This is referring to all the people who say I own this gun to protect against a tyrannical government. While I agree fighting a tyrannical government is noble Most of those people aren’t serious about it and are just LARPing. If you are serious about fighting for your freedom then you’d know that fighting alone will get you nowhere. No revolution or civil war has ever been won by scattered armed individuals with no organization, you need to join a group to be effective.
But all the militias are full of right wing psychos
Yeah, but you won’t be able to change their mind from the outside. Join one and try to educate them on true freedom from the billionaire capitalist class. Worst case scenario even if they don’t respond you’ll still be training and learning how to work in a group, and you can be a spy and learn their tactics and how to defeat them in the case of a civil war.
I’ll just buy the gun now and join a group once shit starts going down
That’s the wrong order, get organized and then buy weapons. Left wing organizations will be banned and forced underground long before guns are. There’s a very high probability trump will ban armed left wing groups in the next couple years, him restricting gun purchases is far less likely. It’s best to get in an organization and build trust before it goes underground because after they are banned they are rightfully more picky on who they let in for fear of informants.
They’re probably the most well rounded do it all rifle to exist. Cull invasive boars, home defense if you live on a large property, hunting, and most of all, they’re just fun to shoot.
Not to mention the amount of parts and customizations. Its popular for many many reasons.
You’ll want a larger round for boar hunting and anything else bigger than a boar, unless you are a very good shot or are just trying to cull them and don’t care about the meat or ethics and are fine with them dying later on from a wound. For larger game it’s borderline unethical to use 5.56. Fine for smaller pests like raccoons and rats.
If you want an all rounder that you can hunt and defend your home with you’ll want something in a bigger caliber. The only advantage an ar-15 has is customizability.
Yeah, but you won’t be able to change their mind from the outside. Join one and try to educate them on true freedom from the billionaire capitalist class. Worst case scenario even if they don’t respond you’ll still be training and learning how to work in a group, and you can be a spy and learn their tactics and how to defeat them in the case of a civil war.
You won’t be able to change their minds from the inside either, these types are a lost cause, they’re the most radical true believers. If you try they’re going to be suspicious of you, kick you out, keep you in the dark, maybe even get violent.
Maybe you can be effective as a spy, but who are you spying for, you’ need some kind of group who’s able to act on that intel, if you’re planning to hand it off to the police or something you have to
- Trust the police to act on it, which is a tall order these days
- Make sure that you’re toeing the line on legality to make sure that they can act on it and that you won’t land yourself in legal trouble because you, for example, recorded someone without their consent.
So you’re going to need some sort of network already in place before you go into this, maybe you’re lucky enough to have some good cops that you can trust, maybe some journalists you can pass info off to, maybe another militia you’re already involved in. You can’t just throw yourself into a militia and hope you’ll put the pieces together later, they’re going to be watching you, these people are already pretty paranoid, that’s why they’re in a militia to begin with, and if you suddenly vanish once you have your Intel on them, you’ve got a target on your back, and you need someone ready to act on it right away.
If you want to do the militia thing, you should be seeking out one that’s already left-leaning (there are a few) or start your own, which means at some point you’re probably going to have to be that guy with an AR playing at being in a militia until you actually have one.
My only wish is that every time I go to the range, I don’t have to be surrounded by dipshits with ARs. Even doubling up on ear protection doesn’t help with those things literally sucking the air out of my booth
I don’t think joining right wing militias will work unless you’re charismatic enough to be convincing to them that you don’t believe their bullshit, and savvy and skilled enough to be a spy from the inside. This might work for certain people, but not for the vast majority of us. Maybe if that person had training or prior undercover experience.
I was in the US military for 20 years. The Air Force, specifically. We trained with the M16A2 rifle for years, then later upgraded to the M4 rifle. The AR-15 is the civilian variant of those rifles, so I bought one to train in my own personal time. Pretty much the only difference is the AR-15 doesn’t have a burst mode, which shoots 3 rapid-fire rounds per trigger pull. That’s illegal to own in the civilian sector.
