- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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I mean, I understand that this is like a very prevailing thing, but centrists exist. Especially in a modern political climate that is this polarized, being a centrist is unbelievably hard to explain to people. The left is convinced that they are very people first and very centrist and the right is convinced that they are very right and very populist.
I mean basically what I’m saying is that this actually emphasizes a problem and people just blindly agreeing with this is also a problem. I would venture to say that most people can’t recognize an actual centrist as opposed to just immediately assuming them to be a right winger. This has happened for over 10 years in my daily life. Before Donald Trump even started running for president, in 2013, I had people accusing me of being either left-wing or right-wing, when in reality, I am very much a centrist. If I use any political buzzwords to identify myself whatsoever, I will then be put into a category that which does not properly define me. I despise the Democrats, I despise the Republicans, and I despise Donald J. Trump. I don’t think anyone in the last 10 years in the entirety of this government has been worth even considering for my vote for president.
But who am I? I’m just one guy.
Please don’t hate me for saying this. I just, I see this meme and I see the comments and I just think, wow, this must be a bunch of people who have experienced like, you know, those weird people who liked Trump but no longer like Trump. My point is that like people continue to say that there’s no such thing as a centrist and I’m not saying that you people are saying that I’m saying that that is a prevailing idea and I’m sick and tired of it and this meme and your comments very much seem to perpetuate that.
Anyway, I’m done. I hate politics because it’s terrible. There’s nothing and no one to vote for. No cause to get behind that will ever truly fix it just by voting. Get active in your community, physically, and improve things on a city-wide level. And then if a ton of people do that, we’ll actually see change. That is if these tariffs don’t literally destroy our entire economy. #AmericaisrecessionproofsolongaswethreatentheFederalReserve
Disliking politics and all the current political parties doesn’t fit the technical definition of a centrist.
It’s not that centrism can’t exist, it’s that it’s commonly used as a thin pretense to cover actual partisan leanings, usually right-wing (by the general global metric, not just the US one).
Additionally, abstinence isn’t commonly a good approach by which to assert a legitimately central stance. A lot of the time a legitimately central stance doesn’t exist in a practical sense.
As stated by a commenter above “The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism”.
I personally think the concept of “centrism” isn’'t viable, not because nuance and context can’t exist but because the “center” often isn’t a useful target.
Okay, I actually agree with you on a lot of what you have to say.
Having certain dislikes of politics and to actually dislike facet of both political parties currently and having dislikes of both current political parties in order for them to be close to the center, which is again what a centrist is.
I completely agree. I think that people using the term centrist as a vague cover for what is usually fairly right wing politics is prevalent and a lot of people have seen this. YouTube personalities and posts on x / posts on blue sky / posts on freaking truth social they all claim to be centrist or they all claim to be a more “common sense voice” when they in fact aren’t and this is very prevailing and I’ve seen this myself.
My own political journey has been extreme frustration and an understanding that both sides of the political aisle in the United States specifically are so ungodly terrible that I cannot bring myself to actually cast my ballot for anyone. That is a bit of an aside because that is only my own political experience, my own political opinion. I’m not going to cast my ballot for somebody who is actively corrupt or actively making stupid choices. So that is an aside and kind of detracts from my point, to be honest.
I think likening racism to political centrism, which is, again, what you are agreeing with, is not an apt comparison. You’re agreeing with a commenter above that said “the middle ground between racism and not racism is 50% racism” Being a centrist in that agreeing with some stances of the conservatives and agreeing with some stances of the liberals is not the same thing as being 50% racist. Not at all. Being 50% racist could mean that you agreed with the South advocating for slavery as a way to keep the prices of cotton down in the United States but disagreed with slavery because it involves back-breaking labor without any payment to these poor people, you know, the slaves. The comment is honestly another thing that just shows the degradation of the political system in the United States down to two camps and two parties. It’s the idea that the entire right is effectively racist until they can prove it, and the entire left is somehow communist, and pedophiles. Then if you happen to be a centrist, if you happen to be in the middle, as I’ve met many centrists, they exist. And again, it is probably the most viable of all of the political ideologies, if not for corruption and political manipulation to herd the population into either Democrat or Republican sides.
