- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- politics@sh.itjust.works
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- politics@sh.itjust.works
- politics@lemmy.world
California Attorney General Rob Bonta last night filed a request for a preliminary injunction in California’s existing case against Amazon for price fixing. Attorney General Bonta’s 2022 lawsuit alleged that the company stifled competition and caused increased prices across California through its anticompetitive policies in order to avoid competing on price with other retailers. New evidence paints a clearer and more shocking picture. The motion for a preliminary injunction comes after a robust discovery process where California uncovered evidence of countless interactions in which Amazon, vendors, and Amazon’s competitors agree to increase and fix the prices of products on other retail websites to bolster Amazon’s profits. Time and again, across years and product categories, Amazon has reached out to its vendors and instructed them to increase retail prices on competitors’ websites, threatening dire consequences if vendors do not comply. Vendors, bullied by Amazon’s overwhelming bargaining leverage and fearing punishment, comply — agreeing to raise prices on competitors’ websites (often with the awareness and cooperation of the competing retailer), or to remove products from competing websites altogether. Amazon’s goal is to insulate itself from price competition by preventing lower retail prices in the market at the expense of American consumers who are already struggling with a crisis of affordability.
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oh I just cant wait for the highest profile minor slap on the wrist of the century!
Dont worry guys well give one of the richest men in the world a 100k fine!
Yeah don’t worry. They’ll get a small fine and will appeal and drag it out for years
I could see them threatening something absurd like no longer shipping to California.
They’re BUSTED when someone goes to prison.
For now they’re just SLAMMED
Just wait until they get BLASTED in a strongly worded email.
Well, it’s California’s attorney general, so better than even chance for actual punishment.
“Europeans need to be harder on Amazon” Wags greased finger
There was a time when Amazon was not full of scummy rip-off products, when it was not playing games with prices, when it was not a cloud-computing powerhouse, and you know what happened?
That’s right, they crushed their adversaries (retail shopping) and earned billions in profits. They won.
But somehow that’s not enough winning, there isn’t enough winning until all the value has been vacuumed up from the world.
Bezos explicitly undercut the competition for years to drive all of the competition out of business. Amazon took as much time from 1997-2016 to make as much profit as they did in 2017, which is also (not) coincidentally when they hit peak market saturation and were able to start raising their prices.
So what you’re talking about was real, but it wasn’t like, “back when Amazon was good”, they were just preparing for what they are now. Having a huge monopoly on just about everything has always been their win condition, and they’re no where near done winning.
Yeah. It’s the same thing Uber did with pushing cab services out of business.
Not only that, but AWS is the real money maker for them. Not that retail and gaming and prime and whatever don’t also make boat loads of cash, but it doesn’t even graze AWS. The scale of these data centers is unreal and most of the internet runs on AWS.
I’m an industrial electrician with background on what they’re ordering and installing in terms of control panels and if you saw the weekly shipments it’d make you sick. And we’re only one supplier, they have others.
I think it’s worse because Bezos (ex-wallstreet) had his buddies at Bain Capital short-and-distort competing companies into bankruptcy, which has the added bonus of clearing the tax burden from the gains on those shorts.
And that is why I no longer buy anything from them. I’m just embarrassed it took me as long as it did to realize what they were really doing.
The frustrating thing is we can’t boycott AWS since so many of the sites we use run on it. But yes, we absolutely shouldn’t buy things through Amazon or any of the other web stores Amazon owns.
we absolutely shouldn’t buy things through Amazon or any of the other web stores Amazon owns.
I try to use eBay as an alternative, though i find every 3-4 orders i place there, i get one in an Amazon box that by all rights appears to have been shipped by Amazon. I swear people are drop-shipping stuff from Amazon to their eBay buyers.
They are. If it has free returns and thousands of feedback it’s probably a drop shipper. Return it and use the eBay label it ends up costing them money.
I have often wondered whether targeted internet boycott days would shake up AWS, but I don’t know enough about their billing structure to run the numbers to see how much that would dig into AWS profits + how much of their income is flat subscription fees vs. billing on number of calls and haven’t had a chance to dig into it yet.
You would basically have to convince a few hundred million people to not use the internet for months at a time with out a single percentage of them breaking the boycott to actually even start to hit aws.
Countless things have to start failing before aws even starts to feel it since it’s not a consumer product. You basically have the drive all the companies using it to near bankruptcy so they can’t afford to pay for aws anymore.
AKA the Walmart method.
