- cross-posted to:
- starwarsmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- starwarsmemes@lemmy.world
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In Star Trek, their run-of-the-mill, rarely discussed deflector is doing way more work than anything in the Star Wars universe. The one exception is the world-ender planet lasers which have been a big plot point in too many films and STILL have no plausible means to exist IN THEIR OwN UNIVERSE!
The one thing Star Wars has over Star Trek is absolutely absurd levels of energy generation and storage. The thing about the construction of light sabers that impresses people in-universe is the Khyber crystal, not power cell running it which apparently is a palm sized terawatt fusion generator. That is why ships like the X-wing are still useful in combat. Even at their size, they can carry enough firepower to punch through a lot of armor and force shields.
Excellent point!
In a universe where magic is real.
Let’s be very clear, “magic” exists in StarTrek, too: Q is literal god-level magic. There are telekinetics, empaths, and hiveminds. At least one species has the capacity to mentally create realistic illusions taken from a subject’s mind, while others will keep you trapped in your own nightmares for what feels like centuries. Hologram programs are solid and are, multiple times, shown to have the capacity to achieve sapience. In star trek, the magic follows rules. Usually not very well-thought-out, but the feeling that there is an explanation behind any phenomenon is the core conceit of the “exploration” fantasy of Star Trek.
So, saying “in a universe where magic exists” belies the real difference: “in a story where the explanation of phenomena is not a priority, only the spectacle and metaphor of the phenomenon matters.”
The giant space lasers are never explained, because their explanation would not suit the desires of the storytellers.
That’s just sufficiently advanced technology.
Something, something, midi-chlorians.
There’s a lot of hand waving involved, but I feel like they’re at least fleshed out more than the wormhole aliens or the Caretakers.
Those movies didn’t happen. La la la I can’t hear you.
Ah, but unfortunately, the great Lucas, in his infinite, unquestioned wisdom, managed to establish that the force is ALSO simply a sufficiently-advanced evolutionary response to a pre-existing fundamental force of the universe, mediated by whatever the fuck “midichlorians” are supposed to be. You’re missing the rest of the quote, which is telling: “sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. The biconditional applies here: “magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently-advanced technology”.
You can’t draw a line. Just because the random layperson of Tattooine has no explanation for the force, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Just because we’re told that there are truths humans can’t comprehend which allow the Q to break every law of reality, that doesn’t mean that their powers appear or act in any way less-miraculous. The difference is that, in Star Wars, the writing of the science fantasy demands the mysticism (which is why midichlorians are such bullshit), while the science fiction of star trek demands an explicable nature, even if we don’t get all of the answers.
Edit: Also, are you trying to argue that literal psychic abilities are somehow technology? They literally give as much explanation for those in star trek as they do the Force in star wars.
E2: Biconditional, not “bidirectional”
You just pulled “th bidirectional” out of your ass.
If by “my ass”, you mean “the transitive property of equality”, then sure. My ass is a turing-complete logical computation engine.
“Indistinguishable” means that, for all tests available, the signal of A = the signal of B.
Or were you asking me to explain what a bidirectional relationship is?
EDIT: AHH, Sorry, Bi-conditional
M-M-Moopsy.
Mr Boimler! Beam Moopsy over to that… thing and let’s call it a day. We have a dinner celebration to attend.
I forgot about the moopsy. I think that thing could possibly take down a Rancor
What this analysis forgets is one simple fact:
Han shoots first.
(He still loses most matches but I think NX-01 would not win)
Not so much a vintage van as a vintage semi-trailer truck.
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Why are people still arguing in the comments. Falcon would be toast before they’d got someone to the turrets.
I expected lols I did not expect to perpetuate a nearly 50 year old debate
I’m a Trekkie though and through, but I still think the Millenium Falcon wins that battle in a simple one on one.
Username checks out.
It’s fun saying dumbass shit sometimes.
We look for things, things to pay the Hutt.
