“We never USED to have to see gay people grumble grumble.”
Yeah because they were oppressed and underground! What the fuck, how simple can this get?
“I noticed that those other people exist and and are living their lives, so you must stop shoving them DoWn OuR ThRoAtS!!”
But these people think a good show is Last Man Standing where he dumps political commentary every episode and endlessly rips on his illegitimate grandson’s dad for not being manly, anti-Obama rhetoric, pro-military progun…
“We never USED to have to see gay people grumble grumble.”
You saw them, they just had to hide it in fear of threats, ridicule and abuse
'I didn’t mind the gays when they kept ‘em all in California…’
“I don’t mind gays so long as they don’t shove it down our throats all the time”
Says the guy who exclusively wears UA Freedom shirts and their personally revolves around maga hats/flags, thinblueline punisher skulls, and wE tHe PeOpLe
Gay people: Exist and their relationships are depicted in media alongside straight ones, with the same emphasis
Dumb Motherfuckers: WHY ARE YOU MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF PEOPLE BEING GAY? STOP SHOVING IT DOWN OUR THROATS!
It’s like that thing where if a meeting has women talking for 20% of the time some men freak out about how it’s all women all the time.
They’re emotionally keyed up so it feels like a bigger deal, and they’re emotionally keyed up so they’re not going to rationally assess this. That’d assuming they’re acting in good faith to begin with, which is not a given.
I can’t tell you how tired I am of the privileged whining about how the onset of equality is discriminating against them.
They think they’re losing rights and freedoms when in reality they don’t have as many more rights as disenfranchised groups than they used to. It’s not a pie chart.
I was watching an anime this season that unexpectedly to me turned out to have a large gay subplot.All of the characters turned out to be gay men and they’re all infatuated with the main character.
I was surprised that I found that entire subplot and its associated scenes so incredibly tedious. It made me wonder whether gay people feel the same way watching straight romances.
I find almost all depictions of romance in fiction to be tedious, if not cringe. For me it’s less about the gender or number of participants and more about writers not knowing how to depict an authentic, realistic romance.
That being said, Academy’s depiction of Lura and Jett’s relationship is just right to me. I was skeptical about the show because all I hear from both sides of the political aisle is how bad it is, but it’s surprisingly good.
I wish someone would shove some gay down my throat.
It’s the free drugs argument all over again, the right wing promising us good times that never actually happen in real life
I can’t believe the people complaining about this. Have these people never met a gay soldier before?
They have, even if they think they haven’t.
The thing that gets me is that so many people are talking about a fucking KISS ON THE CHEEK.
But they aren’t talking about the fact that this Klingon guy is so different from other Klingons that he didnt want to participate in a hunt and shoot a bird??!
There are many things to complain about, but this gay relationship isn’t one of them 👏
These people aren’t watching the show, they’re just being outraged by the item of the day.
A GAY KLINGON? THATS OUTRAGEOUS!
{What’s a Klingon?}
You’re probably right! Anybody who’s watched it can tell the ratings dropped because it was a slow, relatively uninteresting episode. Not because of a few seconds of a non-straight relationship. 👏
Wait, you’re telling me these SciFi Spartan analogs are GAY?!
When will the Woke end? Next you’re going to tell me the Trill are gender fluid!
Does someone have an issue with Jay’Den? I think he’s a great klingon. And who says he’s gay? He might be bi/poly like his dads.
Also his sexuality isn’t any more in your face than caleb and tarima and all their smooching.
People will seriously complain about anything won’t they?
Didn’t you know? Everyone is straight, until they’re proven gay. And only women are allowed to be bi. /s
I have an issue with him being named Jayden.
See, that is a fair critique. Maybe the house of kraag was watching some human millennial shows?
I really couldn’t care less about the whole gay aspect.
However, in my personal head-canon Jay-Den’s sensitivity and fear of public speaking doesn’t quite line up with how I imagine the mind and emotions of a full-blood Klingon would work. I feel like every Klingon would have the instincts and emotions of a predator/hunter and I haven’t quite seen that in Jay-Den. To me the character would make more sense if he was only part Klingon, like Alexander.
Then again, who’s to say to what extent stereotypical Klingon behaviour is defined culturally as opposed to genetically? I do think it’s interesting and refreshing to see a Klingon acting contrary to cultural norms and I do like the character. The only other Klingon character I can recall who wasn’t a full-blown warrior is that one scientist in TNG.
Everyone thinks all Orions are pirates but as Tendi said, “somebody had to build all the starships.”
