- cross-posted to:
- lemmydirectory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- lemmydirectory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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So what?
One bullet 2 inches to the right could have stopped them from ever starting.
On the contrary, I think the protest would escalate
And republicans think trump is loved by the world.
Sadly enough people like him to elect Trump wannabes. Argentina, the Netherlands, Germany, Hungary, Portugal, Britain (look at the latest county elections).
not the sane ones.
So republicans think trump is loved by the world.
democrats need to stop pretending there are sane republicans.
I suppose the number is diminishing.
The number is 0.
No, they know, but they’re trapped by blackmail or greed.
To…vote for him? Color me skeptical.
They have to keep pretending, so they remain in power. Political kayfabe.
TIL kayfabe. Thanks!
Kayfabe is a shorthand term that involves acknowledging the staged, scripted nature of professional wrestling, as opposed to a competitive sport, despite being presented as authentic.
Right wingers chronically overestimate their own popularity.
i mean, consider the following:
when i was a kid, the general societal narrative was that you’re a man, you gotta be strong, you gotta not be so sensitive, certain things just have to get done, man up.
If you’re exposed to that mentality 100% of the time, and you absorb it and live exactly by these rules, then certainly you would expect to be well-liked, having fulfilled all the rules and all, no? That is why people having that kind of toxic behavior always think they’re well-liked: because they follow all the advise they were given when they grew up. so certainly, things must be alright for them, no?
I think it’s because the media always portrays right wing ideologies as more popular than they are personally.
Yes, there you go! Good job, USA!
I like how all the big media just happened to publish articles about “peaceful protests” to pacify the protestors, “please don’t be violent everyone, the police can’t shoot you all in the leg with rubber bullets”.
The violent protests are the successful ones. Just ask every country, ever.
Was this the one I’ve been hearing was cancelled?
Can I get this side by side with trump’s inaugurations please
This is incredible.
“small protest, one of the smallest. My speeches are bigger, much biggly”
-turnip
Welll… It’s honestly not that big. The entire turnout across the States was not that big. The two anti Brexit protests in London had about 1.5 million participants and Britain has a much smaller population. Most Americans don’t seem to care.
There’s a little bit of a difference in the police response to protests between the two
It’s the biggest protest I’ve seen in America in my lifetime. Glad to be a part of it.
London population: 8.8 million
Twin cities combined population: 3.6 million
London public transport: pretty damn good, connections everywhere, not an insane price
Twin cities public transport: almost non-existant, insane parking prices
London police: sometimes reasonable and lightly armed
Twin cities police: notoriously corrupt, heavily armed, use constant excessive force on civilians
Mystery solved.
The count’s are coming in but I’m seeing more than 11million people protested throughout the usa.
Do you think the photo you’re seeing is the entirity of this protest? I think you don’t actually grasp the size of the US.
This is a small turnout, relatively speaking (this one was “cancelled” so I imagine it would have even had more). I went to one in a pretty centrist-right leaning town (Much much smaller than Minneapolis… Like hundreds of times smaller), and our turnout was about the same as this photo.
Go look at the turnout for Philadelphia.
I haven’t seen any nationwide estimates yet, but I can pretty much guarantee that it was at least more than 1 million people. at least
Assuming you actually give a shit and aren’t just here to sow division.
Edit: I’m now seeing figures of around 4-6 million people total, with some places estimating as many as 12 million.
It would be more incredible if those people were armed and swarming the studios of radical fascist media and beating the hell out of pro-trump talking heads.
Standing around waving signs and cheerleading shitty chants does nothing and will be forgotten in a week.
All this pro-violence rhetoric seems to be confusing correlation for causation.
Okay then you tell me in what scenario a corrupt fascist country of blithering idiots will suddenly decide “oh wow perhaps we should be voting for positive change for all and embrace others in an spirit of patriotic and brotherly love!”? The country has been screaming “GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS!” for a hundred years or more and continually voted to allow more money in politics, and then spent even more money and passed laws to allow more money in politics and set up an entire media universe to tell everyone that only those with excessive amounts of money are good people and are the only ones who should lead government.
How is YOUR way working out?