Me saying that I believe that we should only spend money that much we can actually tax from the population, and that if we continue to spend money to an obscene degree, then we are going to have a very difficult time in the world economic stage. That is true economic conservatism. Many people who claim to be conservatives, many people who claim to be far right, many people who claim to be, you know, a middle ground right, they don’t believe in this form of conservatism. And most of them on the right don’t practice what they preach.
So I guess that’s one example of a stance that I take. And this idea that the middle ground is somehow, you know, partially siding with Donald Trump is extraordinarily stupid and just leads to people attacking each other for like no reason. Which is ultimately what I think Donald Trump stands for, which is just a bunch of people fighting in a metaphorical street fight. I agree that centrism generally isn’t viable because there really isn’t a political party that you can vote for and we only have a two-party system which again has fueled corruption in Washington and corruption in the States. I think that centrism only isn’t viable iIf you take into account the political corruption, if there was less political corruption in Washington, if third parties were viable, which again is a far shot off from the reality that we currently live in. But still, if third parties were viable, then political centrism would, I think, be in many ways, Where the vast majority of people’s political voting would land because I think the vast majority of people are actually just centrists forced to choose a side in a corrupt political system. Thanks for responding to my comment
i think we are mostly in agreement, though I’ll address a couple points of contention on my side.
I think likening racism to political centrism, which is, again, what you are agreeing with, is not an apt comparison. You’re agreeing with a commenter above that said “the middle ground between racism and not racism is 50% racism”
I wasn’t necessarily trying to equate racism with political centrism, i was using that comment as an example of how the idea of ‘centrism’ isn’t always a viable or practical one.
it could just as easily have been “The middle ground between wet and dry is 50% wet”.
Then if you happen to be a centrist, if you happen to be in the middle, as I’ve met many centrists, they exist. And again, it is probably the most viable of all of the political ideologies, if not for corruption and political manipulation to herd the population into either Democrat or Republican sides
But you can see that this reads " This would be the best option if it was possible, but it isn’t, currently " ?
I agree with the sentiment, though i disagree that the optimal location is the “centre” , as i said before.
And it seems you agree given the follow up about the partially siding with trump being ridiculous.
As i was saying before i don’t think centrism is a good label for what you are describing because it isn’t really the centre of anything, it’s some other thing on a whole spectrum of things.
I think that using the label “centrism” hurts any argument significantly more than it helps and coming up with some other , more accurate way of describing your position would greatly benefit any discussion around that area.
But labeling and categorising things is hard, especially in a concise and descriptive manner and as you say modern political conditioning tends towards thinking in rigid boxes.
As a complete aside (and a contrived , though i’d say accurate description):
In an effective two party system a vote that doesn’t correspond with either of the two sides is effectively a vote for the ultimate victor.
This isn’t a commentary on the politics of either side, i mean this as general statement on how voting would effectively work in that kind of system.
Assuming you agree with that point of view, how do you reconcile the potential ethical and moral outcomes of not voting at all ?
Genuine question, zero baiting.
In a nutshell, what this meme is about is all the people that we’ve run into who say, “both sides are bad,” because they believe the Republicans lies about Democrats, and the Republican talking points on issues. Actual centrists, in Republican lingo, are “the far left.”
I agree with this stance. It’s very hard to be a centrist, even though most people are. In today’s political climate, everyone has just decided that they must be Democrat and Republican because that benefits the Power elite, the people who are already in power, and those who use this power to try and solidify themselves as staying in power. To the Republicans, the centrists are far left, and the Democrats, the centrists are far right. It’s honestly extremely stupid that people are not really capable of seeing, you know, an actual stance, as being an actual stance, and instead just use a bunch of political buzzwords and repeat phrases that you hear all throughout the left and the right. This has led people to throwing metaphorical mud at each other in the streets and hating their neighbors, as opposed to talking it out. Just like in this thread, I mean, everyone’s down-voting my comment because they’re uneducated about what centrism means, at least that’s probably what I think they’re doing, and or they believe that they’re supporting the Democrats. (maybe they believe in my hate monger?) When in reality, political centrism is where most people’s stances lie, and that the political parties are basically saying, hey, choose a side guys, just choose the better poison of the two poisons on the table. Politics is terrible, as I said before.
