Today, i couldnt upvote a post from anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus so i decided to check it out on my pc. i noticed that i was banned from the com even though i havent posted anything on the com nor the instance. i guess the reason for the ban is that i posted a meme to different comm a while ago. The meme is homophobic but i didnt know it when i was posting it. After finding out it was homophonic, i added a disclaimer to my post.
i dont think i deserved the ban, and i want to hear your thoughts.
Maybe dont post stuff where the butt of the “joke” is homosexuality.
i dont think i deserved the ban, and i want to hear your thoughts.
you were banned because you are a flotilla member who posted a homophobic meme, and I don’t want to associate with anyone who does something like that. even though you’ve only upvoted memes in our comm, I’m not willing to share our space with someone who thinks jokes that make queer people the punchline are acceptable.
you weren’t the only one banned, a (now formerly) dbzer0 user named redsand had their entire account permanently banned from both Divisions By Zero and Anarchist Nexus by the admins for being so mad over my objection to the post that they encouraged me to kill myself after admitting to attempting to dox me.
if you have reflected on your actions, and are sincerely renouncing them, then I will reconsider your ban from our comm. but if that is not the case, then I must remind you that anarchism depends on the freedom of association, and I don’t wish to associate with anyone who makes jokes like this.
Then you block them if you truly believe in freedom of association, not ban them from the comms you moderate. I gotta say, Trump and Bill are the punchline of that joke because Trump is the homophobe and that image probably sends him into a rage. It may be tempting to think, but the punchline is definitely not “tehehe gay”. It really seems you’d have to intentionally misconstrue the meme to interprete it that way in our current political climate and the context of the platform in which it was posted to.
literally read the article the OP edited into their post. also, maybe don’t tell queer people not to be offended over homophobic jokes.
Then you block them if you truly believe in freedom of association, not ban them from the comms you moderate.
freedom of association means a inviolable right to disassociate. furthermore, since I am a mod of the comm, and Anarchist Nexus is a Piefed instance, and Piefed has better blocking than Lemmy, if I block them they are shadowbanned from the comm anyway and their posts will not federate properly. this is why I had to remove my instance block of .ML so that certain ML users could post to !libjerk@anarchist.nexus.
Idk it seems like you are deiciding for me if you’re banning people from comms.
the fediverse is open and free to everyone. if you want to make your own c/anarchymemes, do so. you’re still free to associate with people who make homophobic memes if you want.
but you can’t insist another anarchists or anarchist groups let you do it within their circle. I suggest you try reading the AFAQ for a better understanding on what freedom of association means: https://anarchistfaq.org/afaq/
Your own personal rights are not central to your acting as a moderator.
As a moderator, you represent the interests of the community.
I understand your position, but not everyone considers the matter to be equally unambiguous.
As a moderator, you represent the interests of the community.
yes, which is why I discussed it with the active community over Matrix. would you like to make a guess on what they thought of the meme?
I was responding to your explanation as presented.
My own feeling is that not giving anyone a chance to take responsibility works against our interests of fostering inclusivity and responsibility. It is essential to keep open space for discussion with those who may be misguided or unthoughtful but are otherwise generally reasonable.
It is essential to keep open space
if you want spaces that remain open to a degree for liberals or tankies, then there is !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com and !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, both places where agitprop that you will often find in !anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus is not welcome. the only reason c/anarchymemes is open to the public is that current Piefed limitations do not allow us to also restrict federation of the community to trusted instances as well, so it has to be public in order for those from dbzer0 and quokk.au to post.
to put it in plain english, the whole point of the comm is to post memes that will piss off liberals and tankies. serious discussion of any kind is forbidden as there are preexisting communities for that. the sidebar quite clearly lays that out. we aren’t here for people who don’t share our values, and we aren’t here for anything more than memes.
Even if all of it is true, as you say, preemptively banning users who never posted feels very abrasive, even aggressive. I am afraid it may tend to engender negative sentiments about movements, by creating an impression that anarchists or leftists generally tend to be unwelcoming or uncompromising, just as might be actually the case for tankies. We want to maintain the appearance as a group of being open to discussion.
The question arises of whether preemptive banning is constructive, considering the power remains to ban someone later, as actually needed, as well as to remove objectionable content if submitted.
So you would be happy to share an instance with Nazis as long as you blocked them? Kinda sus.
Also by OPs own admission: “ I added disclaimer because other people explained to me why it was homophobic” seems enough other people felt the same.
OPs response when learning it was homophobic was not to remove the offending content but to add a pissweak disclaimer?
What pissweak disclaimer? I added it so that other people would know about it. When I learned the meme was homophobic the post stopped gaining traction, and users already saw it. i think acting aggressive like that wont help anyone. Kindness goes a long way.
If enough people told you it was homophobic, why keep it up at all?
By that stage you were clearly informed it was problematic and your response was to continue to do so but add a “disclaimer” as if that makes the behaviour now okay?