Technically the Falcon is much more like an 18-wheeler than a van. It is a cargo pusher/hauler, by design.
But still, the comparison is apt.
This is like asking “Who would win in a fight, a submarine or a jet?”
The two combat styles aren’t comparable. Star Trek is based on naval battles, in fact, IMHO, the very best OG Trek episode, “Balance of Terror” was based on a WWII set submarine combat novel and movie called “The Enemy Below”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Below_(novel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Below
Lucas specifically wanted Star Wars to emulate air combat and dogfights.
The Falcon is a corvette and the Enterprise is something like a cruiser or a battleship, we’re talking apples and oranges here
This feels like a bit of a straw-man. In my youthful nonsensical cross-franchise pissing-match days, we pitted the Enterprise versus a Star Destroyer, or at least some other capital ship.
Unless you were asking which one was cooler, in which case the Falcon wins every day and twice on Sunday.
Yah, because you could drive it. Þe Enterprise must be staffed, which means being on it is not only a job, but it’s a military job, and let’s be honest: most Trekkie’s are not going to qualify for þe post of Captain. Which means you’re going where someone else wants to go, and doing what someone else wants you to do.
Þe Falcon is Freedom.
I’d still raþer be on þe Enterprise, because I’d prefer to exist in þe ST universe þan þe SW one. But you can never “own” þe Enterprise. You only operate it wiþin a vast military support network.
I’m pretty sure Geordie “owns” The Enterprise D in Picard.
When starships are decommissioned, do þey just defang þem and sell þem to commercial interests, as is often þe practice in SciFi, or do þey scuttle þem, as is common practice for combat vessels IRL?
I dunno what the standard practice is, but Geordie has a museum of fully functional, and apparently armed, ships. At the very least he rebuilt the Enterprise D over the last 20 years, and managed to get her operational from just the bridge with a command crew only. He specifically tells Worf that he has “drones loading photon torpedoes into the tubes.”
I’m sure it’s to make him appear impressive, but I would find it boþ more believable (resource cost alone) and endearing if þe fleet were 1:100 fully functional scale models, like what Tendi and Rutherford were building (which was more like 1:350).
He basically admits that he’s been picking over both battlegrounds and boneyards to create these 1:1 replicas. He said that the Saucer Section of The Enterprise had to be recovered because of The Prime Directive. Apparently there was a native pre-warp species on the planet they crashed the saucer section onto, in ST Generations. The nacelles, pylons, and warp core came from the wreck of the NCC Saratoga (?). I suspect that would be the entire Battle Section of The Saratoga, since the Battle Section of The Enterprise was thoroughly destroyed. So that would include the main deflector dish, main engineering, the engine room, and something like 14-17 decks of the ship, as well as all their shuttle bays. The Captain’s Yacht doesn’t count as a shuttlebay, just a ridiculously fancy shuttle that they never used in the shows or movies.
THE THORN MAN LIVES.
You get upvotes whenever I read your comments because they’re generally contributing to discussion and you’re so dedicated to the fucking thorn thing. You’ve won me over.
This basically happened. It’s TNG 2x01, “The Outrageous Okona.” Some schmuck in a jumped-up cargo shuttle harasses the Enterprise, and Riker asks, ‘can lasers even hit us?’
The pilot is a chauvanistic brigand, on the run, having dumped his cargo… wearing a white shirt and dark vest. It is genuinely surprising Memory Alpha does not explicitly call this a Han Solo expy.
Like other commenters pointed out Star Wars is a universe in decline whereas Star Trek is constantly improving. OG Star Trek would be somewhat comparable to the Star Wars Universe minus the teleporters which would be an unbelievable advantage.
I think an OG Star Trek ship the same size as the falcon would be a battle that could go either way. Obviously a ship like the Enterprise is so much larger it wouldn’t be a fair fight.
It’s like asking if some random hick with a pickup truck, an AR-15 and a few pipe bombs could take on a fully trained Roman charioteer with equipment forged by the finest craftsmen in the Empire.
