• mushroommunk@lemmy.today
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    1 month ago

    The data is from UNCTAD

    Small clarification. My understanding is that it’s 40% by weight of goods carried, not 40% of ships. So still massive chunk, but not quite the same metric. Also some of those ships would still presumably be needed to move batteries and solar panels, At least for a while until we have enough for a closed loop recycling system (we can recycle like 99% of the lithium from lithium batteries, no idea how emerging sodium batteries will affect things)

    • gressen@lemmy.zip
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      1 month ago

      You need to move batteries and panels ONCE per installation, not every time you need energy.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Once per installation per x years. While battery and solar replacement seem like a long time, the massive scale needed for a global buildout will require a continuous stream of shipping. It’s not free and will never be locally produced everywhere. Obviously a couple orders of magnitude less shipping, but energy related shipping is not disappearing entirely.

        Actually I’d like to see someone do that math, out of curiosity. In a world with all renewables, does energy related shipping drop from 40% to 1%? 0.1%?

        • phutatorius@lemmy.zip
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          1 month ago

          Obviously a couple orders of magnitude less shipping

          So, for estimation purposes, that’s essentially no shipping compared to the present fossil-fuel situation.

      • PunnyName@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Recycling systems will become absolutely necessary, preferably before the battery boom happens.

    • BreakerSwitch@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Sodium based battery companies are, unfortunately, crashing right now, since lithium production has jumped so significantly that lithium prices have seen a major crash. Since price was the main economic driver for sodium batteries over lithium ones, many companies making sodium batteries are in big trouble right now, since lithium is more energy dense and at price parity

      • 0tan0d@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        CATL retooled to sodium and plans to produce both sodium/lithium hybrids and pure sodium packs.

      • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
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        1 month ago

        Which is still all due to investors not looking longer than 2 years since all of the crashing companies except Northvolt are startups. Lithium prices will always rise again at a much much higher rate than sodium.

        Sodium was always better for grid storage due to temperature charging and discharging and still plenty cheaper than Lithium Iron Phosphate that it is a replacement for.

        • 0tan0d@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Also better performance in cold environments which is important to outperform ICE cars.