- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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there is a
maleloneliness epidemicFTFY
I think it’s phrased like this because it’s less acceptable for men to express feelings like sadness or loneliness. men and boys who are lonely and alienated can more easily fall down the Andrew Tate/4Chan/Jordan Peterson/blackpill pipeline which yields violent extremist behavior. Obviously it’s not only men
Yes, it’s because despite the problem being the same for everybody, the “treatment” has to be very different. So it’s better if you break it down into two different epidemics.
And one gets more attention because every single well known and applied procedure to fight the epidemics don’t work for them.
Women don’t have the same issue because it’s socially acceptable for them to have deep emotional connections with their friends, where as men are mocked for being gay if they open up to their buddies about any kind of difficult emotion.
I have had the good fortune of being borderline gay with all my friends for my whole life. I wish it upon everyone
i don’t think so, if there was another context i would absolutely agree with you, but following the discourse this, on my eyes this is phrased more like “men are getting more lonely but not women” or “men are getting more lonely, and it’s because of women”; if it was another person, this would be the case, but this text did not mentioned any social acceptance of man’s loneliness
You’re not wrong. I think if anything this is making fun of men who fall down the hate pipeline
“All lives matter”
yes, i am a fascist bastard, how have you noticed? was it because i frequent a niche leftist-leaning decentralized social media, or because i have a penguin on my profile picture referring a left-associated group of operating systems that has much of it’s community ramble about how terrible corporatism is?
There is so much to unpack here. I sincerely hope you have a therapist.
Wow.
thanks
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What’s the toxic female equivalent of Andrew Tate?
LMAO let’s not pretend like places such as /FemaleDatingStrategy don’t exist. Misogynists and misandrists are two sides of the same coin. If I have no problem saying that misogynists like Andrew Tate are shitheads, then you can admit that man-hating misandrists are also shitheads.
And don’t you start telling me “Oh, but woman-hating misogynists are worse” because then the conversation turns in to the “Oppression Olympics” and all people do is focus on arguing about who has it worse instead of focusing on actually fixing anybody’s problems. Both misogynists and misandrists are bad, and both should be condemned.
LMAO let’s not pretend like places such as /FemaleDatingStrategy don’t exist.
FDS has nowhere near the same reach as Tate, or other manosphere influencers.
And don’t you start telling me “Oh, but woman-hating misogynists are worse” because then the conversation turns in to the “Oppression Olympics” and all people do is focus on arguing about who has it worse instead of focusing on actually fixing anybody’s problems.
Yes, they are both dicks. But one group has active control of the most powerful government on earth.
Yes, they are both dicks.
Stop. Right there. That’s all you need to say.
Cut off that other crap about men “running the most powerful government in the world”. I guarantee the average man does not “run the world”. I sure as hell don’t. Do you? No? Then stop.
No more saying “My side has it worse, so your side doesn’t deserve to have your problems addressed”, neither gender should have their very real problems ignored.
There are no winners in the “Oppression Olympics”, only losers. The first step towards not being a loser is to stop thinking like a loser.
It’s giving “All Lives Matter”
Oh? Because I’ve experienced domestic violence at the hands of a woman.
Are you telling me that my life does not matter?
No, but weaponising that fact to shut down discussions about gender issues is a shit thing to do.
Like yeah, that’s terrible, and you’re choosing to use that to invalidate other people who go through that? Wow.
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That’s the reason I hate that saying so much.
It’s just a true statement. All lives DO matter.
But the hateful sub-text of the saying basically poisons compassionate people against what, in a vacuum, is just a basic moral value I hold dear.
I’m vegan, too. But I don’t feel constrained that the utterance “All Lives Matter” now has negative connotations when delivered outside the context of universal empathy. People who say “All Lives Matter” are not expressing empathy, and struggle to access theirs. It’s disingenuous, they DON’T think that all lives matter.
In an ideal world, BLM would have switched to chanting “All lives matter” without skipping a beat: Deny the assclowns their slogan, simultaneously say “yep we’re people, too, part of ‘all’, get used to it”, simultaneously, ally with other groups the US police walks all over, like neurodivergent folks.