Don’t do violence.
Think of different ways of non-violence and do them.
History has overwhelmingly shown that non-violence is more successful than violence. You do you.
I don’t think that’s true. There were violent riots accompanying every major social change in at least recent history.
And famously, it took an entire fucking war to end slavery in the United States.
Often it’s the shadow of violence that is most effective. A peaceful protest, that is safe enough for families etc is perfect for snowballing. Focused action and the threat of counter violence keeps the government in check.
Too violent, and the support collapsed, letting the police simply overwhelm it. Too passive, and the whole thing can be ignored.
The Irish troubles are a good example. Protests and marches showed popular support. While the Sinn Fein party provided a political face. The IRA then made sure that proper attention was paid. All 3 were required to achieve their goals.
Now we are debt slaves instead. Success.
I’m wary to use terms like debt slavery or wage slavery because it downplays the horrors of actual slavery.
Yeah there are certainly logistical comparisons that could be made, but like c’mon… actually being completely and legally owned would suck so so so so much worse. Just another reminder of what’s at stake if we don’t put up a fight.
it took an entire fucking war to end slavery in the United States.
Well… how’s that going?
The lesson is to not take your boot off of the vanquished evil.
Well I mean, slavery is still illegal. Black people are able to vote, hold office, own property, etc.
There’s still a lot of social injustice to solve but there’s been a lot of progress, albeit slow.
A hell of a lot better than before that’s for sure.
good point.
if you confused about slavery legality in the united states, slavery is illegal.
hope this helps you.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2020/10/how-private-prisons-profit-from-forced-labor
It’s still kinda legal, just takes some extra steps and signatures, and a bribed judge - of which there are many.
That’s also setting aside people that are effectively slaves to low wages, unable to do anything but work with no chance for upward mobility.
The more I learn about history, the more I learn that violence changed things 99% of the time since before the Roman Empire.
Into the exact same regime with a new color of paint?
Can you give one example where non-violence caused actual long standing change with 0 violence?
How about several?
Youre really going to post the most controversial study there is because they cherry picked data?
Please give me one actual example of where the people toppled the government and enacted change… through non-violent protesting.
Moving the goal posts yeah yeah yeah. Give me an article or proof then of 1 single thing that caused real, permanent change, like I originally asked. Not some mass “several” article.
Norway leaving the union with Sweden in 1905 is famously one of the very few times secession was done non-violently. But to be fair there was large political pressure from Swedish socal democrats that urged the king not to go to war and the Sweds and Norwegians liked each other and remained good friends and allies afterwards.
Maybe if both parties start to work on the relationship and get friendly right away, then you could maybe have a peaceful resolution in 50 to 100 years time.
Also after
And during
Oh by saying “since before” I meant to imply “until today” hahaha
Ah makes sense haha
Honestly “and forever” >w<
What specifically are you talking about?
Violence is far more successful, historically speaking.
it may be more successful short-term, like a king getting into power because of a coup. but if the king isn’t well liked, he has a difficult life. peaceful progress, on the other hand, brings lasting progress.
It also tends to beget more violence.
Absolutely not. History has shown that violence works. The Sufragettes protested peacefully for 40 years with no result whatsoever. They won because they became violent. The French revolution was a success because they resorted to violence. The American revolution was a success because they resorted to violence. Peaceful demonstrations don’t work, sorry guys.
The French revolution is a perfect example of what is wrong with violent revolution. Power vacuums attract the kind of people that will do anything for power. Not to mention the chaos and confusion that came with the actual process of revolution.
The French revolution was a success because they resorted to violence.
Are you sure it was a success? How come it seems like people immediately stopped studying French history before Napoleon comes in and tears it all down?
Edit: Oh look its you. I see you.
No it hasnt. Power doesnt abdicate itself because you begged
Protest aren’t begging. They are a demonstration of capacity for action.
My city has had good turnout for a few protests in the last few months, but yesterday was the first time we took to the streets and caused a few traffic jams. I know it isn’t much, but it is an escalation. It was like scratching an itch, and I’m ready for whatever’s next.
This is correct.
