I know places like Portugal and Spain are going through serious housing crunches right new and I know expats often exaggerate those problems. So where can an American flee oppression without just oppressing someone else?
For context: I’m a progressive lefty, thinking about long term relocation options cause the fash is getting pretty thick around here.
Edit: I know immigrants and expats (US or other) are not solely responsible overseas housing issues, but housing issues definitely exist across Portugal, Netherlands, etc. I don’t want to increase that burden and would feel shitty if my housing offer outbid 300 local applicants.
Moved to Germany. I feel very welcome here. Theres a very similar political problem growing in Germany, several large political parties that either want things to get only slightly better or a lot worse, and a growing fascist party that wants to enrich themselves by hurting other people. But it doesn’t feel close to the tipping point like the US is, so I still recommend it.
I always feel welcome, except for a drunk white German here and there yelling at me for not knowing the language (I’m working on it, but languages have always been hard for me).
There’s a housing crisis everywhere and immigrants are not the problem, it’s the fact that housing is a financial investment vehicle and the wealthy are only getting wealthier while most everyone else is getting poorer. You’re not oppressing people by moving to their country and paying taxes. You’re the villain if you dodge taxes, are a landlord (and aren’t fighting to tear down the current housing system), or have 5 million+ and aren’t fighting to help people and fix the system.
What mechanism did you use to get there. Just a work visa? Any path to eventual residency or citizenship?
I worked for a company in both countries - so I was fortunate enough to use the Blue Card visa. If you can make that work, that lets you work anywhere in the EU which is great for back up.
Path to permanent residency in Germany takes 3 years, low language skill, and a civic test. Will be doing that in 2026.
Citizenship takes 5 years and medium language skill. I’m a bit away from that.
Generally, I think the path to citizenship is fair but the easier they make it the better the country will be (to a point I guess).
Albania LOVES Americans. There’s a bunch of history that boils down to America helped make Albania and Kosovo exist. There are statues here of a bunch of former US presidents. Americans even get better visas than anyone else. It’s a 1 year automatic visa on arrival. If you don’t apply for a residency permit in that year, you have to leave for 90 days, then you can stay for another year.
Albania is still developing. Everything has a little more friction than in the US. Quick examples; no Amazon, no real freeways, no drive thrus. The bureaucracy is very much like “papers please”. There aren’t a lot of local jobs. The language is hard to learn fluently, but it’s possible to get by day to day with a few phrases and Google translate.
The people are amazing. The food is great. The entire country is beautiful. If you stay out of Tirana, rent is really affordable. Every time you meet someone, they’ll ask why you’re here because everyone wants to move to America.
Interesting. My grandpa was Albanian. Not that he ever talked about it, really. Or maybe I was too young at the time to listen.
Anyhow, I’m glad we weren’t dicks to his people. There aren’t many countries you can say that about.
The whole thing about Americans causing housing crunches is absolutely ridiculous. The total number of Americans in Spain is something like 68k, and many of them can be assumed to live together or with Spanish spouses who would need housing themselves, so the impact on housing is a rounding error.
Another thing to remember is that a lot of these Americans in Spain are children of Spanish citizens that were born in the US to avail of US citizenship, which is not uncommon in families with the means to do it.
You are not oppressing anyone if you move to a new country and make an effort to integrate, follow their laws, and leave the country cleaner and better than you found it, or don’t leave the country and begin to contribute to its tax base and social system as soon as you can do so.
Source: American trying to integrate in France.
Seems like Filipinos really like us.
I mean i dont mind americans per se, more so do i dislike the loudness and disrespect they often bring. But speaking as partner of an imigrant living in germany, jobmarket is hard even for natives. And you need to be fluent in german
Nowhere? Why would any community appreciate foreigners? Some communities don’t care and this is the best you can hope for.
Having a diverse origin of inhabitants is a plus for many places. It makes them more interesting, gives more opportunities to practise language skills, etc.
I live near Manchester now and it’s great for that, although I do recognise the opposite exists, too! (I live in Bolton which has huge, not-particularly-integrated minority populations). By contrast, when I go to visit my parents in another part of England, it’s all just beige boring people that haven’t ever left this corner of the world
Because they aren’t dicks, and immigrants bring more tax-paying workers.
Ignorant nonsense. I live in nyc and tons of us LOVE that people from other countries have moved here. Tons of blended immigrant neighborhoods is one of the things that makes this place so freaking fantastic. Chinatown, little Italy, koreatown, little Caribbean, little Odessa, Spanish Harlem,… fugeddaboutit
Your country is also not welcoming immigrants though.
This is a blunt comment, but it’s a realistic take. Most countries, especially in europe, have a housing and immigration problem. More people coming here won’t solve any problems. There’s a good chunk of people that don’t want any foreigners. Of course not everyone minds. But appreciative? Don’t see why. Maybe in countries where the population drops.
We dont have a housing crisis in the sense of volume we have a housing cost crisis. But that would also exist without imigration. Imigration is needed to keep up variouse social nets like retirement.