The military had us train on the weapon only once every couple years, and then later, they decided to save money on ammo by only training us if/when we deployed. And training was a day-long course of breaking apart the weapon, reassembling it, then firing on the range and qualifying with targets. Hardly enough time to practice.
My wife also served, but she had very little experience with guns in general and was barely passing her qualifications. She’s a small lady and had trouble holding up the large weapon. So I bought the AR-15 so we could practice at home. I even added a bull barrel to it, which adds 5lbs to the rifle, to help train her arm strength for the M4 qualifications.
We’re both recently retired now, but we’re living in Minnesota near the Twin Cities, so I’m glad to have my AR-15 readily available. I pray I never have to use it in defense, but it’s an option if things go sideways in my home state. There are already civilians here defending their street corners with AR-15s on display, to deter ICE from patrolling the neighborhoods.
if things go sideways in my home state
I’m really curious, what else do you think has to happen there before you consider it sideways ?
I’m specifically referring to a civil war breaking out. We’re trying to stay peaceful as long as possible here. As long as protestors aren’t attacking ICE, Trump has no (legitimate) excuse to send in active duty troops, which he had been threatening to do.
The MN National Guard has been mobilized by our governor and are prepared to deal with active duty military if Trump sends them anyway. That’s the whole point of the National Guard; it’s a state’s protection against an overreaching federal government.
If all that fails, then citizens themselves need to protect one another. And that is when things have truly gone sideways.
Things are messed up right now, but there’s still a chance to recover from this. Once actual war breaks out against our civilian population, that’s when we’re truly fucked.
Serious question here not trying to be a troll/dick. It feels like a one sided war already. ICE has killed or wounded multiple people now and nothing has been done about it. In fact those in power have said nothing will be done about it. The police force seems to be on the side of ICE (please correct me if I’m wrong I’m not in MN) At what point do we draw a line and say enough is enough, take one of ours we take one of yours. I’m asking because I don’t know, it just feels like we are all yelling and marching and not much is changing.
As a former military member, I can attest that there are escalation measures in every conflict. Every act might trigger a response from the opposition. So it’s very important to weigh every action carefully before performing it.
In this particular situation, escalation appears to be the end goal of Trump. He wants people to rise up, because it gives him an excuse to declare Martial Law and shut down blue states, as well as stopping elections from continuing until the “escalation” is under control.
Think of Star Wars, Episode III. Palpatine was a senator, causing mayhem and chaos in the background to cause civil unrest among the Republic. Once he was outed as a Sith Lord, he survived the assassination attempt on his life and used the attack and disfigurement of his face to convince the government to grant him temporary emergency control of the government until the “threat of the Jedi Order” was under control. Then he conveniently forgot to return his emergency powers, declared himself emperor, and formed the Galactic Empire.
This is kind of what Trump is doing, in a sense. Martial Law is emergency military control over a nation granted to an individual. Elections aren’t held during Martial Law. If Trump can enact Martial Law and prevent us from holding the November elections, he can further solidify his power over the US. He’s already started up the “we shouldn’t have elections” rhetoric again.
ICE is already violating the law, breaking our Fourth Amendment rights, and kidnapping people in the streets. The federal government has given them a free pass to do it. But they’re just waiting for us to have enough and act in anger or violence in return so Trump can send in active duty military members to take over control of the state.
We can’t let it get that far, so we’re doing everything in our power to protest peacefully and hold the line. Eventually, he’ll realize he won’t get his way and he’ll move on. Or he’ll push ahead anyway and we’ll have more of an excuse to end his dictatorial reign.
Right now, we’re just gathering evidence. When this is all over, we can use the legal system to punish all involved in the human rights violations. But as long as Trump is in power, we just have to hold the line and document everything. It seems like nothing is happening right now, but we’re letting Trump “Fuck Around,” so later he can “Find Out.”