Even if they’re not a right-winger and don’t claim to be a centrist, "both-sides"ing things is a waste of time, at best.
Like, when Jon Stewart came back to the Daily Show. I think it was his first show back, but it might have been his second… And his main talking point was about how both Biden and Trump were old. I know he’s just a comedian on a comedy show, but it still felt like a betrayal. At the very best, it was a waste of a chance to say something that could have actually made a difference.
I mean, they are both old, I don’t think that’s a perspective that should be discounted. That’s not a discussion on policy or who one should vote for as much as it is the understandable concern about whether either of them would still be alive for their entire second term.
I like Jon, but TDS has done more harm than good for the left.
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It just normalized the Republican CRIMINAL behaviour by making fun of it and laughing, like it was no big deal
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It made an entire generation complacent becuase people though watching TDS and jucking along was actually doing fuck all to actually fight Republicans or help Democrats.
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And finally, like you said they’d frequently have both sides segments that the right loved to echo on their propaganda networks
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He pointed out that they are the oldest candidates ever to run, beating the previous record of…the same two old white guys 4 years prior. Seemed pretty germane to mention that we have a serious lack of younger and diverse representation
I agree 100% with everything you said. Just like you said, it was a good point and definitely worth a mention. My problem is that it was the main segment of his first show back. Just like I said, a waste of time when there were much more important things to talk about.
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Comedians and court jesters have always been some of the most honest and straight forward. They don’t bite their tongue or fret over access. You shouldn’t discount them. Entertainment is one of the best methods of informing. You will spend infinitely time more learning in an entertaining way. Then beating your head against a dry impenetrable text that you struggle to comprehend.
The comedian in question is Jon Stewart, though. Do you really think that Jon Stewart has to “both sides” everything so that he doesn’t alienate his conservative audience? I doubt that you’re saying that. I don’t think he has ever done that.
It doesn’t make sense to try to generalize how comedians act when we’re talking about how one specific comedian acts, and it’s already clear that he doesn’t act like the generalization presented.
I have no doubt that Jon Stewart simply did the segment because he thought it was funny, and he didn’t care about alienating people.
The reason I’m so sure is that he predictably alienated a lot of left leaning people with his “both sides are old” segment. I say “predictably” because there’s simply no way that somebody didn’t talk to him before air and say something like, “You know, this is going to irritate the people who like you the most.”
I may be left leaning, but I am also afraid of giving voters more power over the economy. Everything we do in housing, which is something people do have a high degree of control, is screwed up. People also want a huge amount of social programs but low taxes.
If libs take the stance that you’re either fully on my team or you’re my enemy then it’s going to be a long time until you win some elections and have the ability to make real policy. Democracy is about compromise and appealing to as many voters as possible. Truth is whomever gets the independents wins the elections in the USA, everything else is just noise and excuses.
This would be all very well and good in principle, except that this assumption has now already been factored into mainstream Republican strategy. It’s now an everyday occurrence for them to say something absolutely outrageous based on the expectation that the “compromise” will be struck exactly where they want things to be.
They’re not political, they just wantt to see common sense policies on immigration (for brown people) and crime (for brown people).
Here “common sense” means incredibly harsh.
Which is a shame because immigration can be one of the greatest boons to rural America.
Social centrism ≠ traditional centrism
They aren’t that either.
this is very convenient this just means im always correct because everything else is just a right winger as if that’s argument.
Life would be better for everyone if right wingers would just shut the fuck up and keep their hands to themselves. But they just want to hurt everyone else, so their opinions are worth less than moose shit. When a right wing fuck is talking, there’s only lies to hear.
Fuck them all.
is this not a very progressive nice thing to say. maybe just maybe don’t be a fucking hypocrite. try being consistent in your values then just maybe someone would take you more seriously. advise from a centrist.
