Example: As far as sports go, I’m in the 3rd mentioned category, I don’t give a shit which side wins, and I don’t even bother watching.
Example: As far as sports go, I’m in the 3rd mentioned category, I don’t give a shit which side wins, and I don’t even bother watching.
Pretty good showerthought, NGL. And yes, likewise about sports teams, what meaningful connection do I have with these people? Lol. I’d get it if your brother played for the team, or you had money on them winning, but if not the outcome is just inconsequential, right?
But then you see all these people in love with their preferred teams, crying even, and I’m like “why?”, and if this is how you feel about some strangers good at moving a ball, did you have a heart attack from happiness when you got your first kiss? Did you have to be resuscitated when you learned your wife was pregnant? Usually, from what I’ve seen, they didn’t, but they did have all these feelings for these random groups of people. 🤷
My understanding is that these experiences with sports are very similar to the equivalent of religious experiences. Both have songs, chants, and rituals. Both provide a sense of belonging and community. Both have an in group and an out group. Both highly revere influential figures, both past and present. Both have clearly defined enemies. Both follow a regular yearly schedule, with important dates throughout the year.
Most of those attributes can also be applied to a wide variety of human interests. I would be very surprised if those who didn’t share any particular interest weren’t also confounded by the intensity of some of those engaged in that interest.
On an unrelated note, it’s good to see you again friend. It’s been a “long” time eh?
It’s only superficial though, and completely circumstantial (I was born here so this is my team, or this is my dad’s team, idk). Sure, many people who consider themselves religious also don’t believe in anything actually and just go along with the rites and like to be part of a larger group (whatever the group is or stands for is inconsequential, I guess, just like in sports) because they’re silly people. I just couldn’t, I’m not ignorant enough not to recognise it’s completely shallow and meaningless. Like, what does it mean to be to support different teams when, in the end, we both love football? And again, I have IRL enemies such as Zionists, general imperialists, rapists, etc, because we fundamentally disagree on the basis of morality but when it comes to football how does that apply? You like football, I like football, we both like football, it just so happens that I was born in this city and you were born in yours! We don’t disagree on anything, we just want this team or this other one to win because of whims and habit. But if, for example, the average American experiences and processes belief the same way they do football teams, I guess that explains a lot, lol.
And hi! 🤣
Very true! But the same could also be said of many, if not most religious people. I was born to parents who followed this religion, grew up following this religion, and therefore this is my religion.
What does it mean to believe in different Abrahamic religions if they all believe in the same God? What about polytheists or atheists who follow an identical moral compass without the belief in the same God?
It’s the tenets that they choose to value what makes the difference, I guess. Those who don’t even read and just wear a cross and say “Jesus!” every so often, I’m not really sure what they value… but every Paulian doctrine has a clear disconnect between actions and the destiny of your soul (because you don’t merit God’s promise by your acts but it’s all grace and believing Jesus is God or something like that, whatever that means, lol) whilst Islam and Mosaic Judaism don’t (Jesus and his message are included, ofc, the man was a Jew of the times).
As much as I dislike saying this out loud because I don’t feel like hurting some good people’s feelings, the reality of things is that Trinitarians are slightly confused manworshippers who follow state Roman doctrines more than Jesus and “the law and the prophets” he followed, so I don’t really consider them as part of the same group. Islam and Judaism (and the OG Jesus followers who called him rabbi and not God are part of both or either, ofc) are actual Abrahamic, Mosaic and Solomonic monotheists, with clear rules (the Ten Commandments, or the whole Qur’an) and consequences. Like a disciple says in the Bible (the author escapes me right now): “you believe in God? Demons do too! Show me your faith without works and I’ll show you my faith through my works!”
And I guess it depends on the atheist but a more or less righteous one is walking the walk, because it’s right and they feel it, even if they cannot talk/cannot comprehend/are not interested in the talk. Sometimes the “problem of evil” and traumatic experiences with so-called religious folk just push people away from anything with the “religion” label, and it’s very understandable. 🤷
Regarding the teachings of Paul, that’s another area where we both agree. I’ve never understood why Christians put so much weight behind the words of a man, even when they contradicted the words of Jesus.
How do you feel about polytheists and atheists that follow the same moral compass, but do not share the same religious beliefs?
This is absolutely amazing. I said absolutely nothing at all about religious beliefs, but here we are…
This is exactly why I don’t follow religion at all, I prefer science.