If you want acts of kindness don’t continue to keep up homophobic content, because all that will do is get you hostility from the victims of homophobia.
Who is “enough people?”
The queer community is not a monolith and we do not all agree with this bad take. I sure don’t and I do not appreciate people speaking for me, especially when it reflects poorly on me through no fault of my own. Nor do I appreciate the abuse that mods have exhibited in this thread. The original situation could have been a misunderstanding and it could have been resolved here. Instead, the mods of that community have doubled down on the toxic abuse and rhetoric.
If you want to speak for yourself speak for yourself. You don’t speak for me or my community.
They’re own word were "I added disclaimer because other people explained to me why it was homophobic”, that implies multiple other people and as such the ‘enough’ was whatever number it took of those other people explaining it to OP for them to learn.
Good for you, you also don’t speak for me and my community.
I have watched friends die while an entire country cheered and declared it was God’s divine judgement. My family is still actively under attack, our lives threatened constantly, by fascists who claim the namesake of a religion whose tenets they actively oppose. I have lost people. Real people. They suffered unimaginably physically, mentally, and emotionally and died and aren’t coming back. Don’t you baby gays and false allies lecture me on homophobia. I have lived through shit you can’t even seem to imagine. I giggled at that dumb post.
Don’t waste the good will you have earned by dying on this stupid, hurtful hill. I’m happy that you have it good enough that silly internet jokes are the benchmark of homophobia for you. The cost for such a world was immense and it can be undone by careless ally attacks like this. Do. Better.
Please do better.
Lol no. Block CSAM and Nazis. But a meme laughing at a hypocrit? Idk
You don’t speak for me or the queer community. I don’t consider the meme homophobic in the slightest. It is a play on words in response to Epstein files that mentioned that “Trump blew Bubba.” Reactions like yours give the rest of us a bad name. Do better.
I don’t consider the meme homophobic in the slightest.
well, you don’t speak for me either, and I do.
FYI the joke isn’t necessarily homophobic. It’s a pun on “Big Beautiful Bill” sounding like both the federal statute Trump signed and a nickname he has for Bill Clinton who he allegedly had sex with.
It becomes obvious when you realise the joke still works if Trump is a woman who had a secret affair with Bill and signed a bill. Of course, if people are laughing at Trump supposedly being gay/bi, that is homophobic. But the joke technically isn’t.
I understand why it annoyed you, but I think the joke simply went over your head, and you assumed it was laughing at Trump/Clinton being gay/bi. You’re certainly not alone in this, given some of the comments here and in the original thread.
I assume you didn’t just ban based on this meme and actually looked at the user’s history to judge intent.
anarchism depends on the freedom of association
Didn’t you just remove that freedom from this user, though?
Freedom of association is always a two way street. If one party removes their consent, than there is no free and consensual association possible.
no, because the anarchist principle of freedom of association also means the freedom to disassociate. and in this case, the active community agreed in discussion that they did not wish to associate with this person if they are making homophobic jokes. we’re currently discussing it again in Matrix, due to this thread, and the consensus is still that the person in question is not welcome because they have not renounced their earlier behavior, despite admitting that they know it is homophobic.
there is no anarchist principle that demands you must allow someone to be a part of your community if the community can not accept their behavior. this is why anarchist collectives such as the Zapatista exile people who are guilty of serious breaches of community trust.
they are still free to use the fediverse. they can even create their own c/anarchymemes community. but to insist that they be allowed into our community, when our community has decided they don’t represent acceptable anarchist views of solidarity with all peoples would be to establish a hierarchy of them above the community.
Dissociation would be blocking someone you don’t like. You banned them from a community. You personally, unilaterally made a decision on behalf of others without input, discussion, or community involvement. This is a perversion of anarchism.
Dissociation would be blocking someone you don’t like.
first of all, we use Piefed, which has better blocking than Lemmy. anyone I block is shadowbanned from the communities I mod anyway.
second of all, disassociation can absolutely mean exiling people from your community. it’s literally how modern day anarchist collectives such as the Zapistista work.
You personally, unilaterally made a decision on behalf of others without input, discussion, or community involvement.
again, absolutely wrong. I made the decision after originally discussing it with ALL the active community members over Matrix, as everyone who has ever posted to c/anarchymemes is a member of the flotilla Matrix and are active daily. I also discussed it again yesterday with the members of the community.
you shouldn’t say things like this when you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. you don’t know us, so don’t presume to know how we think or feel.
This is a perversion of anarchism.
there are many anarchists, all of whom have their own personal idea of what anarchism means. but as the AFAQ says, there’s no real definition of anarchism that everyone accepts. to me, your idea that anarchists must allow those who do harm to be among them is the perversion. I do wonder to what lengths you would take such a ridiculous notion. you have no issue with homophobia, obviously, so would you extend this idea to rapists? murderers? child molesters? at what level of immorality or intolerance is exiling someone from an anarchist community no longer a perversion of your idea of anarchism?
don’t bother answering, that was rhetorical. I’ll be shadowbanning you now, as you suggested I should do.
