I’ve always been curious how fascism takes hold, and how people like Hitler, Stalin. etc rise to power. Do people not see what is happening? Shouldn’t hindsight, foresight and common sense kick in at some point? I used t think they were like mob bosses early on - anyone disagreeing with them ends up in a barrel, but surely were civilized and educated by now?
It seems the people don’t want to jeopardize their comfortable livelihoods and individual lives so expect the ‘powerful elected officials’ to do their bidding. After all, the public gave them the power to do just that. Otoh, the politicians don’t want to jeopardize their cushy jobs and accumulated power by challenging the majority, so are waiting for the public to start a jan6 situation so they can point and say, ‘see, the people are unhappy so we should act’.
It’s a shitstorm of no consequences and a man child hacking away at the country and no one seems to be doing anything meaningful. I’m literally watching fascism take place.
History/ psychology/ sociology majors care to chime in?
There’s an essay titled “Ur-Fascism” by Eco Umberto. It’s available online for free, you can Google it. It might give you some good insight on the subject. It’s mandatory reading, imo.
Big upvote for Umberto Eco. edit: may as well add some links.
ur-fascism & wikipedia
ecos website & to wikipedia page
I recently finished reading The Cult of Trump by Steven Hassan. It’s from 2019 and so depressing with how much has happened since then that’s not accounted for, but it was interesting insight into how people like that can accumulate a following. It might help answer your question.
Cool. Will look around for it. Thanks
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Not the whole answer, but alcohol and other drugs played a large part in the nazi regime (1).
My guess is that authoritarianism, just like drug use, is a response to depression. When you don’t (want to) realise the hurt is coming from within, instead you think the world is out to hurt you, then you want more and more control.
Now the drugs have been replaced by internet echo chambers? So you get the validation you want by people of the same opinion? Sounds dangerous.
The irony is just astounding.
Some lemmy instances come to mind
“Somel” lol
Look up Time Ghost’s ‘The Rise of Hitler’ series on YouTube. They’ve also done a shorter one about Mussolini.
There are two things you’ll want to read to get an idea of how and why fascism happens. The first is the essay Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. The second is the free ebook The Authoritarians by Dr Bob Altemeyer.
Between these two, you get a clear, measurable definition of what it means to be fascist and an explanation of the psychologies behind it.
Populism
Try reading Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti. Early on, it explains how fascism comes to power, who supports it and what can done to resist it.
The support base of fascism is the petit bourgeoisie usually.
It’s simple. Put greedy people in positions of power.
That’s communism. And capitalism. And every other government system.
Congratulations, you understood the assignment.
So all types of government lead to fascism?
No, humanity leads to fascism without the correct controls in place. It’s an unfortunate side effect of our “survival of the fittest” driving our evolution as a species. Since greed usually wins out, it was selected for in our species, and the only thing stopping it is our civility, which is rather new to our species as a whole.
And there’s no government type that has the correct controls in place?
No. There do not exist controls that will not be bypassed through human ingenuity.
So what’s the timeframe on turning to fascism? Looking at well over a few hundred years at least at this point.
there are many ways it can happen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a5JgD8AhRjs
watch that and you’ll have a better idea to the answer you’re asking.
Bigotry, that’s how. People have problems, the economy is struggling. They need a scapegoat. So someone like Hitler or Trump convince them that all their problems are caused by jews or immigrants or LGBT people or some other minority group and that everything will be fixed by getting rid of that group
Why is the economy struggling while rich people live in luxury?
I’d say what’s causing people grief is a bigger trigger for fascism than how they react to it.
Or that all their problems are caused by and will be fixed by getting rid of all of the people who disagree with their ideologies and political allegiance. They call for censorship of those people, they try to get them de-platformed/fired and arrested for wrong-think, outlaw their ability to get any power, and they try to paint them as all sorts of horrible things and say that if you disagree then you’re also those horrible things.
Radicalisation, basically, and if you think it’s only one side doing it, you’re well on your way.
I agree.