I’m more inclined to like a Klingon who’s just got a different personality than someone like Worf who never shut the hell up about Klingon tradition since he was always trying to prove he was a warrior.
I’m more inclined to like a Klingon who’s just got a different personality than someone like Worf who never shut the hell up about Klingon tradition since he was always trying to prove he was a warrior.
We already had this in the “exchange program” ep of TNG, when Riker goes on the Klingon ship they aren’t acting like Worf, especially the “Klingons do not laugh” bullshit.
It’s because Worf has a chip on his shoulder because of his human upbringing and his father not dying a warrior’s death
Guinan even specifically calls him out on that. “I’ve seen plenty of klingons laugh.” Feels like the only thing they do when the drink bloodwine is laugh and punch each other.
I have a feeling that Worf never shut up because he was raised by humans, so he always felt like he had to prove himself as Klingon
but as Tendi said, “somebody had to build all the starships.”
Relevant comic:
Who exactly fixes the disruptor cannons or shields? Only Klingon chief I’ve seen is this one
I feel like every Klingon would have the instincts and emotions of a predator/hunter and I haven’t quite seen that in Jay-Den.
There was that one doctor klingon in Enterprise and also a lawyer klingon in a different episode of Enterprise. Not all klingons are hunters/predators. Some find honor in helping people.
As for Alexander I think he was so timid for a klingon because of his upbringing, not from his 1/4 human part.
Plus Worf’s ancestor the public defender in Undiscovered Country.
If the existence of a gay klingon is the worst day of your life, I can’t even begin to explain how good you must have it.
It’s a super masculine race of warriors that has two of every organ, including that one, I mean …
Nobody saw that coming from the delta quadrant away?
Did we ever see Gowron kiss a girl or talk about his wife? No? Gay. It just wasn’t a big deal, so they didn’t mention it.
He was seeking glory(holes)
So he could put a (susie)dent in them, for honor!
An obscure Cats Does Countdown reference in a Star Trek community and somehow people are getting it.
So that venn diagram has a larger cross over section than I’d have thought.
I mean, it’s referencing what many consider the joke of the entire series —though, an argument could be made for the “challenging wank”, or “and, come bin day”, IMHO. 😝
I love how it was just one of Jimmy’s regular type of throwaway lines as well. He wasn’t intending it to hit like that, but it being juxtaposed with Susie blew it up
Honestly, I think the real gold in that moment was Susie’s realization that she had no idea what that word meant. You can see it on her face: puzzlement and a pinch of wonder, but no shock at what he’d just had millions of people around the world envisioning. 😬🤣
A warrior’s sexuality!
Didn’t Seth Mcfarlane make two gay Klingons based on lore?
Moclans. And without spoiling one of the best setting development arcs I have ever seen in sci-fi, it went very quickly from being a gay joke to being an absolutely gripping drama.
the moclans, were genderless/hermaphroditic race. they were traditionally MALE(according to thier society) and could lay eggs which produce male/female offspring. orville took elements from the cogenitor epsiode of enterprise, and the genderless race in tng.
Ugh
Low hanging fruit at best from lazy writers who heard the word “Klingons” and “progressive” so went with this
Seriously, had I seen a gay Klingon on TNG I would have completely gone with it because TNG had (mostly) great writers that would make some awesome episode about it that would make you think and talk about it for days.
But this being nu trek, I suppose the guy will remind everyone 5 times each episode that he’s gay. He’s a Klingon but they’ll make him effeminate, even though female Klingons not once not ever were like that. They’ll make him use all sort of modern sassy expressions or something and all the open moral and ethical questions that TNG would do will be completely 100 % if ores because why make an intelligent show if you can just virtue signal and call it a day?
Modern trek sucks sooooo bad, and yes, I’m so happy I stopped watching as it was making me depressed. Star trek, of all things, was making a progressive person depressed. Fuck nu trek.
Seriously, had I seen a gay Klingon on TNG I would have completely gone with it because TNG had (mostly) great writers that would make some awesome episode about it that would make you think and talk about it for days.
Thank goodness, nothing like that. There’s nothing to think or talk about, other than to shout down bigots. His relationship is built up in the background of unrelated episodes, given no more focus or fanfare than any other character’s relationship. No one so much as says “huh, a gay Klingon”. It’s a non-issue. He’s just matter-of-factly gay. In other words, they handled it perfectly.
