You must log in or register to comment.
Yay! /s
If you really were still naive enough to think that a public tech company cares about your right to privacy at that point, it’s pretty much on you.
Regarding this as a flaw is a bit thin right? Massive breach of trust and huge legal issues.
“Flaw”
Apple is more secure than microsoft.
The initial setup of macOS offers disk encryption by default, but also prompts the user to upload the FileVault recovery keys to iCloud. It’s more transparent than Windows, which, if I recall correctly, just silently encrypts the disk and uploads the key to Microsoft servers.
iCloud’s Advanced Data Protection (ADP) feature, which enables E2E encryption, does protect these recovery keys, but I would worry about them being copied elsewhere or retained in unprotected backups after ADP is enabled.
One would probably want to regenerate the FileVault encryption keys after enabling ADP and potentially fully disable uploading the recovery keys to iCloud.
Similarly, it is possible to disable uploading of the BitLocker decryption key in Windows with the Pro and Enterprise versions.
Personally, I doubt most users would use disk encryption if they had to keep track of the disk recovery keys on their own, so this provides meaningful protection against exfiltration of sensitive information if an adversary were to have brief physical access to the device or were to steal it, but it does no good at all for protecting against Microsoft, someone with deep access to Microsoft’s systems, or legal requests to Microsoft.
The same goes for Apple users who don’t have ADP enabled for their iCloud accounts or who have enabled ADP without later regenerating their FileVault keys. (I don’t think one can be reasonably sure that there will be no traces of the cleartext FileVault recovery key on Apple’s servers after ADP is enabled for iCloud.)
Ultimately, so many users should better engage a culture of privacy and security, think seriously about their threat models, and think about what would happen if one where to get access to their sensitive information.
Because you think they didnt do the same ?
Apple markets security well, but this isn’t about apple vs microsoft vs google. All of them work with governments and collect data. “more secure” depends on threat model, configuration and transparency; not the brand.
We are not talking about privacy, right… They are making the world safe for us within no privacy… very well :)
This is not directly on Microsoft as you have to be either ignorant or special kind of stupid to upload your encryption keys to US cloud. The government can request access to any data and a company can’t do anything.
The only way to resist this is to not store anything unencrypted from your customers which is quite doable but clearly microsoft has no interest in this.
It’s a bit directly on Microsoft, unless you go out of your way, bitlocker will upload the keys to Microsoft. They assume you want them to help recover your data if your tpm becomes unavailable.
Interesting fun fact, when I tried to swype type bitlocker it really wanted to put bootlicker instead.
Just not use Microslop. It’s easier.
In most situations, your BitLocker recovery key is automatically backed up when BitLocker is first activated:
Unless your base argument is “Microsoft users are all stupid”, then I remind you that this is not only default behavior, but is mandatory if your account is associated with an EmtraID account (i.e. any business or school)
Yes, my point stands.
I thought only the Chinese government had access to Chinese company data.
Windows no longer allows local accounts.
It does.
- A user in the EU
Edit:
MS KB entry in Germany: https://support.microsoft.com/de-de/windows/verwalten-von-benutzerkonten-in-windows-104dc19f-6430-4b49-6a2b-e4dbd1dcdf32- section: “Erstellen eines Benutzerkontos”
Third step, option C
Wenn Sie die Option Ich habe keine Anmeldeinformationen für diese Person auswählen, können Sie sich für eine neue E-Mail-Adresse registrieren und ein neues Microsoft-Konto erstellen. Wenn Sie ein lokales Konto erstellen möchten, wählen Sie die Option Benutzer ohne Microsoft-Konto hinzufügen aus.
Is it made easy for the average user?
Absolutely not.Is it impossible?
No.
Finally some users with a level and rational brain…
I was heavily downvoted in another instance (eyeroll).
who would use that for illegal stuff? prison is full of them.
Exposing? Microsoft has made it very clear for a while that your Bitlocker keys are synced to your Microsoft account.
Hell, they even have a support page for it. Most of their support pages are nearly useless, but this one is even readable by a normal person.
And before someone mentions the part about Microsoft Support not having access to keys (because some smart ass always does for this stuff)… Just think for a second. Of course customer support doesn’t have access to the keys. What Support can do is not a limit for legal disclosure. A legal warrant (like used here) means they’ll give any info they have in a heartbeat.
Don’t store your secrets on the cloud.