A five year old found out while you were letting trump fuck around. You and I have drastically different definitions of sideways.
We can look to the civil rights movement as an example of how to successfully enact change. Hundreds of people were killed either directly or indirectly by the state or states inaction. Thousands were injured.
Peaceful, stern protest with minimal escalation is exactly how you keep the support of outside-group ally’s. You need that. You really need that. We are a vast land mass with drastically different cultures throughout.
The alternative is more total bloodshed.
People are going to die, people are going to be injured. All we can do is attempt to control “how many” and “for how many years”.
Let’s say by some magic every person who thinks like you do is suddenly armed, in a group, and is willing to die for their ideas. Let’s say this group escalates the issue with force. How many ICE die? How many of this group dies? Now…. How might politicians spin this conflict? Think it is in your favor? Hell no. The conflict lets them abuse more power. Could it be used to expand executive authority until Trump literally dies of age? How many years is that? Is it worth it to find out?
The US civil war was the single deadliest conflict the US was in. We have only gotten better at killing each other since then.
You may have a different measure of “gone sideways” but I’m guessing thread OP has a much clearer action plan and understanding of just how sideways things can get. Our leader is still “playing” with the idea of a dictatorship. We aren’t actually in one by ‘law’ yet. That distinction is delicate and extremely important.
I get what you and cobysev are saying but it seems to me that restraint didn’t work out so well for Germany. We do live in a different time though, where the atrocities and violence by the government is easy to see. Everyone has a phone and access (until they end that too) to the videos. I think part of what matters is if the military would side with Trump. Which is why I wonder if quicker action is better before Trump finishes purging the military. Hitler had the support of the military at first so it made it easy for him to do many of the things he did, it was only later that the German military leaders opposed him (not all of them).
I guess what it comes down to is how many people are we willing to watch die/be maimed before something happens. I am personally not sure that even if the Dems win the midterms anything will change. They seem mostly spinless to me and far more about saying they are anti Trump than being anti Trump, again not all of them. I have been at to many protests where Dem reps will be on the mic saying things like “are we going to let him get away with this” or something similar and people are yelling and cheering. All I keep thinking is he is getting away with it and has been getting away with it and you are not really doing anything.
Mostly I guess if I am being honest I am frustrated and worried and do not see a way any of this ends well.
In the real world, lone wolves die first.
And yet people still believe in this spaghetti western macho Rambo gunslinger bullshit. Here’s a funny tidbit: in the military there’s no such thing. Even snipers work in pairs.
If you own a gun and you go fight by yourself against your tyrannical government, you die. Probably within minutes.
So, not sure how unpopular your opinion is, but it sure as hell is realistic.
There are plenty of hunters that have them in Sweden. In fact when they tried to ban the AR-15, there was serious backlash from the association of Swedish hunters. I think it mainly affected the right wing party in government as they were imposing the ban on their constituents.
The ban was discussed after the mass shooting in Örebro 2025, where the shooter used an AR-15.
I dont really know where i stand on the issue anymore. Since you need to be a licensed hunter and register the gun, most precautions are met. i don’t really see a difference between one semi-automatic rifle and another either. I guess i don’t think they should be banned in sweden, as it would appear that we were able to have them for decades without incidents. Given that the rules are in place and registration is mandatory.
If it’s chambered in 5.56 it is not the best option for hunting. The round is smaller compared to hunting rounds and is designed to reduce recoil so you can fire it in bursts or in quick succession for suppressive fire. You don’t need suppressive fire for hunting though, you want one good clean shot to the vitals, if you empty a clip into a deer you’re liable to destroy a lot of the meat. Also since it’s smaller it has a higher likelihood to wound rather than kill which is unethical as the animal is suffering, and is annoying as you then have to track the wounded animal.
If you’re using an ar-15 to hunt it’s not because it’s the best gun for the job, it’s because it looks cool and that’s not a valid reason to keep them around.
