The company behind Trump Watches prominently features an iconic image of the presidential candidate on its timepieces. There’s one big problem: It’s not allowed to.
…
According to the Associated Press, though, TheBestWatchesonEarth LLC advertised a product it can’t deliver, as that image is owned by the 178-year-old news agency. This week, the AP told WIRED it is pursuing a cease and desist against the LLC, which is registered in Sheridan, Wyoming. (The company did not reply to a request for comment about the cease and desist letter.)
Evan Vucci, the AP’s Pulitzer Prize–winning chief photographer, took that photograph, and while he told WIRED he does not own the rights to that image, the AP confirmed earlier this month in an email to WIRED that it is filing the written notice. “AP is proud of Evan Vucci’s photo and recognizes its impact,” wrote AP spokesperson Nicole Meir. “We reserve our rights to this powerful image, as we do with all AP journalism, and continue to license it for editorial use only.”
ITT: people that have been stealing or paying for creative work through selling their data for so long they forgot (or never knew) laws about this exist and/or how they work.
Considering how many people think they’re just one boring stream of them playing a video game away from making it big as a “content creator,” it’s petty shocking.
200m is how far you can walk before the watch falls apart.
The font/script they chose makes it look like it reads “anus dumper” in cursive.
Do you mean Trump’s signature?
As usual, this probably won’t amount to even so much as a slap on the gold-plated wrist for him
Well, that’s kind of what a cease and desist is. It says, in a formal but mostly polite way, “stop doing that or we’ll become less nice”.
The watch website says the final version may not look like the pictures. Also they don’t have a production or delivery timeline and no promises of delivery.
And why the fuck should it result in more? This is petty bullshit that doesn’t matter.
You’re a Trump supporter. Your position makes sense in that context.
I don’t agree with them, but you can’t just call someone a nazi without evidence.
Add it on the pile hoss, there’s a lot of shit to shovel
Trumpers razor, the correct solution is most often crime
I mean I’ll lead by saying “fuck Trump” however I would be a little annoyed if I wanted to use a depiction of myself and someone came to yell at me about it.
Regardless of how I feel about Trump, I’m not even convinced that the plaintiff has a real case. From what limited knowledge I have about copyright law, the image might not violate it based on how much of it has been altered. The watches’ images aren’t even in color. There’s also been selective cropping, and some shading has been added in. I think it might be different if they include the original image in the marketing material but I’d consult an I.P. attorney if I were a defendant in such a case.
That’s not transformative by a long shot. It adds no new meaning and is for commercial purposes which has a higher bar in the first place.
Isn’t this the same as that Obama red and blue pic?
Which was settled out of court with a sharing of rights to the AP. And that image was more transformative than this. Cropping the subject of a photograph and engraving it on the back of a watch just conveys the subject matter of the photograph. It’s a loser in court.
being an impression or an engraving of photograph is pretty transformative. This claim is a loser in court.
Changing medium is not transformative if you’re explicitly copying the subject matter of the original.
Edit: one thing that is funny is that there’s a note in the picture of the article that they can’t use a photo of the back of the watch for some watch review site because they don’t have the rights from the AP. In that case, however, they’re wrong because a picture of the back of the watch to make a point that the watch is similar to the original photograph is, hilariously, transformative. It, in conjunction with the article, has a completely different meaning than the original image and is fair use. If you used the image just to talk about the event or about Trump though, that would not be fair use because you’re just using the image’s composition in its entirety.
I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with you on that. There are far too many example of just that in everyday life.
Unless you are a judge on the case your disagreement doesn’t matter.
And the only examples that matter is case law.
Well I agree with you on that but unless you have verifiable credentials as an authority on the subject then your judgement and seeming disagreement on the subject also doesn’t matter. To go around cavalierly making unverfiable claims (like I’m also responding to) about the judgements over intellectual property law does nothing good for anyone, but leaves many susceptible (including yourself) to Dunning–Kruger and confirmation bias.
So if I produce a movie based on a book without a license, I would be ok in your mind right?
This would be like producing an engraving based on a altered photograph, and as I said earlier, it would be worth consulting with an IP attorney.