I mean, the fact that Klingons being different may have to do with losing their world and 800 years of evolving? But sure, I’m sure he’s the only one that didn’t act like a berserker lusting for violence (Even though Worf and Alexander were other examples of culturally different Klingons). My only hangup with Klingons is the constant shift in appearances. Species don’t change drastically 3 times in one century usually. To trigger so many mutations Qonos must be constantly shifting in climate.
It’s also the first time I remember seeing a Klingon medical researcher but I don’t see anyone getting bent out of shape about his unusual, you might say progressive, career path for some reason
Recently I’ve been considering learning about Warhammer 40k. I think the deep lore is cool and space marines are a neat concept. But apparently there’s this big issue about whether or not women can serve as space marines.
So I briefly looked into it and whether or not the issue is sexism based or lore based, and it seems to be somewhere in the middle, but definitely meta perpetuated by casual sexism. It feels very much like this comic.
Also feels like seeing an interesting box, looking in excitedly, realizing what’s inside and having my enthusiasm sucked out of the airlock, and just… Letting the box lid close and then walk away.
Very, very, iirc, but likely one of the reasons women in 40k aren’t space marines is that they are genetically enhanced, as well as have multiple organs implanted. I would assume the whole gene splicing piece is probably the hangup.
Again iirc, they are pseudoclones of their primarchs who are pseudoclones of the big E.
I would assume a trans woman could be a space marine then? They probably would never know they were trans though, the life of males that eventually become space marines aren’t exactly ones with enough space for that kinda introspection just a constant struggle to survive in some of the most hellish places in the Imperium.
There are also the Adapteus Sororitas, plenty of women in the Imperial Guard, and honestly brutally bad ass women all over the 40k universe.
As just a casual observer, I’ve always understood that the space marines’ gender is space marine.
What about the gene splicing is inherently for “male” only? Because we’re getting into that sexist ignorance territory pretty immediately.
If you say "there has to be a Y chromosome, that is, outrageously silly and makes very little sense. But even if so, there are plenty of men who don’t have a Y chromosome and plenty of women who don’t.
If you say they become a clone of the emperor’s clones, it’s pretty easy to have a cross sex clone. It’s kind of how real life offspring take on genes from their parents and all kinds of outcomes occur, and offspring are still very much basically clones with minor mutations of their parents, with variations. Like if you said they were EXACT clones, like in Star wars, then sure. But they really aren’t, to my limited knowledge.
This just really feels like there not being enough representation in the same way in the 80s how “he” was the default pronoun for a subject. But a lot of people are like NUH UHH THAT MEANS THERE WERE ONLY WHITE MEN AND NO FEMALE AUTHORITY FIGURES which is insane. Like, imagine believing skin color in the vast universe meant anything. Or like throughout the countless planets and solar systems that only XY men of scandanavian descent that lived in similar UV and dietary and other stressor ecosystems were the strongest. Like, if anything, it would be people who settled and evolved in the harshest, and most competitive environments and ecosystems, not warm weather tall people who recently migrated to become pale and unhealthy but then became well fed.
It’s far more likely that to become a Space Marine, it’s not limited to any specific demographic, and it’s the best that whatever planet puts forth. And likely it’s like some other variation of brown skin, post-human evolution, a la every earth-human demographic breeding together and then 40,000 years later looking nothing like us.
Also, the battle sisters are about as token as an all black army. It’s fucked up.
It’s honestly likely similar to the custodes and just… Burly massive people who probably don’t even have any sort of genitals anymore because that doesn’t matter. Like imagine 40,000 years of breeding humans with og-batman bane levels of steroids. Like it just doesn’t matter anymore at that point.
I’d consider myself a “casual fan” of 40k, and I think there’s two important things to consider:
-
As with most “outsider hobbies” being brought into the mainstream and examined with a broader lens, there’s always going to be pushback from various chud subgroups that feel like they’re the only ones who “earned it.” Fuck those people. Continuing to amplify their voices helps them push people away, which is bad for the hobby, bad for the community, and bad for the people they want to push down and away. Goofing around and coming up with your own silly little stories that trample over canon is half the fun. Fuck anyone who says otherwise, and double-fuck anybody who is willing to selectively apply canon only to reinforce their prejudices.
