I’ve been thinking lately about why, in debates (usually) about highly emotional topics, so many people seem unable to acknowledge even minor wrongdoings or mistakes from “their” side, even when doing so wouldn’t necessarily undermine their broader position.
I’m not here to rehash any particular political event or take sides - I’m more interested in the psychological mechanisms behind this behavior.
For example, it feels like many people bind their identity to a cause so tightly that admitting any fault feels like a betrayal of the whole. I’ve also noticed that criticism toward one side is often immediately interpreted as support for the “other” side, leading to tribal reactions rather than nuanced thinking.
I’d love to hear thoughts on the psychological underpinnings of this. Why do you think it’s so hard for people to “give an inch” even when it wouldn’t really cost them anything in principle?
If you’re genuinely interested, then there are people studying and talking about this (beyond the expertise of Lemmy). There’s a fantastic podcast I listen to that talks in detail and there author has written a book about how minds change. Here’s a specific episode (out of many) that is relevant, but I would really recommend listening to all:
Hot take: Lack of world-shattering psychedelic experiences.
Regular take: media designed to isolate or at least divide. Plus general trend of less in person daily contact
Lemmy is worse than reddit in almost every measureable way. The reason I haven’t gone back to reddit is purely out of principle and it’s not a principle if it’s not costing you anything.
Damn your opinions suck lmao. Were you the reason Blahaj defederated from feddit.uk?
Cuz it would be funny if one user could annoy a community so much that they decide to defedreate the entire instance.
Also the above comment being right next to:
Longest continuous edging streak. Hell, I might already hold that record anyway.
Perfect example of a reddit user lol.
What do you get out of going around insulting complete strangers? People being intentionally mean online is honestly baffling to me.
what’s baffling is that you don’t see it!
Very often on Lemmy, and maybe social media in general, discussions are pointless. People are not there to see the other side, they are there to fight for what they already think.
All these keyboard warriors think they are fighting a battle, weather its about defending trans rights or fighting antivax opinions, or whatever.
The discussion usually is for the benefit of lurkers and rarely results in changing the opinion of the opponent.
This is all true. it’s something that crosses my mind whenever I spend (i.e. waste, probably) any time at all in debate. In person too, BTW, although text feels even worse because of the way it disembodies your interlocutor.
And yet. Open debate is all we have. The alternatives cannot possibly be better. I tell myself that even if 99% of it is useless, that remaining 1% can make a lot of difference statistically. I can certainly think of occasions when I’ve changed my mind, or at least seen things in a new light, because of a single comment someone made in debate. But yes, it’s rare.
You have to do the heavy lifting, not them IMO.
For example the why should we help lazy people?!! I wonder what should we actuallydo with them then? Like you’re too lazy to work should we let them die because of their “stupidness” and errors they made?
Never changed anyone’s mind right away but you get to talk about the underlying reasons why they hate “lazy” people, and it’s often something (shocker) that has nothing to do with “lazy” people.
For example.
Edit: I use the rightwing trope here just as an example. I’m the laziest person I know!
I’m not convinced ‘lazy’ people exist. Everyone I’ve ever known to be lazy is either ADHD, depressed, or anxious. It’s a symptom of an unhealthy mind, not an inherent trait anyone possesses.
Totally!
I just used the classic “lazy beggar don’t want to work” rightwing trope here.
For sure. From my experience of having kid on spectrum, dealing with it and learning about how to help him (ok, the wife did most of the work there), we came to conclusion that almost all people have either ADHD or autistic traits, some even both. People we know that have ADHD traits are almost all a mess, add some shitty parenting or being prone to addiction and you have a recipe for disaster.
This is my experience as well. Anecdotally, at least. Lately I’ve been slowly putting together a community of friends, and my anxiety and depression have been dropping like crazy. Between that and the self-esteem boost I’ve been getting from finally starting hrt, I’m actually starting to feel competent enough to tackle things like getting a job, moving out (I’m gonna go looking at rental properties with a friend tomorrow), going grocery shopping, things like that.
God, I’ve always wanted to be able to just do something so plain as going grocery shopping for myself.
I can also tell that the anxiety causes a lot of issues with my motivation from the fact that my wonderful mom always throws worst-case scenarios at me whenever I try to become more independent. She’s been throwing the entire warehouse at me lately because I’ve been talking about how I’m moving out with a friend. My excitement has been turning to dread despite my friend’s reassurance that they’ll catch me if I fall; and as a result my motivation and ability to get out of bed has been plummeting.
But… Yeah. Anecdotally, it’s not laziness, it’s being anxious, overwhelmed, overstimmed, depressed, feeling lonely (I mean, what’s the point in doing anything if no one cares?) and so forth.
You will realise that many people are too egotistic to back down.
deleted by creator
Hmmm. There are a lot more opinions about this than I thought there’d be.
Personally, and without any real evidence? I think it’s just because conceding a point somehow feels as if it compromises your whole position. Like you’re getting scored, and admitting you’re wrong gives the other person a point and undermines your entire argument.
Read up on cognitive biases.
People are social animals. We form groups and we stick with them. Some of our cognitive biases are very clearly geared toward preserving the cohesion of the group. The truth is very much secondary to group cohesion.
Individuals vary a lot, however. And some individuals are much more open to changing their mind than others. Groups are stronger when they have a variety of different personalities within them. Different people can have different roles within the group and help it adapt to changes.
I’m not here to rehash any particular political event or take sides
checks post history out of curiosity oh.
Their name should give away that they are a troll.
the irony of their position and still asking this question is military grade, ironically enough in its own way.
To quote myself here:
I’ve also noticed that criticism toward one side is often immediately interpreted as support for the “other” side, leading to tribal reactions rather than nuanced thinking.
mmhmm, keep going…
Probably cause kids ridicule you hard if you are wrong or stand out. When you grow up, you might learn to have your own opinions, but you might never unlearn the various defens mechanisms and feelings of ridicule that developed as a result of kids around you scrutinizing you and your opinions.
They don’t want to hear it cause it is uncomfortable. And they feel like they are loosing respect and getting attacked. They rather sweep it under the rug and forget about it, sometimes not learning from it at all. Humans are also lazy.
Being wrong gracefully is a learnt skill.
In general the small points are not actually related to the overall point or are the rare exception to larger trends and are either meant to derail the discussion or show that the other person is going for gotcha points.
Oh boy. If you really wanna understand this, there are like 80 episodes of the podcast You Are Not So Smart that look at this from different angles.
There’s not really a single reason. It’s a lot of inter-related ones.
People will rather justify doublethink than admit they are wrong.
For example, it feels like many people bind their identity to a cause so tightly that admitting any fault feels like a betrayal of the whole.
That’s exactly it in a lot of cases. More on that here:
