Date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, with government using increasingly sophisticated tools to censor its discussion
There is no official death toll but activists believe hundreds, possibly thousands, were killed by China’s People’s Liberation Army in the streets around Tiananmen Square, Beijing’s central plaza, on 4 June 1989.
The date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, and the Chinese government employs extensive and increasingly sophisticated resources to censor any discussion or acknowledgment of it inside China. Internet censors scrub even the most obscure references to the date from online spaces, and activists in China are often put under increased surveillance or sent on enforced “holidays” away from Beijing.
New research from human rights workers has found that the sensitive date also sees heightened transnational repression of Chinese government critics overseas by the government and its proxies.
I’m surprised trump didnt try to give Taiwan away by tweet yet
Narrator: “It did.”
Why is it being written as “date of 4 June”?
There’s a whole world outside of the US.
That didn’t answer my question. Is it the new lemmy thing to fuck with Americans for asking questions? I thought that was unique to Reddit but I guess not.
I guess us Americans will be stuck being stupid because non Americans refuse to answer questions to make a point that Americans are stupid.
You have the opportunity to learn something and instead you throw a tantrum
I literally asked the question. I don’t know non US date formatting. I know this story didn’t originate in China so it can’t be Chinese date formatting. We have the guardian in the Us as well but this formatting is not from the US. I am actively trying to learn something. A simple answer like “XYZ country formats their dates this way”. If you don’t know not answering would have been fine but the condescending response isn’t helpful.
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It amuses me the amount of effort you’ve put into this instead of just simply googling the answer
Never forget says country engaged in rewriting its own history.
Marxist ideology is fragile house of cards, where each card is a lie. Without fallacies, misinformation, and outright lies, Marxism will collapse in on itself. It’s an ideology that cannot be defend on it’s own merits which is why its brainless supports will cling on to any fallacy to distract them for the reality.
Which country do you think The Guardian is from?
Things only come from murikkka. The American exceptionalism is rife.
England, a country absolutely dripping with revisionism.
FFS, the royal family of their Protestant breakaway nation is German Catholic.
wtf does the religion of the tourist-attraction royal family have to do with anything in 2025? are you from the middle ages?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills
Brits have no clue how powerful their monarchy remains.
This list also highlights how selfish they are.
My favorite thing to do is to watch liberals read the (very western biased) Wikipedia article on this event. The moment when they realize how many soldiers were killed before the crackdown is always radicalizing for those with even a modicum of intellectual curiosity.
Liberals are hardly better than the conservatives in the US. They all seem to be naive right wingers.
Killing the villainous authoritarian ork creature CCP is always virtuous and good and needs to be celebrated.
Stopping a tank in front of an unarmed bicyclist until police pull him out of the way is unforgivable genocide.
I had to do it, these people don’t even read their own fake sources.
I only see wiki reference 10 soldiers having died - is this the number you’re referring to?
Do you think that’s alot? In my head that’s disproportionately few compared to the [disputed] 100s of civilians that the Chinese government declared dead
According to the linked page with PLA/PAP casualties, there were 15 verifiable deaths (PRC official number is 23). Half of them weren’t directly caused by the protesters, and the other half occurred after troops first opened fire. Truly, I feel quite radicalized.
Consider yourself both radicalised and owned liberal! /s
Can you share that link? I’m curious how the 7 “non directly caused by protesters” died. They just had a random accident? Lovers quarrel? Food poisoning?
Summary is a truck flipped over, supposed friendly fire incident with a non-uniformed soldier, and a heart attack.
According to the official numbers there were ten civilians killed for every state agent of oppression.
I upvoted you, but a source for that statistic would still be nice.
The wikipedia article on the incident was my source.
That’s a pretty big article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
Can you be more specific? Then I can confidentiality repeat your fact.
“On 19 June, Beijing Party Secretary Li Ximing reported to the Politburo that the government’s confirmed death toll was 241, including 218 civilians (of which 36 were students), 10 PLA soldiers, and 13 People’s Armed Police, along with 7,000 wounded”
under “Death Toll”
Thanks
This sounds like how conservatives rationalize the Kent State massacre by claiming that the protesters were throwing feces.
You’re not radicalized. You just switched which authoritarian you swear fealty to.