Actually no, when you go to a professional photographer to have your picture taken, you pay for it. Because they put in the work and need to be compensated for it. By that logic people would never have to pay photographers for portraits, weddings, none of that. Just because you’re in a picture doesn’t mean you don’t owe a debt to the person who took it.
Yeah, but if I then want to put that picture of me on my social media page or a website or the back of a cheaply-manufactured wristwatch or what have you, why is the photographer allowed to tell me no?
Well if you want an argument based on ‘first principles’, because the photographer actually put work into producing this picture, let alone their knowledge, likely expensive equipment, and hard earned skill to take a truly great shot, whereas you did nothing for it. Unless you are a professional model, but then you probably got compensated for your work as part of a deal.
Now the uses you describe are very different. Some are more casual and non-commercial in nature. Courts will consider such factors in a copyright infringement case.
Now does the above mean you have absolutely no say in what happens to a picture of you taken by someone else? Not exactly, you can also prevent third parties from using the likeness of you for purposes that might be damaging to your dignity or reputation, again, in some jurisdictions, I do not know the details. I am not a lawyer and it was a long time ago I studied these subjects. But basically my point is that the fact that it’s you in the picture may matter to an extent, depending on laws protecting personhood in your country, but not in the way you assumed where every photo of you is yours for the taking.
Because you don’t own the image. You are not images of yourself. Are you one of those people that thinks cameras steal a part of your soul or something? This isn’t difficult to understand.
Considering it’s me in the picture, and thus my reputation on the line if it gets misused, I think I should have some say.
Thanks for strawmanning me though.
Well. You don’t.
Well, that’s stupid.
Yeah try getting copies of a copyrighted portrait made. Wedding photos, school portraits, you name it. Not yours.
Well yes and no.
A famus artist may sell a picture of theirs to a company, them RHAT company has the copyright, not you.
Lots of artists don’t own their music, don’t own their likeness either.
This would decimate the photography industry.
Agreed. Hate to be that person but I definitely agree with you. It’s literally a picture of himself. I detest the man but this is dumb to be fair.
I do some professional photography. If I take a picture, I own it unless there’s a written agreement that says otherwise. You can’t claim ownership rights of a photo just because you’re in it - especially a photo taken in a public space.
Unless you take a picture of an… copyrighted landmark…
That’s how you exit the matrix
Sure. But it’s my understanding also that a picture in a public place of me would be fair game. But if someone were to monetize it or use it to promote a product I thought this needs permission. Otherwise why do I usually sign a release when the photo of me is going to be used for advertisements by my workplace for example. The people that asked this of me were professional photographers as well and we were in a public space. I guess I just wonder what release forms and things are for
They have you sign the release so you won’t annoy them with a frivolous lawsuit which will still cost them money to use a lawyer to fight it.
They don’t have to do it.
It’s really not dumb. If copyright law worked that way, no photographer who included human subjects would be able to make a living. Artists deserve to be able to sustain themselves from their labor.
no photographer who included human subjects would be able to make a living.
Sounds great to me! But then, I’m a deranged lunatic from the Taliban
Welcome to copyright law
Meh. The courts are set up to prevent laws from ever applying to Trump anyway. What’s copyright law on the bonfire?
So, what about the political ad signs it’s being used on? Is that legal? I saw them all over the place.
Copyright protects commercial use so:
probably?I went and read a little and: Nope, gotta fall under fair use and selling a campaign sign with a copyrighted image wouldn’t cut it.
Throw it on the pile.
It looks like it’s a re-drawn image and not an actual “copy” of the image, so wouldn’t that mean they can’t do fuck all about it? Obviously it was made to look like the image, but does that actually count for anything? I wouldn’t think it would.
It’s definitely a representation of the original but much like how you can just reverse a video to avoid copyright this isn’t an exact copy of the original.
Edit: I realize now that I was wrong about the reversed video. I do however think this is a weak case legally since it’s not an exact copy but I obviously don’t know what I’m talking about. Lol
You can’t simply reverse a video to avoid copyright. What gave you that idea?
People do it all the time on YouTube?
Surely you’re joking? People do it on YouTube to avoid automated detection. You would be laughed out of court for trying to assert copyright over a reversed video as a derivative work.