You’re right that I don’t understand how your community works. I’m glad it was discussed democratically, but there is someone you clearly forgot to include or this post wouldn’t exist.
to me, your idea that anarchists must allow those who do harm to be among them is the perversion.
You are putting defamatory words in my mouth, and I think you are aware that you are doing it maliciously with intent to defame. To me, this only further confirms my suspicions about you. The only person doing harm here is you. My generation has sacrificed too much, I have personally sacrificed too much, to stand quietly while decades of progress won at unimaginable and horrifying costs is undone by privileged children that can’t tell the difference between homophobia and situational humor that has nothing to do with our community.
I recommend you look at the discussions that Deceptichum and I just had, then calm down, collect your thoughts, and process what exactly I am saying. It is important that you understand the harm you are doing to those you claim to care about with behavior like this.
The community decided that, or the mod team did? Is the whole community a part of that Matrix chat?
yes, the people who post to the comm or regularly comment are all active members of the flotilla Matrix. it’s not a requirement, but that is how things turned out because the comm is targeted towards anarchists in general, and specifically the members of the three anarchist instances that make up the allied flotilla. Divisions By Zero, Anarchist Nexus, and Quokk.au.
it is against the rules for liberals or authoritarian leftists to comment in the community, and those outside the flotilla instances are not allowed to downvote posts at all. were it currently possible to set specific communities to not federate outside the trusted instances set in the Piefed settings, the greater fediverse would not even be able to see the community. it is ours, and we aren’t interested in association outside of with fellow anarchists. there are other anarchy communities on the flotilla for that.
the whole point of the community is to post agitprop, memes that will anger people who aren’t libertarian leftists. if you don’t identify as that, then the community is not made for you, and that has always been pretty clearly laid out in the sidebar.
Note quokka is not part of the flotilla as they voted down the suggestion
I call them honorary members. Qk posts some good memes to c/anarchymemes
They exercised self-determination in deciding against joining, but you deem it appropriate to disregard that and group them with something they chose not to become part of?
Did you contact the mods and told them your viewpoint?
One of the mods _cryptagion was on my post calling me to be instance banned instead of explaining. So I avoided them.
Sorry, I am just seeing their behaviour. This is straight up Power Tripping Reddit Mod Bullshit. You did right to avoid them, they sound perpetually upset.
Ban is excessive and probably you should have just had a chance to learn how it’s not very funny to be like “Haha X is gay, hilarious”
- a fruit
Admins seem pretty gay. Post seems slightly gay. Source am 50%gay.
Fuck off
How homophobic
Sorry, I wanted serious answers.
I did answer seriously I didn’t think it was ban worthy. If you can’t understand basic humor, that’s not my fault.
Yeah, it flew over my head.
I think the meme has homophobic undertones, but it wasn’t posted with the intent to be homophobic.
That’s… A really gray area to be declaring homophobia and a lifetime ban, imo. One of those instances where talking it out and education would probably have been the better response, but it’s not way over the line either.
lol
in these cases is there a way to know who banned you? I preemptively block some people so I never get the displeasure of interacting with them.yes, I permanently banned them.
you could check your modlog: https://slrpnk.net/modlog?userId=23146731
You do not receive notifications for moderator actions on your post/comments/account, but you can regularly check this page.
(also I think lemmy should implement moderation notifications)
I had other profile that had a couple of comments removed but modlog only said “mod”.
deleted by creator
Sometimes actions have consequences. And getting banned in one of dozens of anarchist communities on the Fediverse is really not a big consequence.
Small tip: If you truly believe that what you did was homophobic, dont put “homophobia” in quotes. This makes it seem like you are not actually using your own words and are actually not meaning it.
Calling that homophobic is such a stretch it should be a yoga pose.
It is not blatantly homophobic but I find the meme distasteful.
Explain that you can’t see what we know is right there because it’s a fucking black hole does not make this comment a black hole.
But if you think that fucking pun was, then try to pull your head out before you say it. When you fail to point out that anyone thinks anything other than shit is leaving your mouth, then let me redirect you to high school.
Those teachers won’t help you learn shit, obviously. They will make a damn good character example for everyone else to understand how politics handle Pinnocio.
This comment reads like somebody spammed the auto-prediction on their mobile keyboard.
Thanks for saying something, thought my meds stopped working.
PTB. The joke is a “secret lover”, nothing about sex or gender.
Looks like you learned not to joke about straight people being gay like it’s something to make fun of. Probaby should have just deleted. Still, PTB — a forever ban is a bit much, especially when you tried to use it as a teaching moment.
And yes, part of the joke is a play on Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill. Part of the joke is also about being gay.
Mh, this is a hard one. I’m not sure what is stupider … the ban or your disclaimer.