I’m fully consistent in my values, so how about you try to practice what you preach for a change?
what should that be exactly? do tell very progressive person. im not the one pretending to be so fucking virtues that everybody else is an evil Nazi if they disagree with me. its just hiding behind the pretense of virtue and then acting like how a fucking Nazi would its hypocritical bullshit your no better than any right winger your so angry about. that’s what makes this so funny. you are what you hate.
Just another conservative troll, eh? Projection is so passe, get a new bit.
dude you are just confirming what i said nothing i have said shows my political leaning. you on the other hand smear that shit over everything. you do not know what a troll is. you just call people conservative when they disagree with you. you really like categories because that makes everything so much easier its a fucking joke. i find this hypocrisy very entertaining. the inconsistencies in your believes make you very funny.
how much have you reposed this? this is only done by people with no good arguments.
The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism. That being said, they probably mean centrist in different topics. Blame two party system not the people.
them: “both sides bad” me: “republicans are bad indeed” them: 😠
I’d rather have a politician who does absolutely nothing than a fascist.
Yes, this is how the two-pronged strategy works to ensure the working class never improves its standing.
Fascism only improves the standing of those on top.
That’s what they said. You get given a choice between “drag things farther to the right” and “do nothing”, with a system designed to always collapse into two functional parties, knowing you’re too terrified of “drag things farther to the right” to meaningfully challenge “do nothing.”
It’s like a political ratchet.
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But unfortunately not one that my fellow Americans seem to have appreciated.
Seems like the left don’t approve of common sense.
As long as you’re amoral and self-serving, you can only be a “right winger”, whatever that means. It’s only when you dispel the myth of moral relativism and believe that, yeah, some things ARE wrong (and we should avoid and condemn them, of course), that you can start becoming a person worth existing and worth listening to. And if you’re not very smart nor very brave you might be a “non radical” “leftist” but hey, your heart is probably in the right place so I’m not gonna hate (too much).
It’s only when you dispel the myth of moral relativism and believe that, yeah, some things ARE wrong (and we should avoid and condemn them, of course)
You can be a moral relativist without equating someone else’s view of morality to your own. Or rather, while still only valuing your own.
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Seems like the right is retarded.
It’s not the 80s anymore. The correct term is that they are Ignorant, racist, bigots.
Not anymore, no.
Both parties are banking on the hysteria of their constituencies to stay in power.
It works.
It’s common sense from an outsider perspective that any organization that expects children to pledge allegiance to it 3000 times before adulthood is loaded with propaganda and the kids that graduate from that aren’t going to have proper common sense.
And just because other countries aren’t as obviously villainous about it doesn’t make their standardized textbooks and their corporate media (much of it imported from the propaganda empire above) that much less propagandistic.
So it’s common sense that common sense is tainted by decades of propaganda, and actually understanding something means unlearning what they taught you and looking with fresher eyes.
So you’re right, common sense is for chumps, and that’s just common sense.
This is some crazy doublethink shit. It’s clear just looking at the inconsistent interpretation from all the top-level comments that ‘centrist’ is a blanket term that both describes ‘centrist’ positions and also ‘left/right radicals’. The only consistent is whether the subject is subjecting the in-group to criticism
The same user constantly harps on ‘far-left’ progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
This is just standard ‘out-group’ gatekeeping. “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” shit.
“Bothsides types are indistinguishable both in form and in end-result, regardless of whether they claim to be centrists or leftists”
“This is crazy doublethink shit!”
The same user constantly harps on ‘far-left’ progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
what
Wait, are you talking about both sides as in the political parties, or both sides as in far left and ‘centrist’ secret nazi?
Still sick of this blaming apathetic voters for the clear failure of the Democratic Party. You had mentioned that harm mitigation trumps all moral consideration of choice. That’s short term thinking, one that has gotten us in this mess. If democrats want to play chicken putting ‘their’ progressive voting base against their neoconservative principles, that is a failure on them. Their actions after losing further prove their deficit. I warned you specifically during the election what the outcome would be because of how the democrats acted.
Still sick of this blaming apathetic voters for the clear failure of the Democratic Party.
Bruh, a third of the country sat at home and did nothing as fascism, openly stated, ran to claim all levers of power in the government. If you think voter apathy isn’t a serious contribution in this issue, I don’t know what the fuck to tell you.