…automated detection is not law. It’s illegal, and if reported, will be pulled. If money is made from monetization, the channel can also be sued. Getting away with breaking a rule doesn’t magically mean you then automatically also get away with breaking a law. Reversing a video is considered “minor modification” that does not transform the original sufficiently to make it a new work.
It’s staggering to me how many people in this thread are completely ignorant of copyright law. I guess that’s a reflection of the times though.
Lol. That’s just to avoid the auto detection bots so it doesn’t get easily noticed for copyright infringement. People reverse the videos so they don’t get caught so quickly. Not because it makes them legal.
How so? By creating a derivative image of the one depicted next to the watch?
I hate trump but I hate copyright law way more.
Ugh… Go trump … pukes
EDit: so many people are malding lmao. Even got boneheaded DMS ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ
Do you also hate the wishes of the artist who sold it to the news agency to earn a living and keep the image under editorial use as opposed to being commercialized and sold to benefit the Trump campaign? Whether you agree with how it’s being used or not, that’s what the photographer decided was best for their work.
Good thing the watch doesn’t contain that photographer’s work then
Yes… it does. People are wildly ignorant about copyright law, wow.
Copyright laws are bullshit in that their terms are way too long and are often too easily abused against people who are using copywritten materials under fair use. However copyright as a concept is not bullshit. Creative works, including photography, should absolutely be protected from unauthorized use for the benefit of the creator.
Also, there is nothing redeemable about Trump. Even if you feel that copyright law is somehow fundamentally wrong, the correct position can actually be “fuck all parties involved” instead of supporting Trump hawking his swag to pay for his campaign of fascism.
I really wish copyright was still how it was in the U.S. for more than the first half of the 20th century: 19 years with an option to renew for another 19 years. That, IMO, is long enough for any entity to be the sole earner from a work.
However copyright as a concept is not bullshit. Creative works, including photography, should absolutely be protected from unauthorized use for the benefit of the creator.
Sure, creative works should be protected. But not all works are creative enough to be protected. I disagree a photograph like this should have any protection. If the photographer put in their creativity or something else to create it then sure. Then it should be protected. This photo was taken on public event of people and stuff out of the photographers influence and IMO shouldn’t be protected
The creativity is in how the photo was shot; the camera settings, framing, when the photographer chose to take the photo, etc. To say that anyone could have taken this exact photo is both incorrect and doesn’t matter. Anyone could have written any book, play, or script but they didn’t. Anyone could have painted pretty much any particular painting, but they didn’t. I don’t disagree that many aspects of US copyright law are ridiculous, but to say there’s no artistic vision in taking a photograph like this is ignorant.
I agree. It would be like a composer who couldn’t play an instrument writing a symphony. Just because he doesn’t have the capability to produce the final outcome doesn’t mean his vision for how the various pieces fit together isn’t an artistry in itself.
That is a very powerful image, moreso than many of the other images I’ve seen of that event. It certainly isn’t because of the people in it, but the timing to capture that gesture and the overall framing add something that is lacking in other pictures I’ve seen. No doubt that is the reason they selected it. Now they will have to use a lesser option.
I think the other comment covered it but I believe this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes photography such an amazing artform. People study and practice, for a long time, to take photos like this. This isn’t a cell phone pointed in the general direction of a subject with conveniently optimal lighting for its tiny lens, though that could produce a good picture, this takes a great deal more experience, preparation, and creativity to frame and capture the subject in a certain way with extraordinary timing to get a dynamic, emotion-filled result.
Your priorities are fucked if you are able to even type those two words next to each other.
Your priorities are fucked if you are able to even type those two words [“Go” and “Trump”] next to each other.
“Go Trump yourself”
“Go Trump to hell”
“Go Trump off a bridge”
Yeah I guess I am.
I also support Ukraine so that makes me Nazi. And Palestine too so i am antisemite…
Edit; I also like killing unborn babies
I am very fucked up ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ
Supporting Trump in any way makes someone more of a Nazi than supporting Ukraine ever would.
No. Just the Trump thing. Conflating that with anything else you said is a very weird bit of normalization for the former.
I disagree with you, but wanted to be unlike the other comments. I, too, hate copyright, but in this case I’d say Trump deserves to lose, just cause he’s a cunt, and winning this will do basically nothing for anyone except him.
You’re letting your hatred corrupt your integrity. How is that no obvious to you here?
it’s