• einlander@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    We will end up with a general population that knows their immigration/civil liberties laws and rights, and how to exercise them.

    It’s going to be real interesting.

    • GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works
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      20 days ago

      I still think about this scene a lot because I’ve been there sheen relatively normal people casually talked about going to cities and shooting "democrats“ while also talking about the guns they were currently buying. I should have turned them in.

        • GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works
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          20 days ago

          I have too many family members who are Leo, plus other reasons why they shouldn’t do that. Plus it would be homeland security or FBI for various other reasons. But it could be ICE because I know a lot of immigrants. It would be a clusterfuck.

    • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      I wonder if the director told that actor “have, just, the worst trigger discipline. Make it look like you have no business handling a firearm.”

      • duhbasser@lemm.ee
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        20 days ago

        In the movie this is right after he executes 2 Chinese journalist, so lack of trigger discipline kinda makes sense. Oh and he’s about to try to execute a bunch more people in the up coming moments

        • miraclerandy@lemmy.world
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          20 days ago

          Agreed. Dude was unhinged and didn’t give a fuck about any of that in this scene. Which obviously made it more tense

          • duhbasser@lemm.ee
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            20 days ago

            I’m not sure how well received this movie is but I really enjoyed it. The movie did a good job at not really identifying this characters “military affiliation” as well as the first group of militia they ran into. To my knowledge, nothing really identified these two groups as being affiliated with the government or resistance, so the tendency to just kill everyone you don’t know is probably how most things would get handled in the fallout/duration of a civil war.

  • Panamalt@sh.itjust.works
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    21 days ago

    This is America, the most well armed nation in the world, push us far enough and that manilla folder gonna be full of holes.

      • Panamalt@sh.itjust.works
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        21 days ago

        Go corner a wild animal and see what happens.

        For those that have only lived comfortable and safe lives, the line where they bite back is far away, and for others that know pain or oppression, the line is a lot closer. But the line always exists, and with the way everything is going right now, we are all diving face-first over that line sooner or later.

      • metallic_substance@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        There will come a breaking point though. I hope to never see it, but there is a line that can be crossed that will move people to action. I’ll admit, it might be further than it should be, but it’s there. Americans may be complacent, but people are people

  • NoMadLadNZ@lemmy.nz
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    21 days ago

    This is how the brownshirts operated. Just thugs, power trippin’, and attracting the absolute worst people who WANT to wear balaclavas and have the excuse to be intimidating assholes and have the power to bundle people into vans (or railcars).

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          20 days ago

          They were like football fans with knives, and their communist opponents kinda similar. So in part yes.

          In part there was that nuance, that they were the approved kind of hooligans with knives, and their communist opponents those the government feared more. But neither wore balaklavas, and mostly they were on equal grounds, just Nazis were able to attract more support eventually.

          In a poor depressed morally shaken environment communist ideas morph into Nazi ideas very quickly. Look not even at these people, but at (sincere, not official spoilers) communist groups in Russia, even the official CPRF has almost gone Nazi.

  • _core@sh.itjust.works
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    21 days ago

    What are the odds it was a couple magats pretending to be ICE to fuck with immigrants or people the think are immigrants.

    • Yardy Sardley@lemmy.ca
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      21 days ago

      Odds are pretty damn good, I’d say.

      Still, it’s a distinction barely worth making. Garden varity pigs doing this shit are equally as unjust as brand name Pigs doing it.

    • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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      21 days ago

      Depressingly high.

      But also…depressingly low. The fact that they couldve been actual govt officials behaving this way is…worse?

  • i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca
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    21 days ago

    From the set up, I’d have expected the agents to have unleashed whatever was in that manila folder. You’d think it was important if it was one of the only things they brought in.

    Now I’m thinking it was less ICE agents carrying a warrant and more “militia leader bought a pack of folders at Staples” and told his racist minions a folder will get you through doors like wearing hi-vis or a ladder will.

  • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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    21 days ago

    At some point, someone is going to fire the first shot. Then it’s open season on ICE agents. And you know what? I’m okay with that.

    • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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      21 days ago

      I do wonder how all the “violence is never the answer” folks will go if it comes to that. I think a lot of them would side with ICE, sadly.

      Personally, I won’t be upset if a would-be nazi meets an abrupt end to their career.

      • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        “Violence is never the answer” types are just controlled opposition. Any and every peaceful protest that doesn’t have the risk of escalating to violence can and is just ignored. Did those anti war protests against Bush II’s wars ever amount to anything?

        • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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          21 days ago

          I’m inclined to agree. Unfortunately, a lot of moderators on lemmy and other sites have a very strong “no calls for violence” stance.

          • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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            20 days ago

            Let me be clear to any moderators here: I am not telling people to get an ICE agent pelt. I am simply predicting it will happen and choosing not to be upset about it.

              • bampop@lemmy.world
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                21 days ago

                If you’re inciting violent civil insurgency, you’re a criminal in the present. If successful, you may be accepted, even celebrated, retrospectively. It’s not a question of right or wrong, but of who is currently in power.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          I hope to see a time when it’s commonly accepted that Starship Troopers is not a fascist book, just a smart one.

          The movie does, of course, accuse it of being fascist while pretending it’s satire.

          Anyway, in history the conflict seemed like “military with the fascists or under fascists, and often helping fascists”, but in a lot of modern situations it seems that militaries are the component fascists fear most and try to neuter or spend in useless wars or corrupt. Every period of history is different. So maybe Starship Troopers being militarist is not a fascist trait too.

        • Mikelle@lemmy.wtf
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          21 days ago

          Ooops. Sounds like you accidentally picked up a Texas MAGA “history” book? Or maybe one covering the 18th century or before?

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        how all the “violence is never the answer”

        Which is implicit support for covert, hidden violence. The stronger side, the government, the mafia have an advantage in that. The people have an advantage in open violence between the resistance and them.

        It just appears that a lot of people are like “I won’t support violence until it’s bad enough”, well, how those dorks would know it’s bad enough if when violence is unacceptable nobody can resist or raise their voice and it all remains silent until too late? You don’t know when it’s bad enough. You can live your whole remaining life thinking it’s still fine, because all the worthy people have been killed\imprisoned silently.

        A citizen doesn’t owe a state any reservation in citizen’s demands. A citizen not having that doesn’t hurt the society, quite the opposite. So if you feel that the situation demands reservation from you, for some supposedly good reasons, then it means it’s very bad. All conflicts in life are too hard and require all your effort and you still often lose, so being reserved for some supposed moral rule without good explanation is not an answer, it’s a scam, a Troyan horse, it means your are being deceived to give up without a fight. Probably that you already have.

      • Dogiedog64@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        You’re absolutely right with thinking they’ll stick with ICE. People who value Status Quo over all else (“it hurts my head thinking about the world changing, why can’t everything just stay the same???”) always have and always will capitulate to Fascist regimes, because it removes the need for critical thought and the obligation to stand for anything. Moderates will be the death of us if we let them.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          It’s not a new thought. There’s the grey hypocritical mass that obeys, which is the main body behind any fascist regime.

          BTW, von Stauffenberg was pretty extreme right, yet he tried to assassinate Hitler, it’s not known of any moderates trying to do that.

    • Lenny@lemmy.zip
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      21 days ago

      📞🧊

      😱🇲🇽👉🏚️

      🚨🚔🚨

      👮🏻‍♂️🏃🏼🏚️

      🏚️💣💥

      💦🪦

  • CocaineShrimp@lemm.ee
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    21 days ago

    I don’t think legitimate ICE agents would have backed down. Sounds like an attempted kidnapping…

    • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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      21 days ago

      They more than likely were with ICE. The agency has massively and rapidly expanded its enforcement personnel, and has done so in a haphazard way that has (deliberately) not given them an opportunity to properly train personnel up on procedures and rules and stuff. Nobody who wants to do good in the world is going to work for ICE right now. So, they’ve basically just done a presto gestapo, and a lot of times these guys really are just out there doing the sloppiest, shittiest, and most bully-like law enforcement you could possibly conceive of. I know where I’m posting this, I know what we all generally think of cops here, the current state of ice is about ten rungs down from that. We’re talking real amateur hour shit, and they’ll get away with it if people let them.