Walmart didn’t even touch amazon on this. There were articles for years about how mind boggling (and the articles were praising, not even critical of) it was that amazon’s investors were content to let bezos run amazon on a net zero or even negative profit model. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of walmart not pulling a profit.
You can’t really compare online book retailer Amazon to global online marketplace Amazon. Your underlying point is still mostly correct, but I would exclude the years that they were primarily focused on books. From my lived memory they didn’t really become the online retail juggernaut until a few years after the launch of Prime. Free shipping turned them into what it is today. So maybe the best comparison would be from like 2006-2016? Or maybe I’m wrong and the distinction isn’t necessary. Idk. I’m just trying to foster conversation
Yeah, I remember Amazon the book store. I still had my mom take me to the local bookstores, cause I knew them and the people, so I was comfortable lol. I remember when Prime launched. I don’t think anyone was expecting that, at the time. Free 2-day shipping on so many products was insane. And all for $89?/yr? Especially, when everywhere else online charged anywhere from $5-10. It was truly the Walmart of the online world. They ate shipping costs, which killed them, and put hurt their competition until AWS became such a powerhouse and they had a monopoly on online marketplaces.
That’s what’s crazy to me, they survived the dot com crash and were so diversified that I have no idea how they stayed afloat. I would think that all of the combined expenses across all of their ventures without a true cash cow would sink them. Instead they survived and became the trash heap of consumer rights violations that they are.
The reason Amazon survived is because they WEREN’T running a dozen different ventures. They were an online bookstore and people kept buying books. Amazon benefited from the crash because that was when they started buying up servers to build AWS. Prime was just free 2 day shipping on books when it launched.
Ehhh not really. They operated at massive losses for a decade or more to eliminate the competition while growing their customer base. This is simply stage 1 of enshittification. You can only do this if you’re unbelievably filthy fucking rich. Then at some point they needed to cash out on all the good will and reputation they developed and that brings us to the shithole economy of today where people are simply too lazy to shop anywhere else.
The other commenters here are right about Amazon’s initial methods, but I’m also going to highly recommend Cory Doctorow’s Enshittification for a detailed explanation of how this happens (including a breakdown on Amazon specifically) and what to do about it.
It’s easy to crush the competition when you purposely take a loss as an investment in future market share.
To quote a favorite singer of mine,
You could fill a man with gold, and still have room for greed.
I cannot express enough how angry I am that people still use amazon. Major cringe when friends tell me all the shit they buy on there. I used it 10 years ago a couple times, never once since then. Its shit, slave labor, and enriches billionaires. No one forces you to use it.
Unfortunately, they are a master at driving local businesses out of money. Buying a certain pet food at my local retailer (a franchisee) would be about $30. On Amazon, it’s $25 (and sometimes even $15-20, if you do the subscription discount). At the local store, I’d have to pay more and drag the stuff home on my own feet.
It’s the Walmart model. A lot of the frustration is that it’s a systemic problem where individuals are incentivized against their best interests and the best interests of their communities.
Because shareholders. The Line, must go up.
Thankfully (/s) Amazon has enough money that it’s cheaper to bribe politicians than provide a better product. So systemic solutions are that much more difficult.
I avoid Amazon as much as possible, though on occasion I’ve more or less had no other reasonable choice. But that’s happened something like 4 times in the last 10 years or so.
The big problem with boycotting Amazon is that while it’s easy enough to avoid buying from their online store as much as possible, AWS (Amazon Web Services) is pretty much unavoidable if you’re using the modern internet.
It’s cringe because it’s affordable and convenient? Whenever I buy something from there I always price compare online and it’s the cheapest hands-down. Some people don’t have the luxury of constantly considering geopolitics and large-scale repercussions when they’re just simply trying to get by.
It super depends on what you’re buying. Personally, I just go without in order to avoid them. The only things I ever buy from Amazon are things I cannot find anywhere else that I need to have, such as water filters for the lead pipes in Montréal.
We don’t have the luxury to ignore how bad Amazon is. Amazon is aware of this and does everything it can to force you to buy from them by under cutting other businesses until competition dries up. Every time I can buy something for a little bit more and skip Amazon that’s a huge a win for everyone from the original supplier, the more local store selling it, and the working class in general.
Edit: Reading and writing more comments, I’m gunna find a way to get those filters from elsewhere even if they cost a bunch more.
No bro water filters from Amazon are unethical, please expose yourself to lead because some guy on lemmy is virtue signaling /s
I cannot tell what side of the argument you’re trying to be on here, gunna be real hokest with ya.