Cut off that other crap about men “running the most powerful government in the world”. I guarantee the average man does not “run the world”. I sure as hell don’t. Do you? No? Then stop.
I never fucking said that, liar. We were talking about misogynists and misandrists (this all started with talking about Tate and FDS, remember?) , and I said the former were running the most powerful government in the world.
“Liar”?
How about instead of having an attitude problem with me, we both agree that neither men nor women should be abused and both genders have unique issues that, in a healthy society, would be acknowledged and addressed?
Or are you just here to argue with someone?
You are the one arguing in bad faith by straw-manning me. You entered this thread with a whataboutism. And you have been up and down this thread accusing anyone who disagrees with you is guilty of “Oppression Olympics” or that they don’t believe men’s issues exist.
Yeah, looknat the SAVE act and whose voting rights will be impacted by that. Women and transpeople, mainly. But they want us to think they are wittle victims because no one wants to be around a fucking bully. Amd they make fun of women’s loneliness epidemic no problem - the cat lady rhetoric. So they can stuff it.
Amd they make fun of women’s loneliness epidemic no problem - the cat lady rhetoric. So they can stuff it.
Great point.
So, no answer then?
So, no answer then?
Oh, you got your answer. You just didn’t like the answer - Probably because the answer acknowledged that men’s problems actually exist in this regard, and you don’t like that either.
You know what I didn’t like? My ex beating the shit out of me, and getting away with it every single time because just because she’s a woman.
Yep, that’s horrible and illegal. And she got away with it because the US is systematically sexist. The patriarchy sucks for us men too, I’m afraid. It demands us to be strong, unafraid, and impossible to hurt.
Feminism actually addresses this. Tate doesn’t.
Tate doesn’t.
He never said he supported Tate.
He also never said misandry should be countered with misogyny.
He pointed out that misandry is the other side of the same coin as misogyny, maybe so that you can see the issue with OPs gender war slop.
His position has been consistently that both are bad.
Don’t straw man him.
But you don’t see how the misandry leads to the loneliness epidemic?
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Tate belongs in a jail cell. Period. He is human garbage who makes the world a worse place to live in.
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I believe feminism is important nowadays, especially during the Trump years. The government is literally targeting women’s rights. That is unacceptable.
I might disagree with feminists from time to time, but I realize that overall, their hearts are in the right place. I can certainly not say the same about Tate and his ilk.
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misandry doesn’t real
Misogyny and misandry are unfortunately both very real and very bad.
we live in a patriarchy. there is no such thing as misandry.
we live in a patriarchy. there is no such thing as misandryI am a misandrist bigot, but I don’t want people to call me out on my bigoted behavior, so I’m going to claim misandry doesn’t exist.^ Fixed that for you.
Extremist beliefs such as yours are sadly a big reason why Democrats lost the 2024 election.
You are part of the problem. Do better.
The Female Dating Strategy users back on the old site.
That sub was satire. If you didn’t like it, imagine how life is all the time for women.
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I man a person who’s financially incentivized to push the agenda.
yes, the few hundred people on tumblr who hate all men are just as bad as the incel influencers making millions every year who have sympathizers in many governments
fuck off
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edit: I was being an ass. ill shut up now
in positions of power
WHERE??? incels are running the US government, what power do your man-haters even have???
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Not-so-fun fact: If you call the domestic abuse hotline as a male who’s experiencing violence at the hands of a woman, they will just hang up on you.
Source: I was in a physically abusive relationship and tried to call the domestic abuse hotline for advice, and they hung up on me.
As someone who saw the cops go over to the neighbor’s house about 15 times… They don’t care about any kind of domestic violence 😊
I refuse to belittle or diminish anyone’s suffering who’s been through domestic violence. Doesn’t matter if they are a man or a woman, I hope that your neighbor finds away to get out of their abusive situation.
damn, im really sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed.
ill shut up now
What happened to you is awful, and I know this sounds callous but it really isn’t… You need to understand that one anecdotal experience does not mean anything statistically. For every situation that you described there are hundreds (probably thousands if we’re talking worldwide) of women going through shit just as bad if not worse.
I know it doesn’t make anything better, but I think trying to understand and believe the truth, rather than the thing that makes me feel a certain way, is valuable.
Either way, I’m sorry that happened to you.