Well you’re in luck because all you have to do is look around because facism is taking hold as we speak
Its weird because we basically all agree its bad but its happening anyway. I keep feeling like someone should do something, but then like I’m someone and cant really do anything.
Are we all just waiting for someone to do something about it?
This. It’s such a helpless, defeating feeling. If I looked out my window, and saw people rioting in the streets and fighting the police/ military, I’d immediately be engaging (and most likely immediately getting neutralized), if I had a company of like-minded individuals behind me I’d say let’s determine a target. But all of us, you, me, everyone, have the same mindset: If we try, we will win, but if I try, I will die.
An echo chamber all agreeing that something is happening doesn’t mean it actually is. What “fascism” are you talking about that is actually happening?
Tell me, which side is trying to roll back freedom of speech? Which side wanted to round up the unvaccinated into camps? Which side said the unvaccinated should lose their jobs, be denied medical care, have their kids taken from them, and left for dead? Which camp routinely calls for violence and death towards the people that they disagree with?
Any political extremism is propagated by providing easy answers to complex problems.
Yes, but along the way, we’d expect there to be questions and common civility perhaps being a guide. It’s not happening, so I’m wondering why the masses and leaders sit and do nothing while it unfolds.
My impression is that 1/3 of the population is always ready to accept tyranny. On that topic, I have a couple of other suggestions that are easier reads than Arendt, and specifically about the usa:
- Who Goes Nazi (a short, almost fun essay)
- Huey Long is sometimes considered America’s fascist governor.
Read through the parts of 1. that I was allowed to by the paywall. Fascinated at how different the characters are (reached F and a half). Will try to find the rest. Thanks!
1/3 kinda sounds about right. Some are finding the system isn’t working for them, and want a change, no matter how drastic. The other group wants to control the system for their needs.
People get frustrated by circumstances they don’t necessarily understand. Fascists give them easy targets based on lies that feed the people’s prejudice to place their blame, and introduce more and more oppressive social restrictions based on those easy targets while riling up public fears and so on.
That is how lies about immigrant and minority crime have primed the US populace to be ok with the military occupying the nation’s capital based on blatant lies about crime rates.
I’ve noted that. Tighten wages, blame the immigrants. Turn sentiment against them, gradually dehumanize them, then use force to ship them out. Apply to group of choice - foreign or domestic. ‘Protecting rights’ is just a rallying cry and a tool for the politicians.
The people crying for illegal immigrants to be allowed to stay are the ones who want wages to stay low, ironically. Illegals are used as dirt cheap labor because of their illegal status, and deporting them and only hiring legal citizens would drastically increase the average wage.
more and more oppressive social restrictions
Enforcing long standing immigration laws don’t count as that lol. You know what does? Introducing things like “vaccine passports”, mandating vaccines to keep your job, contact tracing, digital IDs, trying to get rid of free speech, etc. Do any of those sound familiar?
Also your comment about the lies about DCs crime rate is hilarious given the allegations and investigations into doctoring of the crime statistics to make it look safer than it is. The police officers union are the ones making the allegations btw, so it’s hard to argue against them when they’re the ones who are being ordered by higher ups to report lower offences than what actually occurred.
I’ve always been curious how fascism takes hold, and how people like Hitler, Stalin. etc rise to power
Mate…
No really. I’m aware of what’s going on right now in the us. Did no one back then see what was happening then either?
What have you read?
Dunno. Trying to make sense of ‘mate…’
If you can’t distinguish the two sides of World War Two, it’s hard to know where to start. Maybe read an encyclopædia entry.
I wondered how long it would take for a .ml to turn up and contribute absolutely nothing.
Dude, you are dealing with a liberal, not a moron. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you’re right if you sound like an asshole. We all were taught in school that Stalin was evil and bad just like Hitler therefore communism = fascism, and some of us were taught in school that Hitler was a socialist.
1 - get off your high horse
2 - they asked a double question about how did Stalin and Hitler rise to power and how does fascism take hold in a society, they didn’t equate Stalinism with fascism.
a liberal, not a moron
Same thing an increasingly large percentage of the time.