Why isnt anyone swarming the private, for-profit detention centers? People like talking about guillotines but not the Bastille
Go ahead
The “you first!” defense just says you know that revolutions are gross and icky and you want someone else to do it instead of joining as A GROUP and doing what has to be done. Lone wolves are doomed to failure so the Status Quo appreciates your solidarity with them.
I just meant that if you think that protesting there is important then you should organize something. I’m fine with what we’re already doing.
that’s not how democratic changes are done.
progress happens because people demand that society walks in a sane direction. taking things into your own hands basically never does anything good.
Peacefully protesting Democrats serve capitalism and capitalism only.
We dont have democracy in the US. The electoral system is specifically set up to not allow it in any way. The masses can vote only so long is they have predetermined choices and outcomes.
Because if they go after any corporate entity directly, there will be guns, and death, and the survivors will be arrested for trespassing and vandalism and a slew of other crimes.
They want to be loud and safe, not effective for a cost.
Love to see it
I heard that the protests in MN were cancelled, which seems like a cut and dry tactical misstep from protest organizers to me, but I haven’t been able to find a lot of details.
This doesn’t look cancelled.
Anyone on the ground know more details?
According to various news reports, the suspect’s car had a manifesto, a hit list of people to target (one report said the list had a bunch of politicians, another said the list had a bunch of pro-choice activists), and apparently the car also had a bunch of No Kings signs in it. I’m guessing they thought he was going to slip into a protest and try to hurt people?
Something important to know about the two people who were shot: until her death, Melissa Hortman was a member of the Minnesota State House of Representatives; and John Hoffman is a member of the Minnesota State Senate. Both were Democrats.
And up until they were shot, the Minnesota House had 134 Members: 66 Republicans vs 67 Democrats (with one seat empty to be filled later). And the Minnesota Senate had 67 members: 33 Republicans and 34 Democrats. If the assassinations had both been successful, both chambers would have been tied. As it is, they’re only saying that Hoffman is “stable”, but there are no further details.
I’d heard it was over flyers in a car but I was hoping there was more to it than that. That’s a pretty flimsy threat to be capitulating to when we’re fighting murderous fascists, and sets a bad precedent.
I was not aware of how thin dem majorities were. That’s very important context, thank you.
I was there. The organizers were sending updates to anyone who RSVPed. I don’t like the idea of RSVPing for something like this, but I did. They announced before the event that they had cancelled any elected officials who were planning to speak. They also said something like, “If you are told that the event is cancelled, that is just a rumor.”
Several officials did speak and they were pretty epic, honestly. I don’t know if they announced the cancellation as a red herring and had everyone speak as planned, or if the speakers I saw were the late replacements. IMO this was a much bigger crowd than the first Hands Off protest.
Interesting. I’m in small town VA, and moved house today, and am pretty keenly feeling frustration that I couldn’t show up today. Searching for local actions, I landed on the base nokings.org page at some point, where there was a bright red banner saying that MN events that weren’t already started were canceled at Tim Walz’ recommendation, because the assassin was still at large. I can’t say what time I saw that, I looked for news several times today
They announced before the event that they had cancelled any elected officials who were planning to speak. They also said something like, “If you are told that the event is cancelled, that is just a rumor.”
Ah, thank you! That makes a lot more sense to me now.
I know a bunch of people who went in st. Paul, and in Duluth there was definitely people out with signs. Can’t cancel freedom yo!
I was gonna go but heard they were cancelled too because of the shootings this morning
We all knew about the stay home advisory. A lot of folk were only more determined to gather, and there was a general understanding that if there was an attack, it would throw gasoline on the movement as a whole. Crowd energy is weird.
Plus I spent three hours making my sign.
That looks like a bigger crowd than trump’s birthday war parade.
Definitley bigger - the aerial shots from his DC event showed more empty space than people, and this MN turnout is impressive considering it was technicaly “cancelled” lol.
Might be a bigger crowd than Trump’s inauguration too
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Um, yeah, that channel is propaganda…
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This is the picture I’ve been scrolling for. Thank you.
No one showed up to the cheeseburger kings birthday party.
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You mean Trump? I think that was last year and sadly he missed.
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