Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for privacy. But between setting up the birthdate when creating my children’s local account on their computers, and having to send a copy of their ID to every platform under the sun, I’d easily chose the former.
I’d even agree to a simple protocol (HTTP X-Over-18 / X-Over-21 headers?) to that.
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It’s techno-fascism
On the one hand, it is a privacy nightmare.
On the other hand, those laws are so badly written, they will apply to things you would never consider an issue. E.g. a security camera, a router, a NAS. For each of them, the law applies, because they have an OS, they are attached to a network, and they have logins. Think about it, and it basically applies to any network enabled device.
The issue in general is that there is no organization that can be trusted to verify the age, but not find a way to leverage that into gathering some info about the child and selling it.
That aside. Age is mostly meaningless. Everyone matures at different rates. The difference in rate between girls and boys results in effectively several years meaningful difference. Like a 10 year old female muturity is more similar to a 13 years old boy than a 10 year old boy. And 18 is just an arbitrary number that happens to coincide with finishing high school. And has no actual association to maturity. This is why car rental places won’t rent to under 21s most of the time. Some hotels won’t let you have a room until 25. So trying to decide what content should be available based on age is pointless. And they know that. So they aren’t tryi g to protect anyone. They are trying to extract information they can sell.
Because it has little to do with protecting anyone and is another gross violation of privacy to serve corporate interests.
You aren’t setting up your childrens accounts. You’re setting up your accounts to show that you’re not a child. And suddenly, every single thing you use, from apps to websites, is gatekept behind an API that is controlled by the government. If checking age on social media is all it ever does, then sure, whatever. But that isn’t all it will ever do. It will creep further and further, and the details you need to provide will increase, one shitty government term at a time. And then one day, they’ll able able to decide that people in your country shouldn’t be able to see safe sex information, or abortion information, and the framework to deny the whole country access is already there, and just one small tweak away from locking you out of information that is deemed inappropriate.
If checking age on social media is all it ever does, then sure, whatever.
You’re forgetting an important detail: you submitted an official ID to prove your age. Which means your face, address, and legal name are also on record. So every time you get age-verified, you’re basically checking in with your full legal identity, leaving a breadcrumb path across the Internet of everything you do. That data can be used to track your online activities and build a database on who you are as a person, based on the things you access.
THIS is why age verification is a terrifying thing for computer access. It’s a form of government tracking that should be illegal. Cops can’t legally barge into your home anytime they want and go through your stuff. They can’t take your computer and scan it for data collection. Not without a court order.
With age verification embedded within your OS, it won’t matter if there’s a court order or not. If your computer is connected to the Internet, you’ve just publicly broadcast all your data to the world, and anyone - cops or not - can tap into that data and build a profile on you. You don’t even need to be browsing the Internet; if your OS is verifying your age, it could also be broadcasting that verification for every program you use locally on your computer. None of your data is safe; it’s all tied to your legal identity and trackable.
You’re forgetting an important detail
I wasn’t forgetting it. As it stands, at the OS level, you aren’t supplying anything to prove your age. It’s just a data field that software can read. And my point was that if that field, and social media was all it ever was, then, it’s not great, but I can understand why the OP isn’t too upset by it.
My point was more that it will never be just that.
Thats not what the current OS-level age gating is though. Its literally pick what age the account user is on account creation. You could set yourself to be 120 and that would be valid.
“current” is not what the lawmakers are thinking of though.
Nice to see lots of downvotes for stating factually correct statements while the parent post is literally all conjecture based on “well they would do that wouldnt they?” but is upvoted.
If they were planning on doing ID verification for this why would they take this half step? It doesnt make it easier for them down the road, if anything it makes it harder as there’s the ability to say “but we already have that”. If the plan was to mandate face ID why wouldnt they just go straight for that like the UK and Australia have for porn?
You are a sealion. “Factually correct” but still acting like a shitbird
Funny huh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
And there are several states that do have the age thing for porn here in the US, the biggest of which is Texas.
So exactly the same argument, while referencing an experiment where the frogs did jump out of the boiling water unless they were lobotomised. Very convincing.
C’mon, don’t be that dense, it’s is a metaphor explaining that people are more likely to accept change if done gradually as opposed to all at once.
unless they were lobotomised.
Look around. Think of the average person, half of the people are below that person’s intelligence and a good number of them vote.
No, I don’t believe you’re actually this stupid, sealion
It seems obvious to me that, invasive as it is - an OS-level “are you 18 yes/no” check at installation would not satisfy the “protect the children” crowd at all, nevermind too that immediately when/if it goes into action - every single user would suddenly have their OS downgraded to the kiddy-level unless they declare their age.
mlem is not showing me votes. so dunno what you are talking abt.
my point is that we have laws already that are perfectly appropriate to the “concern” stated, “child safety.”
any new laws will only give more access to important data to corporations who are known to do bad things with it.
that does not make it worth it. my opinion would change if there was a legit large inrush of charges using exiting laws that then did nothing to help, then one could argue we need more law. but thats just not the case today.
It doesnt make it easier for them down the road, if anything it makes it harder as there’s the ability to say “but we already have that”.
This is perfectly reasonable, but my feeling is that the real world isn’t reasonable in this way.
Consider all the infractions of liberty that have been approved in the name of combating “terrorism.” The no-fly lists. The universal warrant-less searches. All domestic communications recorded and archived for who-knows how long. The pervasive surveillance. The huge extension of CBP power to do things like raid Greyhound busses that aren’t even crossing borders.
None of these steps were prevented with the argument “But we’re already doing something about that issue.” That argument never even came up, to any noteworthy degree, in the public discourse.