You had mentioned that harm mitigation trumps all moral consideration of choice. That’s short term thinking, one that has gotten us in this mess.
Sorry, am I suppose to prioritize the feelies of people who abstained over the millions of marginalized people who are going to die because of this administration?
Sorry our lives aren’t pure enough to be worth your fucking vote.
If democrats want to play chicken putting ‘their’ progressive voting base against their neoconservative principles, that is a failure on them.
This was the most left-leaning Dem platform in fucking decades.
But hey, anything to avoid responsibility for voters ushering in fascism, right?
You mean the Democratic Party sat around and assumed they could further their own power grab because the American people had no choice but to vote for them. You mean the Democratic Party is currently sitting around doing nothing… wait, no—they are actively censuring their members who are talking truth to power. That’s much worse than if they did nothing at all.
If you’re going to blame someone, blame the ones responsible for fascism. Then blame the ones who gambled our future to further the agenda of their donors. The party knew they abandoned their progressive voter base. They miscalculated, and now they’ve doubled down. Fuck. Them.
I explicitly told you that the Democratic Party pushing neocon policies and pushing “vote blue no matter who” WOULD CAUSE VOTER APATHY. Voter apathy is a symptom, of direct democrat action. I told you I would vote for Harris—UNDER EXTREME DURESS.
What do you mean “the most left-leaning Dem platform in fucking decades”?
Fucking Bernie Sanders ran in 2016. Harris, against all reason and hope, stated directly that she would not change Democratic policy—the same policy that has ratcheted us to the right for decades. Biden, in his time as president, failed to achieve anything when he specifically had the windows to do it. So no. That is an outright lie.
Well you’re just wrong about most of this
absofuckinglutely.
This was the most left-leaning Dem platform in fucking decades.
And yet you still lost. Guess it wasn’t left enough.
Maybe this time you could avoid the national socialism and put foreigners into the equation, asshole.
We voted, alright. it’s called a vote of no confidence.
Bothsides types are indistinguishable
… Yea, see there it is. “Bothsides types are indistinguishable [in the way they criticize my party]”
[in the way they criticize my party]
What
Don’t be dense. Define ‘bothsides type’ that includes all subsets of the group you’re talking about. I’d bet pretty penny it isn’t limited to people who use the phrase ‘both sides are exactly the same’.
I’m gonna guess this is pretty close: ‘someone who criticizes the democrats without clearly signaling their electoral support of them’
Or, put another way:
[in the way they criticize my party]
Don’t be dense. Define ‘bothsides type’ that includes all subsets of the group you’re talking about. I’d bet pretty penny it isn’t limited to people who use the phrase ‘both sides are exactly the same’.
Those who present of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable.
I’m gonna guess this is pretty close: ‘someone who criticizes the democrats without clearly signaling their electoral support of them’
I mean, harm reduction is not morally optional, but criticizing the Dems without signaling electoral support is not inherently a “BOTHSIDES” reaction, excepting, say, in the immediate lead-up to an election of unusual importance wherein the only realistic options are fascism or the Dems.
When there is an immediate crisis coming up, wherein messaging is extremely important, and you choose to amplify messages that help fascists without bothering to amplify messages that damage fascists, it’s difficult to see that as anything except service to fascism.
As a foreigner, I think dems are genociding scums and now when I bump into americans here I am as aggressive as they deserve
the “obvious and important differences” are obvious and important to you because you drink the left’s koolaid while the right drinks your milkshake.
the reality is that the Democratic party exhausts it’s voters’ emotional reserves, and consequently is ineffectual at winning hearts and minds, Then they blame the public for apathy.
That is a strategy that is basically guaranteed to put fascism in power. Who knew?
The centrists knew. And when we tried to engage you in conversation about it, you ridiculed and attempted to maneuver with rhetoric, instead of truly engaging.
the funny thing about this is - or sad, maybe, I’m not sure which - is that centrists often have the emotional wherewithal to handle extreme situations. We’ve been dealing with extremes all of our lives. We see how they feed into each other because we actually grapple with the things others would rather blame other people for. We see that what the left is doing is ineffectual. We see that what the right is doing is vile. We act on it - actually take action, not protest - in the ways we can, in our own lives.
