“You know that friend that you loved? He was a piece of shit and so are you for caring about him”
Yeah basically. The person is still there. You should celebrate, not mourn, that the person you love is taking a step towards who they want to be. Acting like you lost something is incredibly hurtful, because the person is still right there, they’re just changing. If their gender expression is the only thing that made them important to you then yes, you’re a piece of shit.
He was a piece of shit and so are you for caring about him
The friend is not gone. This implies that you cared about who they were and not who they are. Any mourning is just an indicator that you don’t actually love this person, you love who you thought they were and don’t actually care about their happiness. Abusive behavior.
I’m not philosophizing. I’m interpreting what the person in OPs screenshot was saying, which seems to be “fuck you for caring about the person I was when you got to know me”.
No, it’s about the person they thought they were. You don’t magically transform into a different person when you transition. You just become more authentically the person you already were.
If your “friend” has a problem with you because they find out you’re trans, they’re a bigot.
That person still exists. Mourning their loss shows you don’t actually love them as they are.
I don’t think that’s fair. You can be happy for what someone achieved and mourn what you used to have at the same time. I have friends who got married and had kids. They’re happy and I’m happy for them. I’m still sad the old days are over when we could just drink beer in the back yard whenever we felt like it.
What do you lose when someone transitions? They’re still the same person, just happier and expressing themselves truly. You lose nothing. The only loss to be mourned would be a relationship that’s no longer compatible. It’s a change, but it’s a positive one, and expressing any form of loss to someone going through such a difficult and scary time is incredibly hurtful.
Though, you generally don’t tell that to their face, not in that way, and certainly not when they’re confiding in you about/celebrating finding themselves. That’s simply hurtful, and beyond rude.
You generally won’t go up to your friends on their wedding day, and say the same phrase. You’re more likely to put it as “I’ll miss drinking with you in the back yard, but I’m happy you’re happy”, and not as a seriously-spoken “It’s like watching my friend die!”.
How is that analogous to transitioning, though? You can do the same things with your trans friends as with your cis friends, right?
I think it’s more like seeing someone hatch XD
OH THAT IS WHY TRANS PEOPLE IN DENIAL ARE CALLED EGGS OMG I NEVER SAW THAT BEFORE!
When my egg broke, I became a chick
Okay, that was funny. That got a good “forced breath out of my nose” from me.
Actually it’s kinda the other way around, I chose the hatching metaphor because of the egg terminology 😅
Yeah but the egg terminology exists because that’s what it’s like – hatching
Guys… This is becoming a chicken and egg problem…!
Maybe insects turning from larvae to imago is a better metaphor
Sure somebody died but that somebody was never me, sorry (not) that the actural me exists now and the actural me is a silly catgirl :3
When my best friend transitioned it was like watching someone begin to exist. Nothing was lost when she came out. She became MORE. More vibrant, more alive, more enthusiastic, more driven, more creative, more HERSELF. It was like the one who was there pre-transition wasn’t even a whole person but just a shell or a mask. I’m so fucking proud of her ;~; <3
Yeeesh… I’m not sure if that’s the kind of message you want to send… Imagine someone who’s in a position where they can’t transition reading that, you’re basically telling them that right now they’re a huge loser that should die…
*trans person describes personal experience
“No! You might make other people feel bad by describing your existence!”
Them describing their experience is perfectly ok, them doing it in a way that might make someone going through the same experience feel like shit about themself isn’t.
The joke is that they already think that about themselves. The suicide rate for trans people, especially those who can’t transition, is extremely high.
When I realized I was trans I knew I had no choice but to do it, damn the consequences, because I could see the other option would only lead to my death in a pit of despair and self-hatred.
idk there’s a number of reasons why someone could choose to detransiton or delay transition, even for many years because they see no other way to survive. They’re still people and their lives are still valuable
it feels a bit like the ableist “fate worse than death” “would rather die than end up like that” stuff that disabled people have to hear occasionally. Like yes, some people do live in a compromised state! It sucks but it’s life
I know it’s higher than average, but reinforcing the feeling that suicide might be the best thing they could do because the person they are before transitioning is the biggest loser ever and people should be glad that they’re dead? I don’t think that’s ok.