It would be different if the protesters had lynched a dozen soldiers before they responded.
Of course given the context of the Vietnam war, the soldiers wouldn’t have been justified even if the protesters killed some of them first; you don’t get to claim self-defense when you yourself are only there to put down a protest against imperialism.
I guess the Chinese soldiers were minding their own business at home with their families, and not there to just put down protests against authoritarianism.
Wasn’t the problem that their families were part of the protesters? That’s why reinforcements from outside the city (without family ties) were called in.
See the big difference is the US was murdering countless Vietnamese to keep them under the boot of capitalism. The protesters in Tienanmen aren’t as black and white. If the protesters were protesting China poisoning the food supply and massacring countless villages of country on the other side of the planet to keep a country’s resources easy to exploit and their people’s blood ready to be spent keeping other countries under the boot of capitalism, it would be that simple, but they weren’t.
Also “against authoritarianism” lmao you are a literal child.
Most rational people oppose authoritarianism.
Here, it’ll take two minutes to read this. I’m not even going to get into the contexts “authoritarianism” is and isn’t used today (hint: liberals use it and see no hypocrisy).
do you think this is convincing, compelling? it is not.
it totally equates the democratic delegation of agency to elected delegates for a specific term and purpose with permanent subservience.
it’s an attack on strawmen, and you’re a born bootlicker if you’re this easily swayed into cheerleading for authoritarians.
Yeah Engels take on authoritarianism is dated and not really valid given that his ideologies do not result in anything other than authoritarian states IRL.
I’m always curious to compare how Americans view the Tianemen Square incident with Waco.
Like, if you ask an American to explain what happened at Waco, you’ll get a bunch of blank stares. A few people with anti-government views will explain how a religious community was ruthlessly butchered by the Gestapo-like FBI. A few people with anti-religious views will insist this was a child sex cult that committed suicide while the FBI tried to help.
But for the most part, those Americans who remember it just see it as another normal police action against people who were probably committing all sorts of crimes.
You could also talk about the BLM protests from '14 to '18, and how the broad American view was that this was police acting to protect private property. And maybe some of the protesters didn’t deserve such rough treatment, but hey they knew what they signed up for when they blocked traffic.
But the views on Tianemen are uniform. Chinese killed that nice man with their tank and then killed everyone else in the city and then covered it up in a way only people in China are unaware it happened.
“Chinese government killed their own people, it’s fine! They are basically property”
Reminds me of Hillsborough and “some fans”.
The capitalism capital of the world probably shouldn’t be preaching about human rights.
Boy, you sure did get 'em. No pointing out bad behavior unless your history is unblemished, I guess.
US history is a little more than unblemished, though. Hell, not even history. They are literally arming a genocidal state as we speak.
Don’t forget that they are literally being lead by a political movement named after the history denying idea that they were “great” at some point and want to get back to that (never mind the other lie that the leaders of the movement don’t actually want to get back to any particular point in history despite the name)
So is China.
Lol you’re the type of imbecile who would cry about Palestine and American imperialism, but then turn around and say shit like this. Marxists are a joke.
You’re not making much sense.
I’m saying you have no moral consistency. Think about it, what purpose does your comment serve besides defending this massacre? You’re simply mad that are people are recognizing it as such, and you want to shut down the criticism by screaming hypocrisy, but that in of itself is hypocritical because if China came out and recognized the trail of tears for example, you would be ecstatic with joy. You wouldn’t be crying about how China shouldn’t preach about human rights due to their extensive record of human rights abuses.
China?
Tankie bot says what now? Get lost.
Every now and then I follow up and ask tankies what their actionable alternative is. They just never have one. Just making perfect the enemies of good. Tankies are deeply un-serious.
Shocking idea (this will blow your mind), but what if we dont fund a genocidal apartheid state? I mean not cut military aid by 30% or delay it three weeks, what if we just dont? What if we dont compromise with fascism?
If you abstain then you won’t have influence to stop funding genocide.
If you are serious please comment a real and actionable alternative.
The fact that voting inherently requires accepting fascism does not make fascism ok, it inherently makes liberal democracy fascist. As for a real and actionable alternative, building dual power through unions. Build communities from the bottom up to resist fascism and arm workers to prepare for eventual revolution.