So… …if the right wins, and it really goes poorly, it’ll be a fucking shit time for all of us. But it’ll be beyond that - it’ll be hell for you who have ridiculed others instead of growing, because not only will you have to face the physical reality, you’ll have to face the psychological and emotional realities you always refused to, in the middle of everything else going to shit.
Grow, or suffer. Grow, or repeat. That is the law you are bound by, and yet you don’t make a rational choice.
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you drink the left’s koolaid while the right drinks your milkshake.
Who knew?
The centrists knew.… What the fuck? Is this that ‘anti-woke’ bullshit I keep seeing spewed on late-night talkshows? There’s nobody left in the fucking center. I only partially agree with you - democrats think it sufficient to pound the drums of ranbow-capitalism, when it’s the capitalism part that voters are actually livid about. Apathy doesn’t happen when their ‘emotional reserves’ are run dry or whateverthefuck, it happens when they give up on the democratic party for making actual substantive changes. You think anyone gives a fuck about infrastructure spending when billionaires are running rampant, buying public platforms to manipulate public attention and building toy rockets so they can make-pretend that their astronauts? Fuck no. The fact that they instead spend their media time scaremongering about social issues is secondary to the fact that they’re doing that while the country becomes a playground for the egos of oligarchs. Yes, trans rights are under attack and we should protect them, but that’s not a substitute for addressing the systemic changes that are making everyone miserable.
We see that what the left is doing is ineffectual. We see that what the right is doing is vile. We act on it - actually take action, not protest - in the ways we can, in our own lives.
Lmao is this a parody? Take action in your own life… How? by mowing your fucking lawn? Imagine if the civil rights movement didn’t bother protesting and instead dedicated their time toward… what, emigrating out of their homes in the south? Boycotting the segregated cafes they weren’t allowed into? “Protesting is lame” says the centrist that definitely isn’t over-privileged prick
But it’ll be beyond that - it’ll be hell for you who have ridiculed others instead of growing
Grow into what?? What even is the centrist vision for the democrats? More child tax credits and free vaccination programs? That’s your big vision to defeat fascism? GTFO lmao
When there is an immediate crisis coming up, wherein messaging is extremely important, and you choose to amplify messages that help fascists without bothering to amplify messages that damage fascists, it’s difficult to see that as anything except service to fascism.
“If you’re not with us, you’re against us”
Democrats wanted everyone to shut up about how much was wrong that needed fixing so that they could win, and leftists wanted democrats to acknowledge how much was wrong that needed fixing so that they could win.
Throwing the leftists in with the right-wingers assumes that the rest of the country wasn’t already feeling the pain the democrats were trying to suppress.
Those who present of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable.
Lmao, here’s what this reads like:
A person who complicates a binary political choice at politically inexpedient moment by pointing out a flaw present in both binaries
No wonder American politics has regressed into pure symbols and signs.
“If you’re not with us, you’re against us”
That is literally what a FPTP election results in, yes. I see this is still taking time to sink in.
I run into this on dating apps. “Centrist” and “apolitical” are both code for “conservative.”
“I believe women have the right. The right to be a trad wife.”
Right probably think apoliticals are secret leftist too no?
I don’t know many leftists who keep that secret. “Apolitical” is typically indicative that someone is more or less fine with the status quo, which is an inherently conservative position.
I’ve heard that many men do this because they’ve realized, in some capacity, that outright admitting they’re right-wing limits their opportunities. In my circles, I’ve noticed this “I’m actually a centrist/apolitical” trend is also found among popular developers and tech influencers.
Saying you’re anti-woke gets you shunned and surrounded by horrible people, but saying you’re just apolitical gets you the blessing and protection of self-proclaimed centrists. When you, for example, marginalize LGBT folks and get called out, countless will gather to complain about people “dragging politics into tech.” Bryan Lunduke will come out of his cave and write a piece about how the trans fetish is trying to kill open source.
I’m talking about women, but I e heard the same things you have about men.
It’s not really a gendered thing to publicly distance yourself from personally held beliefs if those beliefs are unpopular.
