Same as “don’t ask if you can ask a question, just ask directly”
I had never articulated this before, but this is good.
It’s a very common issue among programming/tech help communities.
Similarly, the XY problem: https://xyproblem.info/
The worst part of the XY problem is that it destroys searchability. If drag googles X and finds a thread where the gurus are answering Y, that’s great for the noob who asked the wrong question, and bad for everyone else. That noob didn’t need X, but someone else will probably need X sooner or later, and now the search results for X are full of Y.
Worse, if someone who needs X asks for X on stackoverflow, it could be closed as a duplicate, despite the fact that all the answers in the original thread are Y. Now it’s impossible to answer X.
I don’t think you quite understood the xy problem. A better way to explain the core concept is “don’t ask how to do your erroneous solution, ask how to solve your problem”, the corollary to this is “don’t just ask how to do something, explain why are you trying to do it or what you’re trying to accomplish with it”. This helps people to contextualize their answers when trying to help you. Remember that the problem is that the person is not asking for X because they don’t understand their problem in the first place. You’re right about stack overflow though, very useful info sometimes but incredibly toxic place most of the time.
To some degree it’s unavoidable that the answer is you receive are not the answers you want. Most of the time The listener is making some assumptions about what you know or about what you could do or want to do, and those are definitely not going to be entirely accurate. Of course the listener knows that, but if they follow what you wrote too closely, they could be ignoring the obvious solution that you just didn’t think about because you were focused on something else.
My work did a digital communication class that talked about how you should never start a chat with a question but rather start with "Hello’. It’s infuriating
I mean, as long as you follow it up with whatever you want
Not until the other person responses. Which is insane.
Next communication rule: Start every question with “May I ask a question?” before asking the relevant question after the acknowledgment.
Or in verbal discussions, never think before you speak and to avoid anyone else speaking make a humming noise with slightly opened mouth emitting an “Uhhhmmmmmm” while you think.
There’s one guy at work who calls unprompted. If I don’t answer, he messages me asking to call him back.
I don’t call him back anymore. I can’t know if it’s going to be a 5-minute call or a 45-minute call so I assume the latter and I don’t have time for that
You can choose to answer the call or not, and the person calling should be okay with that. If they want you to call back they should tell what it’s about.
But getting mad at people for not asking to call as a blanket response is madness. (I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, BTW.) Sometimes you can solve things with synchronous communication much faster than you could messaging.
I think straight calling someone on a chat program is rude because it unnecessarily breaks flow. I have to connect my Bluetooth headphones so I can hear you from the start, but that takes a couple seconds. If I’m not quick you’ll stop calling before I’m ready, and it happens frighteningly often that people don’t answer when calling back immediately, so you’ll break my flow a second time.
Usually, 15-30 seconds are enough for me to mentally “put away” whatever I’m working on, which allows me to quickly resume once we’re done. Often I write a comment describing what my last thoughts were. That can sometimes save a good 5 minutes or more.
At worst I’ll say “give me 5 minutes” or “if not important, does 14:30 work?”, but that’s because I’m deep in thought and it will take a long time to get back to where I am.
Just don’t pick up, finish your thoughts and call back. You are absolutely under no obligation to drop everything to pick it up immediately.
As I said, this regularly leads to breaking focus again a couple of minutes later.
Just don’t pick up
Consider this a way to train others – calling gets nothing if you’re not in my group or chain of command. Send an email or, if urgent, send a chat message.
You can choose to answer the call or not
… and either way, my concentration is broken for (what researchers keep saying is) 30+ minutes.
Nah. I’m not in the mood to speak to THAT asshole after he wrecked my morning.
In the middle of a text chat, you say “call me and share your screen” and then we ‘go voice’. Calling without warning, now, and without justification (visible flames or blood, timely health risks, massive outages), is like dropping by your cousin’s house out of the blue for a week.
I didn’t say I get mad that he calls without asking. My comment was about the “please call me back” - that message could have been the question. It’s the same as “hi”
I agree very much, major pet peeves in a busy day
I’m a member of a Discord server that’s primarily used for support, and this happens way too often. I’ve taken to just reacting with a wave emoji and waiting for them to actually ask for help. Most of the time they’ll just leave some time later, without ever asking a question.
In that case, as has been the case in other large discord servers I’ve been a part of, those are actually bots
This was my teams status for a couple years at my old job. I’ll probably end up doing the same at my new job once I’m here long enough for it not to come off as an “overly aggressive new guy” move.