EVER.
sentiment yes but there are FOSS tools to store things in google/microsoft/apple drives or the various object stores (s3, backblaze, etc) that work just like the various drives, but with end to end encryption where you control the keys
in general just don’t let anyone else control your encryption keys… where you store things is almost beside the point
bonus: encryption means they can’t dedupe/compress so you get to waste their money
Could you point me in the right direction for these tools?
Why can’t just one of our companies not be blood-sucking assholes?
Why would a company not be, not like people are going to stop using Windows
If only there were another operating system that people could use rather than have their privacy and security raked over the coals by poor design fueled by next quarter’s profits.
It’s a shame that, according to a recent study of social media respondents, 98% of the Internet are Professional Valorant streamers, who play League of Legends and side hustle as a Mechanical Engineer and Digital Artist or they could browse around the world of alternative operating system and mayhaps find some other Operating System which fits their needs (TempleOS).
Lol yeah we have literal death squads using data from data brokers to identify where to raid, yet asking one to not use Google Chrome is simply too much.
Yeah, but giving up my Apex Legends career and most significant life investment is a lot harder than tolerating a little fascism, what with me being a white person and all.
(/s because there are Apex Legends players scrolling by between rounds)
It wasn’t gonna be M$ my guy
Because if a company gives up profits to be nice, another company will swoop in and get inherently rewarded by doing the profitable thing instead
*laughs in rich*
go ask adam smith.
I mean, it was never going to be Microsoft
It’s all being dumped into data centers now. Google and Meta don’t need your face to prove who you are to create a new login, they need it to link data. What’s awful is the need to log in is so intense, it worked. Apparently YouTube aspirations are worth it. And shopping Facebook marketplace.
Now, Amazon isn’t allowing returns for many an individual without a pic or upload of government issued ID. Amazon allowed you to both pay and have an item shipped without this ID. But for a return, they now need it. I’m not saying this ask isn’t multipurpose, but it also links your data together and is probably being dumped into data centers with everything else.
My point is, it’s not just Microsoft’s choices.
Didn’t this happen with an iPhone a few years back? FBI couldn’t get into a suspect’s phone, Apple stood firm publicly, but then somehow the FBI got in anyway? Maybe I’m misremembering.
Apparantly that suspect had a 4 digit pin so once they bypassed the Secure Enclave, they can brute force it in 10 seconds
For Phones, 20 character alphanumeric password is a hassle, but for computers, you can easily use a 10 word passphrase.
If you use a long password, bypassing the password entry limit doesn’t matter if the algorithm itself is secure.
In this case, the key was uploaded to a microsoft account… so you don’t even need a back door, just walk right in…
but for computers, you can easily use a 10 word passphrase.
Correct Horse Battery Staple
Thanks, Mine is: Incorrect Cow AC-Power Paperclip
/j
Mine is ***********************
Weird, when you type your root password it posts as stars.
hunter2
Why is it always password123?
That was the opposite. The FBI got in, but without Apples help.
Also iCloud has a distinct option to not give Apple your recovery keys. I believe the had to disable it in the UK to comply with regulations.
2026 linux
On Linux, selecting LUKS when you install encrypts the disk without the potential for this problem. So far it’s proven to be very reliable at stopping state level actors, just don’t use a password that you use elsewhere
But don’t forget to upload a recovery key to your favorite pastebin site. It is easy to loose access otherwise!
You can also, with a bit of fiddling use hardware security keys like Yubikey: https://gist.github.com/cmedianu/470a49038e919cf5bc98cd0d2299c484 if you don’t want to remember passwords (You can also install a password in another LUKS slot and it will fall-back to the password if your key fails)
If they’re selling bitlocker as “full-disk encryption”, doesn’t that open them up to a class action since encryption with a backdoor isn’t encryption?
Nah, it’s encryption all right, they just back up the key in case you lose it. Which is a feature. https://aka.ms/bitlockerrecovery
I hear iMessage e2e-encrypted messages are also backed up into cloud as plaintext…
plain text is probably the wrong phrasing, but apple does control all your keys
no matter who it is, the key holder can always read your data
Apple did add a new feature to iCloud called Advanced Data Protection, which enables E2E encryption on iCloud contents, which includes message and device backups.
After enabling this, it is likely prudent to regenerate FileVault keys. It’s also notable that for the initial setup of macOS, it does offer you to forego uploading the recovery key to iCloud, but selecting this option presents a warning stating that Apple will be unable to help you retrieve your data if you lose it. Thus, I am certain most Mac users just upload them to iCloud, which opens them up to exactly the same issue as in the article, but does help protect against thieves or adversaries with brief device access.