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If we upvote one, we should upvote the other. It should go both ways, or none at all
GamerGate-tier slop. “tumblristas” or whatever have nowhere near the level of influence, power or damage to society as the manosphere. When was the last time you read about one shooting up a school?
GamerGate-tier slop. “tumblristas” or whatever have nowhere near the level of influence, power or damage to society as the manosphere.
By that logic, if someone punches you with brass knuckles then you have no right to complain because brass knuckles have nowhere near the level of power or damage-dealing ability to a person as a gun does.
What? Saying one thing is on a different level is not the same as saying the other doesn’t exist.
What? Saying one thing is on a different level is not the same as saying the other doesn’t exist.
Well, a big part of men’s problem here is plenty of people do say that in one way or another - That men’s problems in this regard “don’t exist”.
I’ve experienced domestic violence before. She preferred to knock the shit out of me when I was sleeping. I don’t care how strong you think you are, you aren’t able to protect yourself when you are asleep.
I have flat-out had people tell me that “men cannot be abused by women, just like how a woman can’t r-pe a man” when I’ve told people about the situation.
How else am I to interpret that, other than “your problems don’t exist”?
Well maybe you should engage with the person you’re talking to right now instead of lashing out at arguments made by other people in the past?
I’ll engage with people when I feel it might be productive. Nobody likes talking to a brick wall.
Yeah, that’s not at all what the male loneliness thing is about at all. Was the point of your meme to make fun of how ignorant people are about this particular issue for men or were you trying to suggest the issue is invalid and the result of misogynistic assholes? Because if it’s the latter I think you just demonstrated your own ignorance and should probably spend some time trying to empathize more with men and educate yourself.
Par for the course for cm0002 to drop a devisive clickbait “meme” for engagement and disappear. I understand we want Lemmy to grow, but is this actually the kind of content we want churned out?
He spams just the worst slop I’ve seen 24/7. Honestly I think he brings the overall quality of posts down on Lemmy. I’m glad I am not the only one that noticed how frequently he posts recycled trash.
A second person I can ask. What’s the epidemic then? If it’s not men failing to meet some pretty basic standards for empathy and kindness, what is it?
Not the person you replied to.
That’s easy it’s not not wanting to come off as a creep. Where do you meet them? I have been told you cannot approach women in the bar, work, gym, through hobbies etc. Only place that is okay is dating apps and they are awful for so many reasons for everyone involved.
You don’t want to be creepy so you don’t approach people. Then you get people calling you creepy for being lonley.
I don’t think the main message is not approaching women anywhere. I think the main message is actually making friends before making a move. Not just asking someone out.
I’ve had 2 relationships and am in a happt marriage going on 10 years, and each one started by being friendly and sharing interests, because then it’s natural to go do something together sometime.
Don’t overcomplicate it, just be friendly and make it natural to spend time together.
Ahhh, yes. Intentionally being on “the hunt”. It’s a shitty model, it rarely works, and I don’t understand why it persists.
This is part of the fallacy that men are fed.
I should probably make a video on the subject, but I doubt people would listen. But the way to meet women is the same way you meet new male friends. How do you do that?
It’s already a stretch to assume that men complaining about loneliness are happy with the number of male friends that they’ve got, but it’s a bigger stretch to assume that what they did to get their male friends should also get non-male friends. There are still men who haven’t realised that women are people and that to befriend them, you need to talk to them as if they’re people, but they’re not the ones referring to a male loneliness epidemic, and would instead blame conspiracy theories where crazed feminists want to do evil deeds or whatever nonsense it is that the likes of Andrew Tate peddle. Plenty of men just don’t meet anyone new, and on the rare occasions when they do, it’s when engaging in a male-dominated hobby or at a male-dominated workplace, and so it’s another man. E.g. for reasons I don’t understand, all the bars near me where it’s quiet enough to have a conversation (the bare minimum to befriending someone) are almost exclusively attended by men. After you’ve shown up a few times, you might be friends with the regulars, but no matter how effectively you make friends with them, they’ll still all be men.
You’re probably right that no one would listen if you made a video, as anyone who needs to hear the thing you’re trying to explain is too entrenched exclusively watching manosphere influencers, and anyone without that kind of terminal brainrot already knows what you’re trying to tell them.