Look at it this way: All sorts of websites that aren’t for kids already have banners requiring the visitor to affirm that they’re legal adults. So, we’re there: “We already have that.” But no one is seriously making that argument. Because, of course, those banners do next to nothing: Visitors can just lie. So it will probably be for OS level age verification. Thus, in creating a system that doesn’t work, the excuse for extending the system, to exert more control in the future, is built in from the start.
People who are interested in asserting more control over others are never content with the amount of control they have. They always want more. It is the gaining of more control that motivates them.
I actually used this same example further up. Yes the GWOT made some terrible legislation that has done real damage, but it wasnt a slippery slope. They didnt make laws a little bit invasive but generally ok before slowly nudging it further until it got to the point where it was able to be used for ill. They went in hard and fast with abusable legislation which could be criticised for what it actually was, not what it would lead to in further legislation down the line (and it was criticised at the time).
…it wasnt a slippery slope. They didnt make laws a little bit invasive … before slowly nudging it further
I disagree.
There was a certain (large) amount of government surveillance and eavesdropping going on before the GWOT, which was used as an excuse to massively expand it. There was already inspection and security and traveler record-keeping at airports before the GWOT, which was used as an excuse to expand those. CBP had long had the legislative authority to do all kinds of nastiness within 100 miles of a border before the GWOT, which was used as an excuse to step their activities up, to legal limits and beyond.
In every case, an initial claim of urgent, exceptional authority was used to create both the physical infrastructure and the cultural permission required to make later, expanded claims of urgent, exceptional authority much easier to implement when an excuse presented itself. That is the slippery slope, we really slid way down it, it’s a real phenomenon. It doesn’t have to be smooth or gradual, it can happen in jerks and waves. It doesn’t have to come as a result of a plot, a plan, a deliberate conspiracy, it can be an accretion of individually opportunistic acts.
“You gave us that previous bit of private information what’s a little bit more. You can trust us”
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Won’t someone think of the poor bigots! They’re getting banned without getting to defend their bigotry!
Ada is a fantastic admin and she does an incredible job keeping shitty people off of blahaj.zone. Sounds like you’re mad you got banned for being shitty.
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Oh fuck off. She never pointed to any comment or post of mine for the reason. And she kept being weasely as fuck about it. Probably because she knows I’m right.
Modlogs are public, and come with removal reasons
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I haven’t banned any blahaj based accounts with that ban reason in the last 12 months.
To give a summary of the remote accounts I’ve banned in that time though…
- Said that “all land is stolen” to downplay genocide, and then called people delusional when another person said that doesn’t make it ok.
- A troll with a mile long modlog who said that arab community “got what they deserved” when Trump implemented a travel ban
- Another person in the same thread as person number 2 who said basically the same thing
- Same as person 2 and 3
There were a couple of accounts that had been deleted, and no history was available. And a couple of accounts where content was removed, and/or a community ban was implemented, but no other instance bans.
I’m quite happy to stand by all of those bans. And if you aren’t sure why they’re ban worthy, well, banning you was the right choice…
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Yep. This is pretty much it. Require having popular operating systems to have child accounts as an option would be reasonably ok. But regular accounts shouldn’t need any verification. ID checks wouldn’t need to be anywhere near this either. Its on the parents, they didn’t setup a child account? They are to blame.
My calculator doesn’t need to know how old anyone is. Nor does my refrigerator. I suppose a case could be made for a router if you are all onboard for age gating everything privacy and freedom be damned. An OS isn’t just Mac or Windows… the CA law is just so so dumb as written that I have zero faith in anything from Silicon valley.
At least my printer already has a scanner I can put my ID into. How am I going to tell my smart fridge, that I’m not too old for the snacks with cartoon characters on the wrapper?
Voice recognition with the latest brainrot phrases built in, grouped by generation.
“That’s gnarly, bro” - Millennial
“Skibidi Ohio Toilet brah” - Gen Z
"6 7 6 7” - Gen Alpha
Lots of people are about to be born on 01-01-1900. I guess 01-01-2000 works now though. Man, I’m old.
Because it will only be a simple birthdate until they decide to use those laws to go even further.
No. As soon as you’re sending in your official ID your entire online presence will be tracked to your ID by the government, Google, Meta and the likes. Privacy is totally gone by then…
Its the principle for me
If they say they’re doing something “to protect the children,” you know it’s some truly heinous shit.
What I’m really confused about is how are we going to confirm at account creation that the age is correct? Or that the person using the computer is who the account is for?
Because I don’t give a shit what your kids do on the Internet, and there are already plenty of tools for you to curate the experience for them.
Wrong technical solution to a made up problem.
Governments have commissioned enough studies to know that education, training, and parental controls filtering content at the receiving end are more effective & less infringing of civil rights than laws imposing restrictions & penalties on website operators to comply with online age verification. Laws could instead allocate resources to promote the former in a major way, setup independent evaluations reporting the effectiveness of child protection technologies to the public, promote standards & the development of better standards in the industry. Laws of the latter kind simply aren’t needed & also suffer technical defects.
The most fatal technical defect is they lack enforceability on websites outside their jurisdiction. They’re limited to HTTP (or successor). They practically rule out dynamic content (chat, fora) for minors unless that content is dynamically prescreened. Parental control filters lack all these defects, and they don’t adversely impact privacy, fundamental rights, and law enforcement.
Governments know better & choose worse, because it’s not about promoting the public good, it’s about imposing control.
OS defined does seem the best way, but I would prefer it wasn’t legislated. The people writing these rules have no clue about the real world, so they end up doing stupid things.
