words and the four block structure makes no sense.
Dude, there is a memes that are mutliple paragraphs that some people can recite by heart.
Just mention eliter snipers or vaporeon and watch the people go.
Come on, copy pasta is an entirely different form and they work due to being identical, or near, every time.
Theres a very subtle line where youve adapted them to the specific situation that they no longer work.
And the bottom 2 panels should maybe be reversed?
Tldr White people bad
It’s actually “TL;DR rich people bad” but sure, pop off I guess.
The final panel is, yes.
Look, I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the message. But if you can’t see how that is what it looks like it’s saying, I can’t help you.
White people do be bad tho.
Anne Hathaway, Emma Watson, Cate Blanchette…
Absolute baddies 🥵
I distinctly remember being taught in 2002 in upstate New York that humans were outside of the ecosystem and not bound by the same rules and things as animals were. The teacher said that’s what made us so special.
What a fucking crime.
Humans are beyond the environment
We aren’t saying that brown people are above tech and modernities and that’s why they don’t have them… are we? Surely not.
Nope, check out the TEK links and the First Nations link. A lot of these programs are led by indigenous groups.
https://www.unep-wcmc.org/en/news/championing-indigenous-peoples-stewardship-of-biodiversity
I’m not sure this person is aware what indigenous means. Unless, of course this meme is a 100% America-centric meme and largely ignores the entire rest of the world.
Also pretty funny that “eco fascism” is placed underneath what I assume are native Americans.
This is echoed across the globe, aboriginal people on Australia and others in the pacific islands. No, it’s not America only indigenous.
Switch the bottom panels in your head. They’re not meant to be associated with the up row. Oop poor design choice.
I get the intent, but I still think it’s funny that you placed eco fascist underneath the group the native Americans.
Btw, I still don’t think you know what indigenous means.
Indigenous people protecting the environment from what?
This better be ragebait
I think its more of a stewardship concept
Capitalism
That’s the real answer
Are Indigenous populations deforesting the Amazon? Are they forcing oil pipeline projects that cause massive oil spills that pollute rivers and lakes for thousands of years? Do they force mining projects that pollute earth for thousands of years? Did they invent forever chemicals that have now pollute every single square inch of earth? No, they live sustainably.
This is absolutely worshipping indigenous people more so that you should be. They’re human same as the rest of us, and don’t have magical pro environment powers.
Which is my point. People. They’re protecting it from other people.
Yeah that was pretty obvious to the rest of us.
Nihilists should lead by example and remove themselves first.
Thanks for the good vibes, they’d also love this over on LeftyMemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Feel free to crosspost!
Sounds like shrinking the population would solve the problem, as long as it’s a very specific 10% that was shrunk.
Just a little off the top.
It’s not wrong to say that population is the driving problem. Do you think indigenous people ever coexisted with their ecosystem at the population density we’re at now?
Carbon emissions are not the only problem. I really doubt the world’s reaches 10% also produce half of the sewage and plastic or that most of the land is turned into farms to feed them. It’s nice that indigenous people living in forest don’t destroy it but you can’t have 8 billion people living in forests. Cities and highways are not part of the ecosystem.
What are the population densities and technology levels among these magical indigenous peoples? This is the Magical Negro trope all over again.
Saying stuff like humans are the virus isn’t fascism it’s just simply stupid/edgy. Sure you could say someone like that is a useful idiot to fascists but that’s like saying everyone who drinks gasoline from the cars parked on the street is furthering the agenda of some solar panel manufacturing company. Both are inconsequential enough for me not to give a shit.