Sure, but there’s many people who are wealthy enough to make the choice and still use amazon because they dont know any better. And this is what happens.
“some people don’t have the luxury of considering whether their product is made from death camp body parts when they’re just simply trying to get by”
Jesus H Fucking Christ. How about electing a government that will regulate Amazon instead of comparing poor people who need consumer goods to nazis. This is some tankie ass behavior
You missed the point completely, so I’ll lay it out for you: Everyone has to draw a line SOMEWHERE. And when a country whose government sends fascist death squads into the streets is supported by a company, there’s a fuckton of lines to be drawn.
There’s ZERO excuse for doing business with amazon. No one is starving because they can’t shop there. So GTFO with your lazy ass morally corrupt exuses.
Yeah, these people saying they NEED amazon probably didn’t live in ye olden days without internet. We survived then, you can survive now.
There’s thousands if not millions of sellers all over the internet. People are lazy/dumb and just want to 1 click buy and are scared to go anywhere but amazon.
And then have the nerve to argue on behalf of “poor people” most of whom probably don’t have any spare money to buy convenience products on amazon.
I mean Walmart wiped out every other store so that’s usually where “poor” people have to go, especially in small towns. Amazon is doing it on a much larger scale.
Feel free to provide goods to my rural community any time! You can’t believe that poor people have budget consideration and seek the cheapest product?
Use eBay or literally any other site. What is so specific to amazon that you need ? Amazon isn’t even cheaper in many cases if you actually search.
Once all the competitors are gone, they will increase the prices to absurd, heartless levels
Its always the plan. Walmart. Discord. They all do the exact same thing. Which is why we must resist.
If America was a serious country they would break up Amazon for this AND arrest Bezos and send him to a random Supermax for corporate blackmail, mass fraud, and unfair competition. But I fear they never were.
America was bought by the corpos a long time ago.
One could argue it’s always been about the wealthy.
it has always been about cheap labor that’s for sure, the united stated was built by slaves, that’s why they love dubai so much
The Guantanamo Bay detention camp is a stain on America and a threat to all of us now.
I’m being hyperbolic, but I do think every CEO of every company in America worth hundreds of billions should be arrested, have their companies broken up, and said CEOs sent to Supermax prisons for mass fraud.
A nitpick, but America won’t have Gitmo in that scenario tho. Displacing american people to random countries now is deeply rooted in the premise it’s okay to have a torture camp franchized over to places out of everyone’s sight. It wasn’t okay before and it’s not now, and serious country with some sense and a accountability would not employ such tactic.
If you did want to nitpick Bezos hasn’t run Amazon since 2021, so we’d have to check when they were being accused of doing so.
5 years on and most of us think Bezos everytime we hear Amazon still
I mean, how can we be so sure Bezos doesn’t still have influence over Amazon? He sure owns a lot of stocks in it for obvious reasons. He’s bought the Washington Post to spread propaganda. He’s set up Blue Origin to get government contracts. I’ve no reason to believe that he’s not apart of the Amazon problem and their influence over American Markets.
Something about one big club.
He certainly has an influence - he’s still the chairman of the board. He gets to decide who gets fired and when. In some ways, he found a way to have more influence, while being less hands-on.
This is why you shouldn’t buy US
As far as distractions from the Epstein Files go, this is an exciting one.
Can’t wait for them to be fined one penny for every $20B made.
Hey now, don’t get your hopes up.
…did bezos get mixed up the honeypot?..
Quickest solution? Stop buying from Amazon. I quit cold turkey and the sky does not fall. I still buy what I need. I am sometimes saved from buying stuff that I don’t really need but was easily available. Just stop buying from them. They are the evil capitalism that everyone complains about.
Not possible for some people, for example I wanted some very basic batteries (LR736), couldn’t find it anywhere in the nearest big town which is already 30km away.
Should I order a pack of them from Amazon for 1.8€, should i drive 160km to go buy them, or should I buy it in another online store and pay 6€ shipping? Easy choice no?
6€ is enough for you to give a sale to Amazon and take a sale away from a better business? That’s how cheap your morals are?
…i place amazon orders maybe a half-dozen times per year, typically hard-to-find specialty items from manufacturers who only offer an amazon storefront…
Bezos was a hedge fund manager. This should surprise nobody.
Bezos was a Senior VP by the age of 30, working for D.E. Shaw, and was a rumored heir for taking over the business after he retires. Bezos would have made billions and managed a major hedge fund. Set for life.
But that was not enough for him, he wanted to hoard hundreds of billions of wealth instead, so here we are. How perfectly healthy and in no way a mental illness.
I’ve been telling people to stop supporting amazon for years, but everyone seems to have their reason to keep supporting them. This hopefully will be a good enough reason for people to finally stop shopping on amazon.
I haven’t bought anything from amazon in over 12 years. I find everything on the manufacturer’s website or eBay. No need to ever use amazon for anything.
I was going on buy some jack stands for my car and saw the exact same models from harbor freight or auto zone on Amazon. Even if you’re not trying to support Amazon, you can’t escape the slop products.
Hey pal, do not use shit stores for car work. You are endangering your life. Please get a proper jack from Napa or at least northern tool or something. Harbor freight is for pry bars and shit, not life saving equipment.
Get a carlyle Jack as well. Affordable and lasts a lifetime. Dont skimp.on anything holding a car or an engine. I don’t care how poor you are. You will get hurt.
I find the Amazon experience and prices to often be worse than elsewhere
I’ve found the Shop App to be a good alternative along with eBay. Shop App is basically a search engine for retailers who use Shopify, which is a ton of them. From my research it seems to be generally better for retailers.
Same boat, I cancelled prime 5 years ago. My wife will activate for the holidays but I refuse to use it
Supposing the prices they charge are still less than what you would pay for the convenience of purchasing a product with no extra effort, why would you switch?
I have myself had aspirations to buy fewer things from Amazon. However. Even including stuff like this, I am happy to pay $10 extra to not have to dick around.
I hope Amazon has to pay money for this and that it hurts their business model, bit as a customer they are still scratching my itch 2 times out of 3.
Okay. Here’s my story. I have been looking for a 4K 32 to 43 inch monitor for my PC. TV or monitor, I just wanted 4k 120hz minimum. Didn’t really care about IPS or VA panels. Both have their pro’s and con’s.
So I ended up getting a Philips Google TV 43" 4K Gaming TV with native 144Hz refresh rate. The asking price from Amazon was 450 CAD. everywhere I looked online It was 50 bucks more OR they were the same price, but charged 50 bucks in shipping.
THAT’S why I use Amazon. IF I can find it cheaper elsewhere, I’ll buy it somewhere else. For me price is everything since I’m on a fixed income.
Okay, but have you considered that Amazon is the reason prices are high?
Obviously, none of these other retailers had a hand in it.
Exactly what they got “busted” for
You’re not alone in that. A lot of people’s care for ethics ends where a good deal begins.
What you should know is that these companies offer these good deals for a variety of reasons, but usually involving shady or borderline illegal business practices in one way or another.
I understand you’re on a fixed income - I sympathize with that and I don’t want to be rude to a stranger - but is the deal on a particular item you want worth the cost of endorsing what these companies do and stand for?
That 50 bucks means I only eat rice for a week. I’ve done it before, but I do not enjoy it.
$50 is the difference between having to eat only rice for a week, but you absolutely NEED a gaming monitor thats 32-43 inches with 4K resolution and 120hz refresh rate?
The only person your justifying your continued use of amazon to is yourself, and you’re doing a poor job.
Average Lemmy user 😅
And I’ll keep on doing it!
More power to you I guess. Hogs love rolling in shit.
I only roll in yours, because apparently it doesn’t stink…
I don’t think I’m expressing myself clearly. I understand the fixed income part and what 50 bucks can do to a person’s living situation. No issue there.
On the front end of your decision, you’re starting with “I need X with Y and Z”. None of these variables are negotiable? The “need” isn’t negotiable? Or are they not as negotiable as the care for the company’s awful business practices?
The systemic issues are the primary concern, but it is worth thinking about and examining within ourselves. We are ill-equipped to make informed decisions prior to every purchase. However, once we know how a particular purchase supports degrading the world around us, where is the line we won’t cross for a good deal?
I"m sorry my horse apparently doesn’t go as high as yours… 🙄
That’s needlessly insulting after I’ve been nothing but cordial with you. Me bringing up things that bring you discomfort to think about doesn’t mean I’m the bad guy here. Have a nice day, and enjoy your TV.
clip clop, clip clop, clip clop…
Aren’t most people on a fixed income?
Is such a TV… necessary?
Have you considered saving some for a few months and then buy the TV?What do you think I’ve been doing? That took me four months.
There are a lot of people online who think that 100% abstinence from The Bad is the only way to be good.
But if you can shift 10% of your former Amazon spending, do it. And keep looking for a way to get to 15%, then 20%, and so on.
Like, I’m probably never going to be a strict vegetarian. I love a good burger, or a nicely-cooked steak, or a big bowl of chicken and dumplings. But I eat vegetarian for more than 75% of my meals. And that’s good enough for me.
It was also the implied “Poor people shouldn’t have nice things” That ticked me off.
Aren’t most people on a fixed income?
No, most people are on broken incomes.
Not to leave out they’re easy to return stuff too.
Indeed.
Holy shit guys! S-so, if you have a monopoly, it’s like, you can do whatever the fuck you want? So it’s like in THE FUCKING GAME OF MONOPOLY? Jee, we are learning something new every day
In the game, you have to improve your properties to charge more rent. In reality, the monopoly can reduce quality and raise price at the same time.
You dont really improve it, just added more units. Its about volume, not quality.
Which is also a pretty good tactic in Monopoly: try to buy as many houses as possible, but do not upgrade to hotels - exhaust the housing market- that way the other players cannot upgrade either
Wait, is Jee how the kids spell it these days?
Considering the origin is “Jesus”, “Jee” is technically closer spelling than “Gee”. Not that I have a dog in this race.
The intermediate step is “Jeez.”
The post-step is “Geezie willikers!” :)
Was going to add “Gee Whiz” which comes before that one? Like it got shorter, then it got longer again?
Thanks bro, gee is what I was going for, kisses from Eastern Europe, or, as we call it, Gesus land
Market regulates itself or somthing.
Yeah, that’s what the Health Care CEOs assassin was doing, just a minor self-correction in the Free Market. That CEO’s policies pissed off a customer bad enough that the customer eliminated the problem, and that company, and every other health care company, loosened up their denials significantly as a result.
That’s the Free Market working the way it’s supposed to. That assassin should be celebrated for working within the system to balance the market.
It wasn’t Luigi though.
I heard there was an invisible hand that I should trust.
The only time that I use Amazon now is when I cannot get the item that I need either in the city that I live in first or another online retailer. My Amazon spending as decreased significantly since I left prime in January of 2025.
A sensible approach.
Can openers is what did it for me.
In 2015 I needed a new manual can opener. The local big-box stores had two basic styles. A cheap, all metal one that was just stamped from a single sheet, and a more expensive one with better handles.
The more expensive one had previously rusted and began to look nasty within a few years.
Amazon had a bunch of different styles at less than the price point of the more expensive one.I bought one. It was fine. I didn’t love the operation. It cut the whole top off from the side, rather than from the top in a downwards cut. The sharp edges were on the can rather than on the lid. It would catch the paper labels and sometimes wad them up into the can while you cut. Cans with no air space would leak when opened.
Anyway. Replaced it in 2019. Amazon still had a broad selection, but all except for obvious crap was as expensive as the local big box store’s expensive option. Wound up going to a smaller local(ish) bulk foods store and bought a cheapo restaurant one for less than Amazon’s/the big box store’s similar offerings. Minimal rusting to date.
I would read your review of various day to day items.
I had experiences like this one a lot. Most of the time what you get in Amazon cheap ist trash. All the good stuff isn’t much cheaper most of the time, 35€ instead of 40€ sounds legit. For me at least (worker, 2 Kids, most def. not rich) this ist not enough to buy from the devil thats kills all thats is good
I bought one. It was fine. I didn’t love the operation. It cut the whole top off from the side, rather than from the top in a downwards cut. The sharp edges were on the can rather than on the lid. It would catch the paper labels and sometimes wad them up into the can while you cut. Cans with no air space would leak when opened.
That sounds like a really shitty one, actually. The can openers that operate on the side of the can should uncrimp the top, not actually cut into the can.
Very probable. I was also not the most economically secure back then. I was trying to save money on a $20 can opener!
Meanwhile in Canada, if something falls into a niche good luck finding it in person. It’s getting beyond frustrating trying to buy in person to avoid Amazon, then finding out that nowhere carries it and having to order from Amazon anyway.
That’s what we get when Canada is a handful of monopolies in a trenchcoat instead of a country.
I’d assume because in general we have smaller cities. I used to be big into RC stuff (remote control boat and car) and there were hobby shops around. All gone, or converted into old people hobby supplies only (macramé, bead work, hook rugs, etc)
I got all my shit on Hobbyking and aliexpress.
I also get my dental floss, electric toothbrush heads, and underwear on aliexpress. So it works both ways, the local retailers aren’t getting my money.