… No serious hunter who is hunting with an AR 15 is going to be emptying an entire magazine into a single target.
It is a weapon that can be used for fairly rapid suppressive fire or successive point fire… but it can also just shoot one bullet at a time, pretty accurately, a pretty decent distance away.
And while sure, a 5.56 is maybe not strictly optimal as a hunting round in some scenarios… it is totally capable as a hunting round in many hunting scenarios.
There are many rounds that are specifically geared toward hunting… that are comparable in size and velocity to the .223 / 5.56.
There are many kinds of game where a round roughly the size and velocity of a .223 / 5.56, from the right range… where that round is a reasonable and effective way of taking down your target, with a single well placed shot, without overkill, and without being underpowered.
Yes, there certainly are some animals and ranges where a 5.56 would be ineffective and you’d basically just be needlessly harming and injuring the animal but not likely to kill it any kind of quickly.
Generally speaking, in the US, there are a myriad of laws that govern what kinds of animals can be legally hunted with which kinds of rounds, through which kinds of guns, at which ranges, though the specifics of this vary considerably by region and locale.
Its not really accurate to say that the .223/5.56 is like, somehow, uniquely unsuitable as a hunting round.
It is entirely possible to take down the approriate sized game from an appropriate range, with one well placed .223/5.56 round.
Indeed, the 5.56 … basically just is a beefed up, militarized version of the .223, which was originally a hunting round.
The .223 also just still is a common hunting round.
Also your reasoning about how hunters do or should reduce the animal’s suffering doesn’t make that much sense.
With most kinds of game, an ideal shot will go through both lungs and the heart.
But big animals are big, and it’ll take em a while to bleed out. This is this case with basically any kind of round being used to hunt any kind of game of moderate to large size.
Its pretty rare to get a shot that just instantly kills an animal.
You are basically always going to be tracking them for some distance… and even if they drop dead in place, you have to make the trek from where you are to where they are, which could be … roughly a 1/4 of a mile, 1/2 a kilometer, across difficult terrain.
Guns are also not as easy to shoot, and many more factors go into their accuracy, than you would think from just watching movies or playing video games.
Shooting, marksmanship, is a skill, really a set of many skills, and no amount of … perfectly made, superior weaponry… will magically make an unskilled or low skill marksman into an expert.
For the record: I’ve never actually gone hunting. I do not own an AR 15.
I don’t think I could bring myself to end another living creature, aside of being in some self defense situation like for some reason a mountain lion is inside my apartment.
But I’ve known hunters, know at least something about hunting, and I do enjoy going to a range and just target shooting, every so often.
An AR 15 is a practical weapon, that can be used to moderate or great effect in a wide variety of possible scenarios.
They are also plentiful and fairly cheap, at least you can get some variants fairly cheap.
They are also very modifiable and customizable so that they can be better at certain tasks, then reconfigured to be better at some other task.
I’m not even trying to argue that… mass civillian ownership of AR 15s is good or bad, I am just trying to explain why a lot of people have them, and do not necessarily have them for dubious or delusional reasons.
Though there certainly are a lot of people who I would say do have them, or maybe, have as many as they have of them, for dubious and delusional reasons.
Not saying you can’t use it for hunting, just that it’s not optimal and you don’t need one to hunt. Therefore it’s not a valid reason to keep them legal, as you can and should be hunting with something else.
Also your reasoning about how hunters do or should reduce the animal’s suffering doesn’t make that much sense.
With most kinds of game, an ideal shot will go through both lungs and the heart.
Yeah and you’re less likely to hit those vitals with a smaller faster round. Yes if you’re a very good shot then you can hit them but with smaller rounds you’re more likely to miss them, wound the animal and then have to track it down, further then if you hit vitals, to get another shot at them. The more you’re able to reduce the chance that you wound an animal without killing it the more ethical hunting is, part of that is using larger caliber rounds.