You’re really working hard to miss the point here. I can’t help feeling that it’s on purpose.
The post isn’t really advocating suicide, though. It is pointing out an alternative.
Sure, but as I mentioned in my first comment, not everyone is in a position where they can seek the alternative
True, but I don’t think this post is likely to push anyone over the edge, and that really has more to do with the lethality of their situation than the use of self-deprecating humour to reach people.
As someone who’s been there, this whole line of reasoning just feels like pearl-clutching.
Not trans (I think, arguments for closeted gender fluid could be made I suppose but that’s a different conversation I don’t think I’m ready to have) but if I were trans that’s exactly how I would feel. That a person who has been able to transition is, albeit indirectly, calling me a piece of shit loser who needs to die in order to be happy.
I’m glad OOP is happy and at least on the surface is confident, but the post just made me feel weird.
The sentiment of “oh no I’m watching someone die/mourning the death of my friend/son/daughter/cousin/whatever” can get fucked though. I guess you could see it as losing someone, but guess what, you didn’t lose anyone. The person is still the person, they might act outwardly more in line with how they feel, but they are still around. Instead of lamenting the loss of a son, celebrate the arrival of your daughter. Your cousin might look and sound different, but they still enjoy talking shit about video game companies and politicians. The woman standing at the mechanic desk is still perfectly knowledgeable about everything they were before.
Just because you weren’t aware of your daughter before she came out, doesn’t make her any less valid being here now. If you can’t handle that, well pour out your crocodile tears and have your narcissistic fit of “woe is me I have experienced such loss” I guess
Sorry what is the context? I am kind of out of the loop.
When trans people transition, some people, especially parents, experience a period of grief for the person they knew. Especially transphobic ones describe that as “my son died”.
And they’re right. He killed himself so that I might live.
I pity the guy. He tried really damn hard (without much success) and then I had to murder him.
deleted by creator
Like I get that not everybody is willing to wash another person’s butt to get there but you can’t even admire the result?
It’s a mindset thing. To give an example, think of the “meat is murder” vegans. A hamburger is a marvel of ingenuity considering its worldwide success, yet to the people who vividly picture how it’s produced from start to finish the end result isn’t something to be admired.
The disgust is self-inflicted because their set of values cannot reconcile with the method used or the whole process itself.
Good point, and well illustrated. Sorry so many people got hung up on the metaphor.
Thanks. And it’s fine, we all have our differences so disagreements are bound to happen.
So you think hambörger is more beautiful than a cow’s life?
Is the argument that because there is a manufacturing process involved in making a hamburger that the suffering is worth it? I didn’t torture anyone to transition.
you mean you didn’t drain 100 people of their hormones like a vampire?
Oh, no, I totally did do that. They all consented though.
Did you just compare being trans to being vegan?
I think they compared transphobic people to vegans.
Trans people were compared to hamburgers… but you know, not fastfood hamburgers. More like really good burgers. You know, like where their buns are toasted and slathered with avocado. Maybe topped with grilled onions, and then you slide a piece of bacon in there, you know? And then you just shove it right in your face.
And then after, they can both go for burgers…I mean it’s a great comparison, just not for any of those reasons
Did you just compare transitioning to making hamburger?
It’s a pretty nonsensical analogy. I think they just wanted to complain about vegans.
That’s what drew your attention? It’s not the example itself that matters, but what it tries to convey. Still, let me try with another example and if it’s not good enough, then you’re more than welcome to bring your own.
In the above comment, that I’m replying to, the commenter’s set of values cannot reconcile with the method used or the whole process itself and as such is more likely to express disgust towards the end result.
Hope it’s better, else, please partake.
deleted by creator