Maybe this is the core of what I failed to understand. The male loneliness epidemic isn’t about women. We don’t have male friends either.
It also is more than a male loneliness problem. There has been a fundamental shift in society in the last decade or so, as we get more connected online we seem to be becoming less connected offline.
It started with the near complete disappearance of "third place"s.
Honestly, I feel this comment.
I generally disagree with the whole “male loneliness epidemic” framing… But this is a legitimate point.
When’s the last time you asked someone out?
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It’s complicated because there are a variety of contributing factors and it’s not the same for every lonely man. There are some societal mores in certain demographics (e.g. urban Black men, traditional Hispanic men, traditional Southern White men) where men are expected to not talk about emotional pain or express it only in anger. They’re expected to solve all of their own problems and even complaining about a problem you’re struggling to solve makes you look weak to your peers. These kinds of societal forces cut men off from emotional support even when they have friends and makes them feel alone and abandoned even though they have people in their lives.
Then there’s stuff like boys/men getting addicted to video games and not socializing enough in person with people to create friendships groups outside of discord, that kind of thing. Like I said, it’s multifaceted. But it’s no joke and it’s not about misogyny.
Being taught to hide your emotions is part of my point. It stunts emotional growth and then they struggle to communicate or understand feelings. Which I believe leads to treating other people like objects.
I’m sorry, but that’s just not true. Being taught to hide your feelings doesn’t necessarily stunt emotional growth, and even if emotional growth is stunted, that doesn’t necessarily lead to treating other people like objects. You’re making a lot of assumptions about how people mature under these conditions. Do you have any professional sources to back this up or is it just your personal view of the topic?
I’m really struggling to get through this video. " Men are in a crisis and no one really cares"
The Fuckin feminists care. The patriarchy, and how it’s all been set up, is exactly the problem that caused all of this. The tight gender roles that need to fit certain models… That’s what feminism is here to fight.
Depends on your brand of feminism. Sounds like that’s about to become a no true Scottsman argument.
Where is all the care when I see women choosing the bear? Where is all the care when women go on TV saying men are useless and we don’t need men then laughing about it? What specifically are you talking about when you say the patriarchy is to blame? Cuz that just sounds like things I hear in the video that you struggled to get through.
Men are lonely? That’s men’s fault! Cool, guess I’ll go kick my own ass? This is why the left is completely losing men as a demographic.
And I’m saying this all as a registered Democrat in a loving relationship who is not lonely.
And I’ve said this all before the election, got down voted for it, and then lo and behold a lot of men shifted to Trump, especially in the younger demos, which have traditionally been more progressive.
You ask the average man if they feel feminists care about them and I doubt you’ll get a favorable response.
“where is the care when women are talking about themselves and their problems”
The care is when they point out that gender roles are stupid and that everyone should go to therapy.
So a video gets linked filled with examples of people who would proudly claim to be feminist demonstrate zero empathy for men, you somehow struggled to watch it for some unknown reason (maybe because it made you uncomfortable because it doesn’t fit your mental narrative) and instead of acknowledging the existence of these bad actors in your golden concept of gender eradicating feminism, you simply blame men for not being in therapy.
You are the exact problem I’m describing on the left. We’re never winning another election at this point if we’re going to be this clueless and obstinate.
Chef’s kiss.
I mean it almost sounds like an abusive relationship to me. Look what you made me do! I wouldn’t have said that if you had more therapy!
And no, I didn’t hear any of those people arguing men are useless and unnecessary arguing for the eradication of gender norms. Just the eradication of men in general.
I guess I can’t be accountable for the people claiming to be feminists who are actually misandrists. And you can’t be accountable for the anti-lonliness folks who are actually misogynists.
It’s pretty much everybody but go off I guess
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
There are multiple ways to get to the loneliness stage. The meme identifies one way that is self inflicted which starts with misogyny and spirals from there.
The problem is the format of the meme implies that the last panel is invalid, and that the conclusion “there is a male loneliness epidemic” is something only women hating clowns believe.