-
I think it’s fair to say that space marines being explicitly cis-males is a natural narrative conclusion based on the context. A continuing narrative element in 40K is that everybody is awful. Just the worst. Like, beyond terrible. Anybody who unironically thinks they’re identifying with “the good guys” is missing the criticism that’s pointed right at them. The Imperium of man is a very heavy-handed caricature of the failings of european history. The Crusades, Nazi Germany, Organized Christianity (Particularly Catholics), hell imperialism is literally right there in the name. The God-Emperor of Mankind is a hypermasculine narcissist born in the middle east and destined to rule over all mankind. He hand-crafted 20 big, burly dude-bros to be his children (because that other guy only had 12 eyeroll). These primarchs then are the progenitors for their million man-children to explore the galaxy, and committing themselves to their greco-roman warrior ethos of committing genocide and naked oil wrestling. Is it really that hard to believe that sky-daddy space-hitler wouldn’t have enough misogyny in him to code out a “no girls allowed” sign into his magic cummies to make sure that no ladies can interrupt the volleyball montages?
The usual gotcha question chuds like to ask in response to female space marines is “So you think the sororitas should have dudes?” I posit that the correct question is "you think there should be more women in the Village People?
-
Hell yeah.
-
(Awaiting…)
i had such big feels that i stopped for dinner in the middle, lol.
-
-
Serious question. Would Klingon culture see this as a weakness? They would be unable to reproduce but it’s that dishonorable?
The honor system is pretty subjective, I believe Worf was in a catch22 where not joining the Klingons to fight the federation was considered dishonourable but betraying the federation was also dishonourable.
For this situation i would say that creating offspring would be considered honourable but lying to your partner and yourself about your true feelings of love would be very dishonourable.
Also in many context just because you did not do an honorable thing yourself, that does not automatically dishonour you.
Disclaimer: yeah Klingons are fictional and can be whatever we want them to be. And I celebrate and have no issue with Star Trek’s continual inclusion of queer characters.
But would it really be so bad if Klingons did not have the same moral and cultural values that humanity does? I think it would make a far more interesting show. It’s easy to preach tolerance and acceptance when everyone is culturally more or less the same, but it’s a much deeper moral dilemma when there are fundamental differences in the way they view the universe.
And would be much more analogous to cross-cultural differences on Earth today.
I think we’ve seen too much of Klingons being reasonable enough people when it comes to social issues that I don’t think that’s a path we should explore if only because there are other means of doing it.
Orville does it a lot like older Trek, which is to say, beats you over the head with a concept you may be experiencing in day to day life and shows the real world consequences of opinions around it. They have a storyline about a Klingon-like race that is strictly male (they sex change the babies if they’re not male), the ‘right’ opinion is very clear by how the main protagonists react, but they can’t just overrule another culture or people
In this way, they assert that the learned/educated belief is to let people be who they are, and restricting that only causes pain and trauma and the rift it tears in families can be massive. They flipped the issue on it’s head. “Forced sex changes” is the big fear Republicans in the US have been touting this last few decades, so now the uber-masculine species is forced to be all male and any disagreement is systematically squashed and discouraged. But it’s so painfully clear the Moclans are in wrong, and the tension of the show comes down to how systems oppress others and the limited options for outside entities to intervene.
Essentially my point is that people WANT a utopian show where the good guys are really doing good things and the universe is mostly on it’s way away from the troubles we experience in society today. Orville and Old Trek both asserted that some things have already been handled in Earth’s history, like capitalism and gender/sex discrimination, and that people who disagree are anachronistic and often farther behind in other technologies. Call the dumb people dumb on my fantasy show, and do it in a way that let’s the audience experience the issue without making it an opinion that holds ANY mainstream appeal outside of clearly-wrong fringe groups.
If it’s not a problem for Kirk to kiss Uhura then why should homosexuality be an actual contention point in Star Trek in 2026? Just give us another allegory for it and we’ll pick it up and move on
One of my favourite bits of TOS is when Space Abraham Lincoln calls her a Negress, then apologises for being racist, but Uhura genuinely doesn’t know what the fuck racism is.
Unlike Sisko, she’s never studied history, so she doesn’t even know Earth used to have that sort of bigotry. That’s the sort of culture I aspire to be part of one day. One where racism is so dead that nobody knows what it is.
For being gay? No absolutely not. Their culture does not give a shit about gender or sexuality.
For being sensitive and afraid of public speaking? Pitiful coward! He brings dishonor to his house!
In DS9, Martok respected Nog for standing up to him even though Martok could kill him with 2 fingers.
Martok: “Courage comes in all sizes”
Klingons should be like ancient earth warriors.
Totally gay
The Romans only considered it gay if you were a bottom. Romane eunt domus
People called “Romanes” they go the house!?!
It says “Romans go home”
HOW MANY ROMANS?!
That’s why they fucked little boys.
True. Fucking kids = totally hetero and normal then.
Please don’t quote me