This is how I learned about this site and one of my team has it as his status after I told him about it. Which is kinda annoying as it’s always there in group chats. I have taken to just ignore hi and wait till I get an actual question
Hi…
Hey there…
Hello…
So, ya have a movie for me?
I love when a website on mobile has some animated component that keeps making the text move around while I’m trying to read the damn thing.
Is this website assuming you take 5 minutes to type 7 words and that typing “hi” takes the same time?
It’s a common Indian thing to type a greeting, then wait for a response before actually getting to the point. It drives a lot of people crazy, because now we have to respond back and prompt them to tell us what they need and wait for a response, which is frequently a while later, causing a lot of interruption to what might otherwise be productive working time.
It turns a “can you send me this info” 5 minute task into a multiple interruption pain in the ass
then wait for a response
That’s offensive. ‘Hello’ means “I’m typing a quick wall of text, and please just wait like 1 minute because it could be a time-sensitive thing”
Just append the hello to the beggining of the wall of text.
and if the conversation is already ongoing, just say that you are writing a wall of text, or write it all out without care, instant communication is a new thing but writing letters or quick mail inquiries are not. communication skills are so weird for some people.
You’re never just on chat. You’re always doing something else. The constant distraction and context switching is mentally expensive.
Do people type “hi” and then go do something else instead of typing the question?
Yes, that’s exactly what happens and what the page is about. People often type hi, and if they don’t an answer right away, they get distracted with something else. Then I reply hi back, and the same happens again on my side. Maybe the delay is just the 30s each time, maybe is 2 mimutes. Sometimes this cycle repeats again because they ask how I’m doing! And each time I need to interrupt what I’m doing and state at the screen waiting. Instead of just quickly reading and immediately replying. There’s literally no advantage to separate pleasantries in chat.
People wait for a response after saying “hi”?
Why?
That question is the whole point of the website. Are you paying attention?..
The website says to not do it, not why people do it
I’m sure there’s many reasons. I’ve no fucking clue. I just want them to stop.
A lot of timid people want to see if the other person would even commit to a conversation. If you are the first one to start a conversation, and I see you do not fully commit with a half limp “hi” or “can you help” with no context or anything to tell me, then I will simply ignore it.
Does anyone mind if I ask what this is in reference to
Work communication etiquette
I was delighted to see the “don’t be mad at the person who sent you here” link at the bottom was sent to a different and appropriate video in the Spanish version of the site. That’s great localization work.
Edit: it appears only Spanish and Swedish have unique videos
Hello.
I am now mad at you. /s
Well by including the hi they have to provide a response rather than put it on hold for a few hours.
Isn’t this very context dependent?
For a small question it makes the most sense to just ask but often in work question can be much more complex. And the pre question or hello is pretty much: “Do you have a few minutes of time to read about and discuss this issue”
I have a colleague who just drops a wall of text on me. With varying levels of work-related/importancy and i find it very annoying depending on what i am doing.
Also if i contact someone who i know is very busy id like to know if they have time available to chat or call about x.
I am neurodivergent though, i am used to bigger chats because i hate calling and phone calls without heads up really bother me. It seems so pretentious to just on a whim go “STOP WHAT YOUR DOING AND HEAR ME”
It’s fine if your actually mention what you want to talk about
But just “hi” is terrible
If you need a few minutes or a one on one then that is the question and it’s perfectly fine to ask for it. “Hey, I need help with X, can you assist me? when would it be a good time to call each other for a couple of minutes or have a long real time chat?” There, now the person has the power to say no, thus it is not imposing on their time anymore and you have used the strength of text chat to it’s full extend.
Hello does not imply any of that, quite the opposite, hello incites anxiety and ambiguity on most people precisely because you don’t know if this will be a short fired one off question, a friendly salutation, or a long technical problem solving convo.
For what is worth, I’m neurotypical and absolutely hate massive group chats. Can’t tolerate stream chats, despise discord with a passion, avoid slack and team’s group chat like the plague. Most of my coworkers think the same, we call all of those the productivity theater. They exist to massage management egos into thinking they are providing value to a team by performing public assistance scenes to project a productivity that is not actually happening. Actual productivity occurs when fulfilling solo task or very tight group tasks of two or three people max. But management likes to see the monkeys dance.
