The Soviet system used psychiatry as a weapon by diagnosing political opponents as mentally ill in order to confine them as patients instead of trying them in court. Anyone who challenged the state such as dissidents, writers, would-be emigrants, religious believers, or human rights activists could be branded with fabricated disorders like sluggish schizophrenia. This turned normal political disagreement into supposed medical pathology and allowed the state to present dissent as insanity.
Once labeled in this way, people were placed in psychiatric hospitals where they could be held for long periods without legal protections. Harsh treatments were often used to break their resolve. The collaboration between state security organs and compliant psychiatrists created a system where political imprisonment was disguised as medical care, letting the Soviet regime suppress opposition while pretending it was addressing illness rather than silencing critics.
Today it’s called ODD, “woke”, or “tankie” if an anarchist pisses off the wrong lib.
We all have ODD on this blessed day.
It’s fuckin insane that ODD is still in the DSM. That alone is enough for me to want to dismiss the entire text.
I think it’s more like if you’re so opposed to what any authority figure tells you to do that you will do the opposite of what your doctor tells you, for example, sometimes out of spite or vindication.
Yes but I think that perspective puts all the onus of change on the harmed individual and none on the institution that abused and broke their trust of authority, and therefore functions as a scapegoat for abuse of authority, or authority itself. “Healing” under this understanding involves getting a traumatized individual to trust their doctor, who’s authority likely chains back to the same powers who hold the reigns of their abuser, and to move on with their lives while that normalized abuser - The one creating the trauma in the first place - Continues to do untold harm. Someone labeled ODD is traumatized by authority yet the label exists not primarily to aid the victim, but to externalize blame away from the authority and onto the victim.
Furthermore I’ve at least read that more and more these days ODD “symptoms” are being reunderstood as expressions of various non-normative neurotypes that may place things like justice and ethical reciprocity at a higher priority than most. I myself have been introduced by my therapist to PDA type autism, Pathological/Persistent Demand Avoidance, which before it’s relatively recent recognition used to get a lot of people slapped with the ODD label. I don’t express my demand avoidance externally unless cornered, more it informs my entire lifestyle strategy in advance, so I escaped having a direct confrontation as a kid that would have gotten me labeled. But I identify strongly with and my heart goes out to ODD-labeled people.
Read what was linked, it’s literally only diagnosed in children. In which case, yes, if they disregard all authority (including their parents), it is a problem.
It’s a problem for a hierarchical society that requires continual compliance for next to no explanation, not a problem for the child. It’s not a medical condition internal to an individual, it’s a social illness external to them, and therefore has no place in a medical text.
That’s simply raising children. Yes, you should ideally explain as much as possible to children, but some things you simply can’t because they’re not mature enough to understand it, it could traumatize them or there’s simply no time.
I mean, imagine a child suddenly deciding to run into a busy road and you start explaining why they should stop instead of giving clear orders: “you know, those cars are moving very fast and…” * Splat *
And even if you to have the option to explain, if the child simply says “I don’t care” and ignores you, then how are you supposed to raise them? That’s specifically what this diagnosis is about.
I’m deeply concerned for the wellbeing of your children.
I’m deeply concerned for the wellbeing of a society that’s even peppered (let alone prolific) with this naive-realist rationalised irrationality.
“That’s simply” authoritarian totalitarianism, normalised.
And of course, the totalitarianised psyche does not see this. Like the fish does not see water. Does not even know its a thing. Knows no other way. “That’s simply” how it is to them.
A couple other things spring to mind:
“If you’re old enough to ask the question, you’re old enough to handle the answer.” (And even before (and if not, plant the seed and they may get it later).
and
Try explanation before dismissing it out of hand. Better pedagogy. Explanation’s not even a high bar. There are better yet. Invite exploring ideas.
I’m not even remotely taking about hitting kids, jfc. But way to completely miss the point that explanation and exploring ideas sometimes simply doesn’t work and create a strawman.
Just an example of not using reasoned explanations and instead conforming to “requires continual compliance for next to no explanation” that sprang to mind.
Since I was not saying you were saying what you’re saying I was saying, that’s your own (both) strawman fallacy fallacy, and its own strawman fallacy. As I said, it’s just what also sprang to mind in that same vein of thought. At a stretch, maybe you could try claim it a slippery slope fallacy on my part, but again, I was not saying that’s the inevitable result from your line of thought(/dogma). It’s just a possibility [due consideration] within that philosophy.
Also, while we’re on the case of detecting fallacies, you’ve moved the goalposts from “That**’s** simply raising children.” to “explanation and exploring ideas sometimes simply doesn’t work”.
Did you even read what I wrote literally one sentence later?
It’s raising children in a hierarchical society that requires continual compliance for next to no explanation. Again, it’s not a problem internal to the child, and it’s not medical, it’s wrong to frame it as a medical condition.
Busy roads that leave no nuance between safety and instant death, no safe introductory margin for a child to explore and understand, are a product of a hierarchical society. The only reason we require unwavering compliance from our children that bleeds into labeling them with medical conditions if they do not comply is because we have built a society that is hostile to them.
To balk and protest at that state of affairs is not a disorder, it’s entirely healthy. It’s the state of affairs that is ill.
I don’t think you’re understanding the problem here. Busy roads were one example, there are plenty of others, train tracks, the mixer or blender in the kitchen, a fork in a power outlet - these have absolutely nothing to do with hierarchy. There will always be dangers. And even if there aren’t any, if you don’t have a grip on children to prevent them from injuring other children or even adults, you have a serious problem on your hands. If you don’t correct that, you get the kind of adults that make our society ill as you put it.
And again, this is not about balking and protesting at the ill state of affairs, and the diagnosing factors make that very clear.
ODD is an excuse diagnosis. It’s literally “You rightfully criticise people for being authoritarian and us cops and fascists don’t like that, boohoo”.
It’s basically a perfect example for the sociological model of disability.
We need a diagnosis instead for people who are needlessly authoritarian and intolerant.
It’s called being a “fascist”.
(But seriously, is there no diagnosis for it?)
It fits in the authoritarian captalist system we’re living in. The system rewards this behaviour.
There’s no direct diagnosis as such, because being a fascist is more a description of the outward effect than what is happening inside the person, and other factors have a very strong influence as to if a person becomes a fascist leader or not (in other situations that person would “only” be abusive to the people around them, for instance). But there are diagnoses such as psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder, which are often present in these cases.
Side note: ODD is a diagnosis that is only people under 18, so it’s explicitly not a political thing.
Sounds explicitly political to me. Did you forget the “/s”?
Doesn’t stop behaviorists coming up with diagnoses.
Oh, but then, behaviorists are authoritarians, and so likely are not going to shoot a diagnosis for their own.
At this point I’m starting to wonder whether you’re trolling. You’re equating behaviorism with authoritarianism, which is… Holy shit. I think some reading would help.
Which is what?
Use your words.
Happy to entertain counter arguments or refutations.
Aloof ad-hominem, uncompelling.
Have you looked into ABA? Look into that, and then take a fresh look at CBT.
Happy to hear any example of a behaviorist school of thought that’s not authoritarian.
[PS, 100% not trolling.]
ITT: A lot of people who have no clue what ODD is.