The fact that voting inherently requires accepting fascism does not make fascism ok, it inherently makes liberal democracy fascist
I don’t see how that follows
Build communities from the bottom up to resist fascism and arm workers to prepare for eventual revolution.
I agree, but don’t you want to see some incremental progress for it in the mean time? We need political influence and tankies are just not good allies for it. Genocide is happening today. People are hungry and without medicine today. We can’t wait for a perfect revolution (those who wait are really just showing their privilege). Waiting for that also means leaving those you intended to help to die in the trenches. That in short is why I consider tankies un-serious.
I support the community building from the bottom up, but tankies are not doing that either. They are no shows on all fronts, and demoralizing our movements when we do try to do other things.
Agreed people are dying today, thats why we cant make these compromises. Compromising the lives of milliones of people based on what makes a bunch of privileged white liberals feel comfortable. Because right now only liberals are trying to equate the Palestinian Genocide with Palestinian resistance, thats what actural both sideism looks like.
Best resource distribution (economic) model according to tankies: “Trust me bro”
I’d still rather have a more socialist society. Distribution based on markets means depriving those in need. Unfortunately tankies would rather leave vulnerable people to suffer the brutality of capitalism.
Whataboutism.
Taiwan?
Tankies talking about Tiananmen Square without whataboutism:
Challenge Level = IMPOSSIBLE
downvotes are from tankies
Free West Taiwan! Someday, the White Sun will rise above Peking.
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Meanwhile Oklahoma telling kids the 2020 election was rigged under state law.
Tankies and whataboutism, name a more iconic duo (pro tip: you can’t)
whataboutism
How to spot a shill for state propaganda.
Ah yes, the state is paying me to call out idiots on Lemmy for using fallicious argumentation and inconsistent logic. Which state is paying me? Who knows, but that’s the fun of making up random baseless accusations when you have nothing of value to provide.
You say whataboutism, I say hypocrisy.
Whataboutism is literally the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy. It’s a fallacy because the appeal is done in place of a proper argument that addresses the original issue. The very purpose of this fallacy is to distract from the original issue and to dismiss criticism without ever addressing it by bringing up something irrelevant to the topic at hand and accusing others of hypocrisy.
The point isn’t to distract, it’s to provide context so the accuser can’t create an inaccurate framing. The atomic unit of propaganda isn’t lies, it’s emphesis.
If every week, a right-wing German posted about how many gays Britain murdered, imprisoned, or castrated during the 40s, it would be borderline deceitful for other lemmy users not to provide the full context of what Germany was doing to gays at that time (and what West Germany continued to do until the 1970s).
Same deal when we get the occasional zionist talking about the plight of gay Palestinians. Yes, they have their own struggle, but there is a very specific and obvious purpose behind a zionist bringing it up.
You’re being dishonest. You didn’t provide any context or made any remark regarding framing or context. In fact, you made no argument at all. You just brought up an entirely irrelevant subject for the sole purpose to distract from the original issues and dismiss the criticism being brought up by appealing to hypocrisy. It’s literally the textbook definition of the fallacy.
Same deal when we get the occasional zionist talking about the plight of gay Palestinians.
This is a good example, you’re exactly like them in this case.
The subject is “whataboutism”, or when people bring up similar, but far worse things done by liberal institutions in response to supporters of liberal institutions accusing communists of doing bad things to show that the supporter of the liberal institution doesn’t actually give a shit about the event they’re crying about and is simply using it as a pretext to justify hostility against that communist state, victims included.
That’s a wild assumption you just made up based on literally nothing. But the fact that you need to make up such assumptions is ironic, because it shows that yourself are a hypocrite. You support these atrocities and the regimes who committed them and so you perceive people calling out these acts as unjustified “hostility” rather warranted criticism. Since you’re admitting that you don’t actually care about the atrocities being committed, that means the only purpose you would bring up anything to do with “liberal institutions” is to be fallacious, which is exactly the case here.
The entire purpose of bringing up entirely irrelevant subjects is to distract from the original issue and dismiss criticism. There’s no context, there’s no argument, there’s no point. You’re simply mad that the regime you support is being criticized and as a desperate attempt to divert attention away from the criticism, you bring up irrelevant topics and accuse people of being hypocrites for their criticism of the original topic… even that doesn’t negate the validity of their criticism whatsoever.