For that reason no hunting guide is going to recommend using 5.56 on anything bigger then a raccon. They’re fine for smaller game but don’t offer much advantage over a .22.
What, in your mind, are optimal weapons for hunting?
How do they differ from an AR 15?
I have tried to spell this out in more detail, but let me say it more plainly:
There are many hunting scenarios where a 5.56 or .223 is optimal.
I … don’t know why you think this is not the case, or maybe I am misunderstanding you and you have some other set of criteria, or are saying something else?
Yeah and you’re less likely to hit those vitals with a smaller faster round. Yes if you’re a very good shot then you can hit them but with smaller rounds you’re more likely to miss them, wound the animal and then have to track it down, further then if you hit vitals, to get another shot at them.
Ok so, with respect, you seem to fundamentally not understand how bullets work when they hit things.
Roughly, Kinetic Energy = 1/2 (mass * velocity^2)
When a bullet impacts flesh, as it travels through the target, it creates what is called a hydrostatic shockwave, or shockfront, or shockcavity, inside of the body.
A high powered, high velocity bullet does far, far more damage than simply drilling out exactly what it plows through.
https://brassfetcher.com/Wounding Theories/Velocity of Radial Expansion.html
You can go into a lot more detail by reading all of that if you like, but to summarize:
A .22lr and .223 / 5.56 are roughly the same diameter of bullet.
But a 5.56 has an average muzzle velocity of roughly 3000 feet per second, while a .22lr has an average muzzle velocity of about 1000 feet per second.
So, the masses of these two rounds are not too much different, but the velocity is 3x higher, and the velocity component is squared, when determining kinetic energy.
What that means is that a high velocity round creates a huge temporary cavitation within a target, many, many times wider than the bullet itself.
A low velocity round behaves more like the way you are thinking, where basically the bullet only damages tissue that it directly passes through.
So, put those two things together, and what you end up with is that a rifle round, such as .223 or 5.56… you don’t need to have the bullet directly pass through all the vital organs.
If you get anywhere close to them, they’ll get shredded, ripped apart, cause massive internal bleeding anywhere that internal shock cavity fucks up.
When you see a gruesome, gaping exit wound, what that is is the shock cavity opening up and exiting the body.
For that reason no hunting guide is going to recommend using 5.56 on anything bigger then a raccon. They’re fine for smaller game but don’t offer much advantage over a .22.
See, hopefully you now understand why this is incredibly innacurate.
A .22lr into a Raccoon is … sure, we’ll call that reasonable for killing a Raccoon, at say, 50 feet.
… a 5.56 into a Raccoon at 50 feet would literally blow off huge chunks of its body, could potentially just actually blow it apart into multiple seperate pieces.
Because a 5.56 carries roughly 9x the amount of energy as a .22lr.
You can go look up how you are also just factually wrong, if you prefer, as to what kinds of animals are legal to hunt with .223.
They include coyote, white tail deer, pronghorns, and feral hogs.
EDIT
As an aside… the hydrostatic shock effect is the actual reason why shooting fish in a barrel is so easy.
You don’t have to hit the fish with the bullet to kill them.
The hydrostatic shock of the water trying to get out of the way of the bullet kills the fish in a similar manner as the pressure wave from a bomb kills a person.
What, in your mind, are optimal weapons for hunting?
A rifle with a caliber .300 or greater for hunting anything bigger than a raccoon such as boar, deer or elk.
How do they differ from an AR 15
The size of the bullet, again assuming it’s chambered in 5.56, I guess you can get ars in a larger caliber but they’re less common.
There are many hunting scenarios where a 5.56 is optimal
Ok name one then. They are not optimal for hunting boar or deer, just google it if you don’t believe me. You said they aren’t the best for small game either as they’re overpowered, same with birds, so what should you be hunting with an AR ?