      The good news is that apparently none of these fucking jokers seem to know or care how to cross t’s and dot i’s. You absolutely can send them packing, just like these folks did, and if they don’t leave, then call your local sheriff’s office or police dept. This is really dependent on your area, metro PD tend to be stocked full of major league assholes, but my local PD is actually pretty chill and has a good working relationship with the community; in my experience, sheriff’s deputies tend to be people who got into law enforcement because they’re true believers in the ideals of law enforcement (protecting life and property, accountability, etc) and constitutional justice, not because they want to flex on minorities. YMMV.

      But if you think you can trust one of your local law enforcement agencies, absolutely call up 911 and tell them that you’ve got some people here that are trespassing (they’ve been told to leave and aren’t), seem to be impersonating law enforcement (since they won’t provide proof of ID), and you’re worried that they’re trying to kidnap someone, that you think these people are an imminent threat to your life or someone else’s. That’ll generally get the cops out there in a hurry, and they will likely be not very happy at all that ICE is out here putting on a fucking circus. That, or the agents will hear you and fucking split so that they don’t get clowned on by local law enforcement. There have been plenty of instances of federal agents getting arrested while fucking around; mind you, they’re almost never charged, but nobody walks away from that particularly happy.

        • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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          21 days ago

          Sound advice. I know that after a bunch of locals voiced concern about it, our chief said that they are absolutely not working with ICE, and their duty is to serving the whole community first and foremost.

      • PolarKraken@sh.itjust.works
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        21 days ago

        Great advice. And anyone in authority at a place of employment that might be targeted should know exactly how they intend to respond, meaning they must plan for it. As soon as the thugs make themselves known, execute the plan - get one person on 911 doing what you said, while another confronts them directly to try to force them to leave.

        I wonder if there are any resources giving concrete advice on what to do in these scenarios? Kind of like how we have great standard advice from various law professionals, etc., about what to do and not do when detained by police.

        Edit to add: even if you expect the local PD to come down against your side, it’s probably still a good idea to call them in. The resulting time and chaos as they get things sorted out may be just enough to do something useful for the vulnerable person needing help. Remember, once that person is in the custody of the gestapo, it’s fucking over, their life is wrecked at best. See only what happened to Kilmar Abrego Garcia for proof.

        • grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org
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          21 days ago

          That’s one thing my campus has done decently–I know that to do if ICE shows up.

          1. they’re not allowed to just walk in to non-public areas
          2. we call campus police (whose main jobs seems to be keeping students safe and keeping campus out of the news). Annoyingly, I work in a public building (the library) but my office is private, big, and has a lock on the door. I’m well stocked up in case of a shelter-in-place situation and I’m happy to wait until campus police shows up.
            • grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org
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              21 days ago

              Thanks. It helps that I’m white enough I glow in the dark. My big worry is that many of my students might be first- and second-generation immigrants from south of the USA and I don’t want them to have to deal with this bullshit.

              (I say “might be” because I don’t know anyone’s immigration status and even if I did no I don’t.)

        • SabinStargem@lemmy.today
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          21 days ago

          I think we will need a phone app that modifies the emergency function:

          1: When the police are called, the recording function turns on. 2: The ACLU/legal services of choice are given the recording, live, without interfering with the current call. 3: ICE Spotting apps are given your current location, as are designated people in your contact list.

          In effect, this allows you to uphold your legal rights, since ICE would likely break your phone when they begin trafficking people, which may include you. Plus, people in the area might be alerted to the presence of ICE, and begin gathering. We should use the bee’s approach and swarm the bastards. Heat is the great weakness of ICE and bullies alike.

          • PolarKraken@sh.itjust.works
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            21 days ago

            This is a fantastic idea. To be clear, anyone working on such a thing will almost certainly gain the administration’s attention, which of course is extremely dangerous. But yes, this should exist!