When people call you out on your fallacious argumentation, they’re telling that the logic you’re using is inconsistent. If you’re actually ignorant enough to not understand what the fallacies are or why they’re bad then that’s a different issue, but if you’re aware what they are and why they’re bad and still choose to be annoyed then that means you’re disingenuous. It means you’re arguing in bad faith from the get go, which is an indication that the beliefs you are trying to defend are flawed to the point where you can’t defend them on their own merits.
I say, why not both?
This is just my personal experience:
~I was talking to a few young Chinese. They were after born after the massacre happened.~
“Why are Hong Kong people are so full of themselves and rebellious? They think they are better? (Derogatory comments…”, cheating among themselves, happily.
I couldn’t help and interrupted, “Some young promising Hong Kong students were murdered, beaten and kidnapped under the mainland China. You can’t blame them for not being defensive.”
Immediately they resorted to their memorised response, “Do you have any resources to back up what you said? The official death count was zero.”
Of course there was no “official” news resources. China suppresses the news media.
"It is the same as Tiananmen massacre. You won’t find any “official resources " but everyone knows people were killed.”
Another one retorted, “The official number is zero. What official resources you have to backup your claim?”
It was useless to talk anymore at that moment. I left. My encounter probably would be on their “report.”
I find it pretty rare to meet Chinese people like that. Most of the ones I meet know that stuff happened isn’t that the government covered it up but they don’t think that the government covering things up is all that unusual or newsworthy.
Kent State says what?
No no no. This anniversary is about how communism is bad.
Everyone should read this
https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs
Reading this whole thing never gets easier
Never forget when the CIA organised an armed color revolution which resulted into people shooting at the Chinese military. The clashes outsider of the square, not on it as the name suggests, resulted in a total of around 300 deaths.
Tiananmen has to be the dumbest propaganda pount because it is so incredibly easy to debunk for anyone who has basic access to a search machine. The CIA literally admitted they backed the riots.
The sheer hypocrisy of posting this while the American government is arming a live streamed genocide with over 60.000, likely more than 200.00p killed.
Yeah, everything bad is the CIA’s fault! A one-party dictatorship would never violently suppress dissent, and anyone saying otherwise is a paid shill!
“Students” hahaha. Nice of you to leave out that the rioters started attacking the police first and literally burned police officiers alive. The peaceful protesters at the square were not attacked.
There are actual events you can point to in which China represses their population. This is probably the dumbest one because extreme restraint was shown from the Chinese authorities.
If it was America the guy blocking the tank from leaving the square would have been run over. And you would probably be screaming fafo.
Another brain washed CCP admirer from Xi’s $0.50 Army. The CCP murdered over 70 million people, who disagreed, since 1920 and the number continues to rise.
Yeah! They had it coming! The police acted with the utmost restraint when they brought tanks to a protest, and America totally would have done worse than bringing tanks to a protest and totally would have ran protestors over with said tanks!!!
Oh no he pulls out the image implying that the tank ran over a protester on the square!
But he forgets that there is a video
Of a man who blocks tanks driving away from the square… and… climbing on top of a military vehicle!!!
What do you think would happen in America to someone who climbed on top of a tank and opened the hatch? And even still, he did not get shot but simply escorted away. Amazing.
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Do you know who it is?
he got carried away and was never seen again
Of course we don’t know his name, he got disappeared by a dictatorship. In a free country, we would know his name and he would be a powerful symbol of dissent against the government. Instead, he was erased as a human.
Love the propaganda around this. Its very dramatic and all. But here in the west its held up as some big thing. The rest of the video never gets played.
You should(n’t) see the gruesome pictures. China is likely very happy that the tank man picture became famous when there were LOADS of other horrible images .
Especially this video where the ‘students’ hijacked a tank and fired it.
That video is really low res. Do you have any sources that prove that the moving object is a tank and that the people are students?