Seriously just google this, I’m not gonna argue the math and ballistics with you because I honestly don’t know them that well and am going to take the many testimonials and guides online of actual hunters. You can even ask your friends who hunt if they would recommend using 5.56.
Also legal doesn’t mean ethical, you can hunt elk with a handgun here in California legally, that doesn’t mean it’s ethical. There are no restrictions on caliber size, just that it has to be center-fire and soft point. Idk if California is strict or lenient on hunting but I assume it’s pretty strict relative to the rest of the country.
EDIT: apparently California is lenient and it looks like it is also illegal in some states to hunt deer with .223 including Illinois which requires .300 and above for hunting deer, but that must be because the law makers don’t understand ballistics and cavitation.
A rifle with a caliber .300 or greater for hunting anything bigger than a raccoon such as boar, deer or elk.
Oh, ok, so you mean an AK-47.
That’s a .300 caliber rifle.
The size of the bullet, again assuming it’s chambered in 5.56, I guess you can get ars in a larger caliber but they’re less common.
AK 47s are pretty common.
Ok name one then. They are not optimal for hunting boar or deer, just google it if you don’t believe me.
No, you’re wrong, they are.
Just google it if you don’t believe me.
Seriously just google this, I’m not gonna argue the math and ballistics with you because I honestly don’t know them that well and am going to take the many testimonials and guides online of actual hunters.
Hahah, ok.
I’m not arguing with you.
I just gave you a physics lesson.
You can be too lazy to read it or too incompetent to understand it, but you’re not gonna be able to argue with it.
Because its just true.
I was being polite up till this point, but you’ve entirely disregarded 90% of what I’ve said.
Its also hilarious to say you’re not going to argue with me, and then keep arguing with me by providing other arguments.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
And, you’re being immensely disingenuous now, you’ve gone beyond ignorant into willfully ignorant.
As such, we’re done here, fuck off.
Yeah, hunting with an ak would be better then hunting with an ar-15 in 5.56
No your wrong Just google it if you don’t believe me
Since you don’t seem to want to google “x hunting caliber recommendation” , or you did and saw that nobody thinks 5.56 is the way to go and came back here mad that you couldn’t find anyone to back you up, here’s some guides:
Here’s a boar hunting guide recommending:
You might get off a few follow-ups with an AR-15 before the pigs disappear, but without head shots, you’re unlikely to recover many animals — especially if you’re using standard calibers like the .223 or .300 BLK. AR-10 platforms in .308 work better (I’ve used them shooting pigs at night with thermal vision), but those rifles are heavy, expensive, and cumbersome in a stand. They’re great shooting rigs, but not my favorite hunting platform.
Here’s a guide on the top 10 hunting cartridges for deer and look, 5.556/.223 didn’t make the list
And here’s a guide for elk hunting cartridges and again 5.56 is nowhere to be seen
Seriously just find a single person who’s hunted before and recommends using 5.56 and I’ll admit I’m wrong. You will get some people who have done it but it’s not making anyone’s top 10 list. Maybe thats because they can’t comprehend your physics lesson but I’d say they can understand what bullet makes the animal stop moving.
You don’t know what you’re talking about
Neither do you, neither of us have hunted before, so we should both listen to the people who have. I’ve been looking into boar hunting recently and all the guides I’ve read recommend large caliber rounds to lower the chance of wounding the animal, which is why I made the first comment. So I’m going to take the words of people who have done this before over your physics explanations and when I do hunt it will be with a .300 or above.
‘Worst case scenario even if they don’t respond you’ll still be training and learning how to work in a group, and you can be a spy and learn their tactics and how to defeat them in the case of a civil war.’
I can think of way worse scenarios than them ignoring my attempts to convert them. Maybe the right wing gun psychos might do gun stuff.
What’s wrong with LARPing?
What if I own my AR’s because I like to shoot them?
That’s LARPing.
What role am I playing
School shooter? iDK, it’s your LARP.
Gun Enjoying Man