We also dont have a migration problem, but an integration problem. As partner to a brit in germany, they speak german fluent and got a degree at an age where even the state didnt belief it until we showed the degree. They have practical experience as well. And still its impossible for them to find a job. Job market is only in crisis regarding slave workers.
I’m not saying immigration is the cause of the problem, I am saying that most people in most european countries blame it on immigrants and refugees. Just look at the elections. So I really doubt anyone would be jumping for joy with more. They are more than welcome to come here, I don’t mind. Just… Good luck finding a house. (We do have a housing crisis here in the netherlands right now cause the whole system is gridlocked because of nitrogen)
I’m not saying immigration is the cause of the problem, I am saying that most people in most european countries blame it on immigrants and refugees.
Actually, yes, you said that immigration was the problem, that’s what “we have an immigration problem” means. If you genuinely don’t see the problem with that sentence, picture someone in the 1930s saying “we have a Jews problem”. Does that mean that this person thinks that antisemitism is a problem, or does that mean that they are antisemitic?
What we have is a racism problem, not an immigration problem.
Where did I say immigrants cause the problems then? I say we have an immigration problem because we can’t house them all. And every time they want to build more refugee shelters people protest them. Making the problem even bigger. But sure call me or nazi or something wtf.
But sure call me or nazi or something wtf.
Nobody called you a nazi… Wtf indeed.
You know, the part where you bring up 1930 and jews. Are you stupid?
“Imigrants” as the voters of right wing partys use it, means “anyone not white”. Just look at their rethoric. They dont talk about a swede the same way as they do about tunesians, turkish, iranians
I’m half expecting a lot of downvotes for this but…
How do you decide you don’t have a migration problem? Agreed you need migration and agreed that a lot of people see migration as the cause of a lot of problems that have more dominant causes but I also think that it’s possible to see some of the increase in far right / anti-migrant rhetoric as a measure of the capacity for migration. By that measure, even if I disagree with those people’s views, there is a signal that migration is having an effect (just probably not as much as political groups looking for power). Anyway, I’ve spent a bit of time thinking about the increase in far right groups and it seems like perceived economic stress and perceived issues with migrants align pretty well. I’m kind of hoping to learn I’m actually wrong or a mechanism that’s likely to reverse these trends besides stints of nationalism
Racists be racists. The problem is not imigration. The problem we are facing is out of control and too huge costs of living. The people voting faar right not holding those fascist, racist, conspiratory views, are afraid of their lively hood. Now should we kill the scape goat? No! That wont improve anything. The corperations need to be held accountable! The once causing this insane inhuman cost of living increase! Vonovia with their housings. Yes the state must step in and put restrictions on rent and electricity pricing.
The boomers are afraid of change and not liking the reality of them becoming irrelavent. You wont convince a fascist that deporting all the willing workers will improve anything based on facts and statistic. How will a 1.6 million less in the household expenses of germany do anything? Its a drop on the hot stone.
We need radical systemic change! However, racism, fascism, hate wont solve anything. The faar right gets voters threw just yelling easy solutions, widespread misinfo spread online helped by china, russia and USA and the failing of the old partys because they dont inovate/reform. And young people drift to the extrems because they dont see a future in the current system.
Example AfD. They mean to tell, germany will massively gain from leaving the EU, destroying all worker rights and trade unions, massively lowering the taxes off the rich and by deporting anyone they dont like (as they said in the Potsdam meeting) weather born potato german or having not #FFFFF as skin colour Hex Code.
Alone leaving the EU will create a economic depression seen like never before! In a few years the economy will have decreased by over ⅓ and unemployment rising astronomicly!
Yeah, I doubt leaving the EU would help most of the people supporting it:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w34459
This paper examines the impact of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union (Brexit) in 2016. Using almost a decade of data since the referendum, we combine simulations based on macro data with estimates derived from micro data collected through our Decision Maker Panel survey. These estimates suggest that by 2025, Brexit had reduced UK GDP by 6% to 8%, with the impact accumulating gradually over time. We estimate that investment was reduced by between 12% and 18%, employment by 3% to 4% and productivity by 3% to 4%. These large negative impacts reflect a combination of elevated uncertainty, reduced demand, diverted management time, and increased misallocation of resources from a protracted Brexit process. Comparing these with contemporary forecasts – providing a rare macro example to complement the burgeoning micro-literature of social science predictions – shows that these forecasts were accurate over a 5-year horizon, but they underestimated the impact over a decade.
I just don’t think pointing at information like this convinces anyone in the group that more vocally swung right in the last ten years
Exactly
I feel a bit guilty leaving some of the negativity here, so I thought I’d leave a more positive video pointing out how some of the baby boomer influencers in politics is beginning to lessen, but it’s pretty US focused:
If you get a job and pay your taxes Scandinavian countries most people don’t mind.
Are you American left, southern Europe left, eastern Europe left, or northern Europe left?
Left of most American left. Co-ops, labor unions, UBI, wealth tax, and universal healthcare, but also reparations, general strikes, land back, etc.