I guarantee if the last panel was stated like “why won’t women date me” or “I’m lonely” or even “I’m only single because of the male loneliness epidemic” then there wouldn’t be nearly as much backlash in the comments
The conclusion is that the person is causing their own loneliness by steps 1-3, but is blaming the epidemic (which is actually caused by lack of community and other non-asshole based causes).
Well then this is a poor choice of meme template, which is probably why this post is turning out to be so divisive. This meme format is used to mock a series of increasingly ridiculous statements/beliefs/actions. Here, the final and therefore most ridiculous statement is simply “there is a male loneliness epidemic”. If the intention was not to mock this statement, and supposed to mock people who blame the epidemic for their problems, there are many ways it could have been worded to be clear about that, but currently it reads to me (and clearly many people) as direct mockery of male loneliness.
Yeah, it’s more than just incels suffering.
But I comment to other people on the internet, that’s close enough
/thanksimcured
Very true. But when it comes to loneliness, I’ve heard far more about “the male loneliness epidemic.”
The male loneliness epidemic is often cited to me and used to silence women/NB folks when we try to discuss our safety and support groups. It is supposedly women’s (and other not-men’s fault) that men are lonely.
I just searched it up and apparently NPR has something about it now. https://www.npr.org/2025/02/17/1263527043/its-been-a-minute-male-loneliness-epidemic-real
Thanks for the link, interesting read( I read the transcript). A section here:
VOLPE: Yeah. Yeah. Like Harris said, it’s an easy solution. And you know, speaking of, like, some of these people, like Andrew Tate, like, their messages of, like, you know, you need to have women around you only to dominate them. And, like, those sort of messages, I think, are very appealing for men who feel like their place in the world is being threatened. And so it’s very easy to say, like, oh, yeah, like, maybe they just need a girlfriend or a friend and, like, they’ll be better.
And I think that maps neatly onto the way that we socialize boys and men, too, to sort of value that one romantic relationship, and, like, that is the thing…
This might be one of the reasons. But it is interesting that the survey says it is only 1% less of women than men feeling lonely. Would be interesting to know the country too. Not all societies are the same, and in some friendships between men are similar in connection like between 2 women.
It always reminds me of a This video
Do you have a link not hosted on Twitter?
That’s just where they posted it
I doubt the first 3 statements are the same person as the fourth in most cases
Why
I just figure if you called women dishwashers you wouldn’t know big words like epidemic. That and it’s possible to be lonely without being sexist.
Also, I hear the 4th way more often than the other 3
That and it’s possible to be lonely without being sexist
Sure, but people often misdirect their anger at the wrong things.
You are right. And snowing similarly implies that it’s cold outside. But you cannot reliably conclude whether it is snowing if you only know it is cold.
The people speaking about male loneliness epidemics aren’t the incels right? I think trying to understand the problems related to masculinity in society is exactly the opposite, trying to combat incels and the like. It has nothing to do with blaming women (at least in my experience)
I know this guy who is absolutely ridiculous about this.
On one hand, he can’t stand women’s groups, gets upset about women’s sports, can’t stop dismissing anything that isn’t solely masculine like yoga, dance, and even rages on women artists and musicians.
On the other hand, has BEGGED OUT LOUD to people (I’m not even his friend) to get him connected with “chicks”.
I have no idea how to tell this guy he’s a miserable hateful fuck who will die alone because of his own personality.
Pretty funny that lots of now “feminine” activities like horse riding, yoga and dance were originally very masculine and women got into them when men moved onto to other crap like cars and whipping each other with towels in the locker room.
Death of third places and the tech takeover of social interaction is why men and women seem to hate each other now. We don’t have much opportunity to meet romantically in person and the online space pits extremists against each other until all the regular people believe that’s just the way it is in real life too.
Can’t overlook that women being, for the most part, economically equal for the first time ever gives them more opportunity to choose as well.
I got overweight from the loss of my legs from a spinal injury. My fiancé left me and I haven’t held a serious relationship since. I am a supporter of all rights. So not all of us that are dateless. Are hateful misogynists. Some of us just had a bad deal delt to us.
The comments on this one really highlights Lemmy’s demographics. You can take the men out of reddit but you can’t take the reddit out of men lmao
What are all these “actually it’s misandry” guys suddenly doing here? Did the C-drive at Truth Social run out of space or something?
Yeah, I dunno if it was the recent migration or what, but I’m not a fan of the direction that lemmy seems to be headed. This was one of the few online discussion spaces that hadn’t been poisoned by right-wing ideology and it seems like that might no longer be the case.
Yes I know about blocking, I just don’t like doing it.
The “what about men’s issues” crowd has been here since the first big migration, mostly due to the demographic most likely to switch to Lemmy being techbro adjacent male liberals. It’s been simmering since then but only bubbles up when stuff like this gets posted. .world has been one of if not the biggest offender for annoying bullshit on this platform so just be aware when you see a comment from one of their users you’re taking a gamble on viewing one of the dumbest things you’ve ever seen in your life.
just be aware when you see a comment from one of their users you’re taking a gamble on viewing one of the dumbest things you’ve ever seen in your life.
Lol so true
Blocking isn’t implemented very well. It prunes out the entire subtree. Would be nice to just elide the problem individuals and fold the subtree.
Yours was the first comment I read, and holy shit did it get bad. I had to bail less than a quarter through the thread. Sooooo fucking fragile.
Repost of https://lemmy.world/post/28076707
Probably the same bot farm
Yeah the dude in my old neighborhood who drove a Dodge RAM but rearranged the letters so it said “WAR” on the tailgate instead, and had a bumper sticker that said “KILL EVERYTHING” in that script that’s like, “badass Gothic tribal” but in reality is just floral minus the actual flowers… Not all clown cars are smol
Maximum “never actually been in a war” energy there.
In the US, women couldn’t get credit cards without a co-signer until 1974.
Historically, women had to have a man support them if they wanted options other than poverty. Your grandma probably didn’t have many other options - it might have worked well for her, but that wasn’t a choice made freely.
I think a lot of this is that relationships are a choice now. You have to be someone that someone wants to be with. This is a good thing, but it’s also a hard thing.
It sucks to be lonely and not get laid, but at the same time no one owes you sex or attention.
In 2013/14 my common law gf applied for life insurance on herself, she was a teacher. The insurance company didn’t want to insure her without me cosigning in case she ever lost her job and couldn’t pay the premimums. Like wtf. A) its not 1950s, B) if you can’t pay you lose the insurance anyway, so no risk to them.
Feminism allowed women to become fulfilled all on their own, taking on those “typically masculine” traits of making money, doing tougher work around the house, creating stability, etc. while also maintaining the ability to have the more feminine traits like emotional support through friendships, self-care, etc. Men haven’t been socially afforded the same expansion, mostly held back by other men. Like God forbid a guy have a skin care routine, or decorate his home all on his own, that’s gay!
mostly held back by other men
That’s an important thing to note. Patriarchy hurts men, just in a different way. If women are objects, then not being able to “possess” enough or any is a marker of failure.
I’m the kind of radical feminist that would like to get rid of gender entirely tbh. I like being a man, but I kind of want it to be something we do for fun rather than force it on people.
I think a lot of men have to stop trying to live up to some other guys definition of masculinity.
memespersecutioncomplextriggersI don’t think the two are fully related, at least not causally. If 1-3 are true, then there should be a large enough pool with things in common to avoid loneliness. If this specifically means sexual/relationship loneliness than, yeah.
Third spaces going away and moving a lot online has definitely had an impact on people hanging out outside of much more niche groups. I don’t care for organized religion much, but people of various backgrounds worshipped together. People had volleyball and other local leagues made up of all kinds of people who saw a flier for it. Men (not sure if women had something similar) went to fraternal order of the whatevers. Hell, dad and I went to Commodore computer enthusiast meet-ups. I think the loss of things like that has been bad for a number of reasons, including loneliness.
then there should be a large enough pool with things in common to avoid loneliness. If this specifically means sexual/relationship loneliness than, yeah.
Your last statement is correct. Most men aren’t socialized to have deep emotional relationships with their male friends, so they have to rely on a romantic relationship to do all their emotional support (if they even do that, there’s some that are also so convinced the women will hate them if they get emotional). Women haven’t felt as much of the pain of the loss of 3rd spaces for socialization because it’s socially acceptable for them to have emotional relationships with their friends.
