There are fascists in Russia, too. Russia and Putin strongly express elements of fascism. Putin does not care about Nazis in Ukraine. They were invoked as an excuse to justify the invasion.
Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
A carnival of excuses for the nazis actually running the show in Ukraine. Its interesting that you act like this war began out of nowhere, and ignore the 13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government for being “too Russian”. Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
Both sides of the conflict are indictable, but atrocities cannot be excused on the same basis as war.
Please clarify “13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government”. Casualties in conflict are not murder, much less murder committed by the “by their own government”, even if the conflict could have been avoided.
The Banderites, after taking power and restricting things like the Russian language, responded to Donetsk and Luhansk seceding by shelling them, killing 13,000+ civilians between 2014 and 2022. Have a Reuters link and a link to OSCE itself. Toss in Human Rights Watch for good measure. Plenty of good sources. The point is that this same Banderite regime had amassed a ton of forces in the Donbass region and dramatically increased shelling in 2022, which prompted the DPR and LPR to request aid from Russia, to which they accepted.
The osce and hrw links say nothing casualties. The hrw strongly suggests that the shelling of a working kindergarten was done by russian backed separatists.
The Reuters article does back your number, buslt doesn’t suggest a campaign of ethnic cleansing by either side
Is acknowledging that Russia has committed atrocities incompatible with acknowledging that Russian-speaking groups may have legitimate grievances about rule by Ukraine?
Both Russia and Ukraine have committed war crimes, sure. Russia isn’t socialist any longer and isn’t exactly a moral paragon. However, letting the Banderites walk into Donetsk and Luhansk and slaughter them would have been a humanitarian disaster, and the fact that the seperatists in Donetsk and Luhansk seperated due to the fascist coup is hugely important in this discussion.
Russian-speaking groups in Ukraine certainly may have legitimate grievances. Whether they were worth a prolonged conflict is questionable. Most of the bloodshed could have been avoided by such groups accepting the terms of rule by Ukraine, despite their grievances. They would not be fully satisfied, but also not be bombarded by shelling. The conflict is a civil war, not ethnic cleansing.
Regardless, Russia is not liberatory. Life under Russian rule for Russian-speaking groups in the contested regions would be oppressive just as life is oppressive generally for Russians, and even if life for such groups is oppressive under rule by Ukraine. The situation in the contested regions was invoked as an excuse to garner popular support for the invasion, and helping the population was not authentically a motive.
Framing Russia as humanitarian or liberatory is absurd, and defending its atrocities is disgusting.
There are fascists in Russia, too. Russia and Putin strongly express elements of fascism. Putin does not care about Nazis in Ukraine. They were invoked as an excuse to justify the invasion.
Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
Whataboutism
A carnival of excuses for the nazis actually running the show in Ukraine. Its interesting that you act like this war began out of nowhere, and ignore the 13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government for being “too Russian”. Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
By the way, what do you think the reason for the invasion is? Some braindead shit about “more land” or “wanting to bring back the soviet union”? Or are you so immersed in an action movie reality that you don’t even wonder, because there are simply Good Guys and Bad Guys?
Both sides of the conflict are indictable, but atrocities cannot be excused on the same basis as war.
Please clarify “13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government”. Casualties in conflict are not murder, much less murder committed by the “by their own government”, even if the conflict could have been avoided.
he’s talking about the campaign of ethnic cleansing your heroes were committing before the war started that led to the war
don’t know how the fuck you twist your brain into not calling it murder, but you are defending an openly nazi government after all
Who are my heroes?
Regardless, please clarify “the campaign of ethnic cleansing”.
The Banderites, after taking power and restricting things like the Russian language, responded to Donetsk and Luhansk seceding by shelling them, killing 13,000+ civilians between 2014 and 2022. Have a Reuters link and a link to OSCE itself. Toss in Human Rights Watch for good measure. Plenty of good sources. The point is that this same Banderite regime had amassed a ton of forces in the Donbass region and dramatically increased shelling in 2022, which prompted the DPR and LPR to request aid from Russia, to which they accepted.
The osce and hrw links say nothing casualties. The hrw strongly suggests that the shelling of a working kindergarten was done by russian backed separatists.
The Reuters article does back your number, buslt doesn’t suggest a campaign of ethnic cleansing by either side
Ukraine represses separatist movements, just like Russia and every other state.
How does it bear on Russia having committed atrocities?
Oh, there was a separatist movement? How come, why did all those people all decide to separate?
I bet it was those dirty lying russians tricking them into not wanting to be killed by Banderites
Is acknowledging that Russia has committed atrocities incompatible with acknowledging that Russian-speaking groups may have legitimate grievances about rule by Ukraine?
Both Russia and Ukraine have committed war crimes, sure. Russia isn’t socialist any longer and isn’t exactly a moral paragon. However, letting the Banderites walk into Donetsk and Luhansk and slaughter them would have been a humanitarian disaster, and the fact that the seperatists in Donetsk and Luhansk seperated due to the fascist coup is hugely important in this discussion.
Russian-speaking groups in Ukraine certainly may have legitimate grievances. Whether they were worth a prolonged conflict is questionable. Most of the bloodshed could have been avoided by such groups accepting the terms of rule by Ukraine, despite their grievances. They would not be fully satisfied, but also not be bombarded by shelling. The conflict is a civil war, not ethnic cleansing.
Regardless, Russia is not liberatory. Life under Russian rule for Russian-speaking groups in the contested regions would be oppressive just as life is oppressive generally for Russians, and even if life for such groups is oppressive under rule by Ukraine. The situation in the contested regions was invoked as an excuse to garner popular support for the invasion, and helping the population was not authentically a motive.
Framing Russia as humanitarian or liberatory is absurd, and defending its atrocities is disgusting.
What word do you need sounded out? What are you confused about? What needs clarification?
You were told the thing. Maybe punch it into duck duck go instead of folding your arms and digging your heels in.
Like the burden of you learning what you’re taking a strong fucking stand on should fall on the people you’re being oppositional towards.
The ones you slava
Identifying a few factions, dates, and names of the events would be a solid way to respond to a request for clarification.
Do you describe the Second World War as “bad thing where people died”, or could you think of more details that elucidate the events?