But honestly it doesn’t really matter because running over people because they are protesting a dictatorship is fucking gruesome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
Demonstrators attacked troops with poles, rocks, and molotov cocktails; Jeff Widener reported witnessing rioters setting fire to military vehicles and beating the soldiers inside them to death.[178] On one avenue in western Beijing, anti-government protestors torched a military convoy of more than 100 trucks and armored vehicles.[179] They also hijacked an armored personnel carrier, taking it on a joy ride. These scenes were captured on camera and broadcast by Chinese state television.[180]
Good old peaceful demonstration strikes again. Luckily those students were not doing anything violent such as holding up a Palestine flag. Then the US media would tell us how violence against them is fully justified
Has anyone claimed that the protests were entirely peaceful? Of course some turn violent when you roll in with your army and riot police gun blazing.
And thanks for confirming that it wasn’t a tank.
There really are no excuses for the killing of dozens if not hundreds of civilians and protestors.
And the protests were entirely peaceful to begin with but of course China couldn’t let that continue.
The censorship of the event also speaks a great deal about who’s fault it is.
The protesters on the square did not get shot. The Western media confirms nobody of the peaceful protesters on the square got killed.
Violent rioters who stoned and burnt police did get killed. On day4. There weer already multiple police killed on day3. Even Western media acknowledges all of what I am saying happened.
The censorship of the event also speaks a great deal about who’s fault it is.
The amazing amount of misinformation being spread here says a lot more about how insane the Western brainwashing machine is.
Which western media?
So because the US media justifies the killing of Palestinians, China is justified in killing student protesters, is that what you want to say?
Also, you seem to be arguing that since some demonstrators are acting violent, shooting at, running over and oppressing student protesters are also justified? That sounds like the same logic Zionists use to justify killing Palestinians because some of them might be Hamas. You seem to agree with Zionists quite a lot.
Armed rioters burning cops alive are not “student protesters”.
The US media somehow manages to switch the two around for their propaganda purposes.
You apparently cannot tell the difference either.
And yet the student protesters are being run over despite your claim that only armed rioters are burning cops alive. The exact same reasoning Zionists use to justify killing Palestinians. Like I said, you think exactly like a Zionist, which is funny.
Nice use of selective quoting, the situation had already escalated at that point. From your source, one paragraph before yours:
The advance of the army was again halted by another blockade at Muxidi, about 5 km west of the square. After protesters repelled an attempt by an anti-riot brigade to storm the bridge, regular troops advanced on the crowd and turned their weapons on them. Soldiers alternated between shooting into the air and firing directly at protesters. Soldiers raked apartment buildings with gunfire, and some people inside or on their balconies were shot.
And, from the beginning of the section:
At 9:30 p.m, this army encountered a blockade set up by protesters at Gongzhufen in Haidian District, and made an attempt to break through. Troops armed with anti-riot gear clashed with the protesters and began firing rubber bullets and tear gas, while the protesters in return threw rocks and soda bottles at them. Other troops fired warning shots into the air, which was ineffective.
Who could’ve guessed that people turn violent when you start shooting them 😱
My argument was related to the APC. Which is factually true.
Your quote however is very selective.
On the evening of 2 June, an accident occurred in which a PAP jeep ran onto a sidewalk, killing three civilian pedestrians and injuring a fourth. This incident sparked fear that the army and the police were trying to advance into Tiananmen Square.[159] Student leaders issued emergency orders to set up roadblocks at major intersections to prevent the entry of troops into the centre of the city.[160]
On the morning of 3 June, students and citizens intercepted and questioned a busload of plainclothed soldiers at Xinjiekou. Isolated pockets of soldiers were similarly surrounded and interrogated.[161][56]
The soldiers were beaten by the crowd, as were Beijing security personnel who attempted to aid the soldiers. Some of the soldiers were kidnapped when they attempted to head for the hospital.[160] Several other buses carrying weapons, gear, and supplies were intercepted and boarded around Tiananmen.[160]
At 1 pm, a crowd intercepted one of these buses at Liubukou, and several men raised military helmets on bayonets to show the rest of the crowd.[162] At 2:30 pm, a clash broke out between protesters and police.[163][160] The police attempted to disperse the crowd with tear gas, but demonstrators counterattacked and threw rocks, forcing them to retreat inside the Zhongnanhai compound through the west gate.
in china they censor it on internet searches. thats why alot of thier netizens use proxies and anti-detect browsers.
