FRANKFURT, Aug 25 (Reuters) - The suspect in custody for a stabbing rampage in the western German city of Solingen that killed three people and injured eight is a 26-year-old Syrian man, authorities said early on Sunday.
I really hope we don’t get riots like in the UK now. I am sure we will see a lot of incitement from the extreme far right and i am worried that the populist right will flank the incitement rather than distance from it.
Attacks like this fit their narrative perfectly. They don’t even need to incite.
If people like you only worry about how this will play well for the extreme right, they have already won.
The problem here isn’t the far right. The problem is terrorist murder.
The far right is still the biggest problem we have. Needless to say this was a horrible incident and no one wants fucking Isis around, but far right terrorism is still a much bigger threat to our society.
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One helps the other if you hadn’t noticed.
And water makes you wet. Doesn’t change that the far right is our biggest threat, which is something you deny.
Our biggest threat by far is catastrophic climate change.
Hard agree but that’s completely irrelevant in this context.
Fair enough as opinions go. More interesting would be facts and figures. A good place to begin: annual number of fatalities caused by terrorism of each of those two variants.
The German internal secret service (BfV) counted 1148 violent right-wing offenses in 2023. There were 329 violent offenses with “foreign” ideological background (this includes islamism among many other things) in 2023. Source PDF
I should probably note that BfV is known for being a little blind to right-wing extremism too.
Previous BfV president Maaßen has in the meantime become the leader of his very own right-wing party. I do trust current BfV president Haldenwang a bit more than him but I don’t think he’s been able to unfuck the organization as a whole.
Thank you. And fatalities? We can all surely agree that this is an important metric.
It’s not listed. But I am almost certain there’s some proportionality here.
OK. I will stay humble in my assertions since I’m too lazy to research the matter myself. But I am almost certain that there is not proportionality. That the far-right terrorist acts tend to be much smaller in scale and creating few victims and far fewer fatalities. Arson, that sort of thing. And that this qualitative difference in the terrorism is therefore the cause of much misunderstanding and indeed bad feeling in this debate, as some feel that they see an obvious false equivalence. But I’m straying from confirmed facts and liable to get accused of terrible things so I will stop there.
Yeah here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/06/terrorism-far-right-white-supremacists-911-us
The guy from Norway, the guy in New Zealand, the guys in Germany were all nazi shooters mowing down immigrants. But politics and media call them lone wolfs or disoriented kids and it has nothing to do with their nazi manifestos vs if they’re Muslim it’s a problem of Islam as a whole.
I don’t blame anyone for actually believing that Islamism is real our biggest threat because media and politics make it seem that way.
But in fairness I believe those numbers vary year on year, and some years the figures are wildly different. After the Syrian influx for example.
I don’t blame anyone for actually believing that Islamism is real our biggest threat because media and politics make it seem that way.
Cards on the table. I believe, like most people do according to opinion polls, that it is a bigger threat. And obviously I can’t prove this but I am also more or less certain that I am at least as informed as you, from at least as many sources. For what it’s worth - and this is purely for context - I work in a media-adjacent field and have humanities degrees in different European languages.
So perhaps this is not a case of mass indoctrination, but rather simply of individuals having different values.
Did you read the article? It doesn’t talk about one specific year and covers also the period after “the Syrian influx”. Far right terrorism consistently beats Islamist terrorism both in terms of frequency and lethality.
Regarding your second point it would just help reading the article that I linked. You may believe that you’re informed but still your feeling goes against hard facts. You asked for statistics, we gave you statistics, you still refuse to change your mind so I don’t see any point continuing this conversation.
you still refuse to change your mind
And how about you? What would it take to change your mind? We both know that no article or data will make your change your own mind on this subject. You understand the essentials already, as do I. So let’s not insult each other’s intelligence.