Any chance anyone is willing to define these for those of us that are a bit ignorant?
Eastern Europe’s left is like western Europe’s right
Greek American’s take: from left to right it gets more progressive, pointing out that even progressive Americans are still conservative in Scandinavia.
American who lives in Scandinavia now:
Yup. Bernie Sanders would be pretty center here imo
Center-right, really.
Your run of the mill moderate conservative.
And I think most of western Europe would see him that way.
He only looks progressive by contrast with his dystopic environment.
Agree as a native.
Nothing to crazy about what he wants to achieve. The crazy part (and I respect him for dedicating his life to it) is to attempt it in the US of all places.
The amount of bat shit crazy that has been allowed to rear its ugly head since the last election is impossible to wrap my head around.
Super happy Mamdani won NYC. It shows that there are places in the US we can still relate to.To answer OP: Personally I don’t care where you are from if you integrate and contribute to society. I haven’t met many Americans here, though…
There are dozens of us, dozens!
Super happy about Mamdani as well, especially as a NYer. The state of the US has been really rough for years but just especially ramping up recently. It’s cool to see the opposition to it rise up, and I love supporting it as much as I can from afar.
Men jeg er så glad for, at jeg har flyttet til Danmark
Du valgte feil Nordisk land, ellers gratulerer med nytt liv her i nord!
Du får komme en tur opp til oss hvor det er fjell, fjord, laks og folk som snakker forståelig, min venn.God Jul!
Never had any problems with Americans anywhere.
Portugal dislikes all immigration because it has ruined their housing market and made it impossible for natives to buy homes at their salary level.
Maybe its Americans buying houses but they dont really dislike Americans as people. They just want their home country to work for people who live there.
If you bring lots of money there are quite a few countries that are just fine with Americans showing up.
Also, quite a few countries are welcoming if you expend the multi-year effort to assimilate and contribute, and definitely not waste people’s time with unsolicited comparisons between their country and your former homeland.
Immigrants that accept that they are immigrants or self-described expats?
As long as you don’t try to make your surroundings a mini-'Murica you should be fine everywhere in Europe.
The people? No. Their money? Yes.
If you spend big in a community, you’ll be treated well, you’ll be an ‘expat’.
If you’re poor, you’re an immigrant and you are ruining the count.
pretty much. that’s why if you have a few million you can pretty much buy a visa/residency for any country.
I like the few Americans I know in Australia.
You mean “US immigrants” ? Housing is expansive because of tourism, speculation and secondary house; not immigration. If yo want to not spread oppressions, get along with organization that fight the rise of fascism where you are going, and helping people oppressed by the US state in US and elsewhere. Do not think you helping the people you are joining in avoiding their struggles. This is yours now
I moved to Canada and have only felt welcomed. The trick is to not be an asshole, give people a reason to want to be your friend.
The trick is to not be an asshole
a big Challenge for my Boomer American neighbor. All he does is spew right wing bullshit but he won’t move back to New York because of our healthcare.
Isn’t their whole thing complaining that Canada is a “socialist hellhole”? Wtf is he doing up here? Half the provinces don’t even have privatized liquor stores
They don’t believe the shit they say, don’t get tricked
What was the process like?
Very difficult and full of unprocessed grief
First take time to listen to people. Engage in their conversation. Whilst your opinions are valid take some time to listen to others instead of coming in hot with views that Canadians might feel upset about. After that build friendships from mutual acceptance. Sports is a good way to bond. If you can volunteer around your neighbourhood. You’ll find the transition easier if you try a little at the beginning. It will go a long way. You’ll soon forget the person you used to be.
I think they meant the immigration process
How cold is it? Native Texan and lived in Ohio for a few years but the winter was brutal, thinking about CO though I know winter is pretty rough there too.
Last winter was pretty brutal. It didn’t stop snowing for like two months. There would be an extra 2" (5cm) of snow every time I opened the door. Temperatures vary depending on where you are but can get pretty cold. Parts of Quebec are infamously cold. Toronto has been chilling around 20F (-6C) but can drop close to 0F (-17C) at times. Overall weather in Toronto is closest to Buffalo or parts of the northeast. Buffalo is only 2 hours away, for reference.
That said, the cities are absolutely prepared for winter. Many of them even have sprawling underground pedestrian networks, like the PATH in Toronto or the RÉSO in Montreal. Most people have winter tires. Outside the cities it’s a bit harsher though
Interesting, I probably won’t move there then lol, but appreciate the info!
I would prefer suburbs vs big city, too many people for my liking :p
Honestly the city is very good when it’s actually properly designed, unlike most north american cities.
TLDR is that living somewhere with good density (2-3 floor condos being the norm) while still having space so it’s not crowded, like most places having backyards that connect to the alley sounds like a compromise, but the upside is that you can walk to literally everywhere you could possibly need to go except maybe your job, which is a suprisingly big boon to qol.
I say this because I used to have a similar attitude, but moving from moncton to montreal really changed my mindset.
If you want an example of what I’m talking about you can see the “le plateau” neighborhood in google street view.