I have tried to convince Apple users I know to enable ADP, but I have been faced with the expected dismissal of it being unnecessary because they are not interesting, etc.
More people need to engage in a culture of security and privacy when it comes to their digital lives.
Edit: added missing word
lol. Last time I checked the rule of law in the US only matters if corporations want it to
Oh you can sue if you have Epic Games level of money and access to lawyers. Otherwise corporate says “fuck you”.
The keys were very likely uploaded to the linked MS-account.
This is communicated as a backup in case you loose the key.Breach of trust? Yep
Backdoor? Not very much.Uploading the key to the cloud is a backdoor. The encryption is only as secure as the your key.
Sure doesnt sound like that to me.
A backdoor is a typically covert method of bypassing normal authentication or encryption in a computer, product, embedded device (e.g. a home router), or its embodiment
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)
Not very covert if it is offered to a user.
If MS gives up the key that is stored plainly in their system, that is a problem. But not a backdoor.
This is quite literally the police knocking on the front door and demanding the key.This is a meaningless, pedantic argument. Call it backdoor or something else, it does not matter. What matters is that it renders the encryption worthless.
If I stick the key outside of the apartment the lock is also useless.
In the end it’s the carelessness of the user and not some nefarious scheme the big bad corp trying to come for your homework folder.
You should really touch some grass and stop playing cyberpunk2077 so much. For your own mental being.
We’re talking about the default option here.
Grey area, user chose to store the private bitlocker key to their online Microsoft acct, it’s optional. It’s still a dirtbag move, but probably less illegal.
While optional, it is also the default behavior.
it’s default in that it’s the top item on the list, but I can’t actually fault them much here, that dialog is crystal clear and you have to log into a Microsoft account to save it there. They don’t really push you very hard to put the key into their cloud.
I fault them more for not using zero-knowledge encryption to protect the user’s key.
the other options won’t let you continue without performing the actions in a way that windows likes. So for someone trying to set up their PC, only the first option has zero cost.
option two requires an external drive without encryption
option 3 requires setting up a printer from that screen, so you can print the page. it won’t let you continue otherwise.
if you want to back up in some other way, you just don’t (or use PDF conversion from the print dialog)
They want the key, verifiably off the box, in clear text. Any usb stick. any sd card. Not great, but not any barrier that’s worse than needing to setup a microsoft account.
No they’re not really technically “selling” it. Its bundled with Windows.
Its the home edition thing where they require a microsoft account. Afaik, for the Pro version of Windows, Bitlocker doesn’t require a microsoft account.
They’re selling Windows and one of the selling points is that it includes full disk encryption. Thus they are selling full disk encryption.
Most people have windows because of OEM keys, so you don’t really have a direct bussiness relationship with Windows so its kinda harder to sue.
If you build a pc then separately bought a key, then you might have a better case.
(Disclaimer: I am not a laywer)
What if you downloaded an iso from Microsoft and typed a simple command into powershell to activate it? 🏴☠️
But yeah all I’m saying is Microsoft are definitely on shaky ground with their sales claim here. However it’s no less shaky than things they were already convicted of years ago yet seem to be doing yet again, eg bundling Internet Explorer/Edge as the default browser - which has now expanded into occassionally resetting your default apps to Microsoft ones with system updates.
What if you downloaded an iso from Microsoft and typed a simple command into powershell to activate it? 🏴☠️
I mean you’re gonna have to prove in court how you’ve been “harmed” and if you don’t have a sales receipt from microsoft, then I don’t see how a court is gonna side with you.
Pretty sure some lawyer that works for Microsoft is gonna try to counterclaim and say you committed copyright infringement by bypassing the normal activation method.
And can you even afford lawyers lol? Most of us cannot afford constantly paying for laywers that cost $200/hour on the cheaper end, and suing a massive corporation is an uphill battle.
Lol setting aside the joke, and of course if you don’t pay you won’t have a case, but if you had paid I think there would be some statutory rights that would make a claim straightforward and wouldn’t require a lawyer. Small claims is a pretty universal concept regardless of jurisdiction, the limit varies but everywhere has some similar avenue. Filing fees are small and lawyers are not usually involved, just two parties and a judge, and these days it can be done remotely.
Mandatory Arbitration in ToS have entered the chat
You have like 30 days, from the date of sale, to opt out in most of these clauses, if you didnt mail a fucking letter to them to opt out, then you’re fucked.