It is common knowledge that during the year following the Syrian influx several hundred people were killed and over a thousand injured in a serious of spectacular terrorist attacks. For a couple of years the numbers put far-right violence thoroughly in the shade. Since then the figures have even out somewhat. But for individual attacks there continues to be discrepancy in lethality, in part because jihadism is motivated by morbid religious doctrine in a way that neonazism is not. I’m talking in generalities and I’m not going to waste my time trying to defend all this with numbers. You are obviously informed and you know it already.
This qualitative difference in the violence, along with Islam’s unusual religious supremacism, and its ultra-conservative cultural baggage, and the clear-as-day difficulties Europe is having in integrating people from this particular region - these are what worry so many of us in Europe. Again, you know all this already. I am not a cynic, I don’t think you really believe it’s all a matter of racism, which is the usual slur used to shut down debate. You simply feel differently about risk. Perhaps you are just more optimistic about human nature.
We’ve both said what we have to say about this subject. Have nice day.
The problem is fascism in any way. Islamist extremists are just as fascistic as right wing extremists.
I guess we all know what happened in this comment section!
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We get it dude, you’re a racist lmao.
Pathetic manchild.
Crickets.
It seems he has been already denied asylum last year, but escaped the authorities somehow.
Now some politicians are suggesting idiotic laws and spreading populist bullshit, like every time.
somehow
Refugees that get denied asylum after years are informed days to weeks ahead when exactly the authorities show up to bring them back to their origin country.
Doesn’t seem that smart
I’m sorry, what are you expecting?
Expecting? I was expecting exactly what we both see. No debate of substance is permitted on this subject. You know that already.
If comments like “all muslims are bad” are a good start to a “debate of substance” in your view, I don’t actually mind you not participating.
This straw man says more about you than any argument I have ever made here.
Huh? You were complaining about how evil mods were suppressing debate (paraphrasing obviously).
But the removed comment thread literally started with a blanket “muslims are bad” comment.
Difficult to know that. The offending comment is deleted.
But yes, given the number of deleted comments, the mods are almost certainly suppressing debate.
Whichever way you look at it, that is not a healthy situation in democracy.
Hi, I am the mods responsible.👋 And yeah, I am deleting comments if they are just inciting hate, are obviously racist, etc. Unfortunately, a topic such as this one attracts these kinds of opinions. And no, for the sake of everyone’s well-being, I am not just letting them stand.
You can look at the modlog if you want: https://p.feddit.org/modlog?community=5765
Whichever way you look at it, that is not a healthy situation in democracy.
Eh. What’s truly not healthy is absolute free speech. That just helps the most extreme voices thrive.
I would agree if the mods were to actually delete comments calling for e.g. stricter immigration laws or quicker deportations of rejected asylum seekers. This didn’t happen here and what was deleted wasn’t a contribution to discussion but generalising bs.
Feel free to contribute to the discussion with your own points of view. Those can be controversial without violating the community rules.
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Man, this shit just keeps happening.
Just what we need. /s
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So if it’s a German stabbing someone should we then focus on that? Or whatever you hate at the moment I guess (women, foreigners, gays, … ?)
What a shitty take.
If the german has a terrorist / right wing extremist background? Yes most certainly we should. And we do, all the time when a racist crime is committed.
How the fuck is that “a shitty take”? The only shitty take I see here is the assumption I’m a right winger because I think we should call an Islamist shoe a shoe.
You are attacking a complete straw man: The thread you’re responding started with a blanket all-muslims-are-bad comment. Then @rotkehle responded that that message seemed kinda Nazi.
You then came up with the idea that we’re all defending a knife murderer. We’re not.
Please stop at this point.
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Feel free to write to me privately. What you’re doing is just ban evasion.
(Although I’ll be honest … I am not going to discuss the idea that “hatespeech is wery normal and must not be suppressed”. Free speech has its limits, in my view anyway.)
You’re free to speak, moderators are free to van you.
If you can’t handle the consequences of the bullshit you’re spouting, that’s sad for you.
Hate speech and racism do not belong in this community.
The fact you’re circumventing a ban to protest just makes you a very disappointing individual.
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