Like what the hell, more wars are fought in the name of [insert diety name] than any other cause.
The following of a diety seems to cause more violence than anything else I’ve ever seen in my life, so I choose to not follow an imaginary diety in the sky.
I prefer to just exist and be a constructive, helpful person when I’m needed. Fuckall with all the wars over ‘holy land’ and all that violent jazz…
I never meant for this post to lead to arguments, but here you folks start it anyways.
Shame ☹️
I also prefer science and reason to faith and religion. With that said, I take full responsibility for driving this particular thread of the discussion in this direction.
I hope our discussion has been cordial, and hasn’t muddied the overall post. I didn’t mean to drag you or anyone else into this, and I’m sorry if this discussion caused any harm or triggered any negativity. I’ve experienced religious trauma in the past and I know how debilitating it can be.
Nah, you’re cool. Honestly, I kinda expected such discussion to come up somewhere along the way, I just didn’t expect it to come up so soon. It’s all good though.
If anything I figured such discussion needed to come up anyways, just not by my words.
Stay safe, stay warm, and bring happiness to the world. No reason to argue (though I’m not exactly innocent myself), but let’s try to have a good new year, new decade, and beyond…
I think belief in God, the Day of Judgement and Heaven and Hell act as stronger deterrents against immorality than just the (accurate but easier to bend) belief that some things are good and others and bad and you should pursue the former and avoid the latter (which can be believed by a non-religious person in a vacuum, but for the rest of us these limits are defined by God so if our feelings or whims conflict with it it doesn’t really matter cause it wasn’t up to us).
And, also, because I believe God is all the wonderful things He is, I assume He’ll also be soft on his approach, even if the person was yapping wild things online against God and whatnot at some points in their lives. They were just confused, perhaps emotionally compromised, but at the end of the day they tried to do the right thing regularly, and that counts for a lot. That’s the biggest part, in fact. IMO, if, for example you let go of a potential lucrative move because it was immoral, then whether you see it/want to see it that way or not, you were worshipping God.
This was never meant to be a religious post, but thanks for reminding me why I don’t follow, it starts too much shit.
Check my other comment, and can you folks please chill? There’s private messages if you wanna talk about the imaginary dude in the sky.
It’s been a very polite convo but fair enough, it’s more your thread than ours.
This is an area where I disagree. I personally think that the “golden rule,” treat others how you want to be treated, is the only foundation of morality that is needed. That can mean different things to different people, so perhaps a more accurate statement would be: “treat others how they want to be treated, because you want the same.”
If someone’s foundation of morality depends on an all powerful authority that can exclusively define what should and should not be punished, I worry about what they might do if they interpret the message of that authority to be harmful to otherwise innocent people.
I don’t get the fascination with sports either, but I get emotional about the stories in video games. I imagine someone who loves sports but doesn’t care for video games might view my tears over pixels as pathetic. My outrage at imginary injustice from a judgemental npc as ridiculous.
I have all these feelings for random collections of pixels on a screen. They can have their feelings for random groups of people.
I have to stop myself from mocking my brother in law for yelling at his TV on apparently bad plays, because I definitely have yelled at my screen before over a death, or plot twist.
Ehhh, I think it’s different, because whether it’s pixels or ink on paper, it’s an exploration of ideas, the representation of a situation in which you empathise with the characters and put yourself in their shoes, understanding why they reacted the way they did and going through their ups and downs together in your imagination. It has substance, something to actually feel about. Sports are more like betting, just circumstantial at its core, feeling the victories and losses strongly just for different reasons. Sports and having a favourite team and going to the stadium and feeling like you’re part of something bigger than yourself (even if it’s utterly meaningless, you’re not anti ICE vigilante patrols or socialist activists, lol) gives them more emotional value than betting though, ofc. And Persona 3 is one of those games, for instance 🥲. Play it if you haven’t!
And I’m not saying you should bully people for being simple and having passion for things that have no depth, of course not, let them be in peace. What I am saying is that the difference is obvious, and it is a meaningless thing one shouldn’t feel too strongly about (specially because I know they don’t feel strongly for things they should!).
In my world, you never bully people.
As far as my shoes, my YouTube catchphrase is…
“If you don’t like my shoes, then don’t roll in my feet”
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DdHGMZe5nFo
Yes that’s me. Let’s all have a happy new year…
That’s some talented BMXing! 👍