- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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ITT: Liberals who assume that evil Chinese MUST be lying about their statistics but the above board whites of the USA are not.
Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?
Can’t have anything to do with the fact that the US legally allows prisoner slavery right?
Winder what the race ratio of the prison population is.
This is the country routinely accusing other countries of having “prison camps.”
Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?
Legit amazed California wasn’t higher on the list. They’ve been doing mass-incarceration at an industrial scale since the 70s. But I guess the population is big enough that the per-capita statistics work out.
States like Alabama, Louisiana, and Oklahoma have such small and anemic populations and dedicate so much of their domestic budget to incarceration that they’re basically giant publicly subsidized slave plantations.
LOL just calculated for my country and we’re at 100 per 100000
It’s too hilarious it can’t be intentional that the top country not America is El Salvador which is where you’re questionably sending all your black and brown people.
Nothing more American than privatizing and off-shoring our concentration camps.
Preach
I went to business school in the US about a decade ago (stayed full time engineer and happy about it) and I can absolutely see business schools unironically studying the process of privatizing and offshoring prisons as it relates to other more ethical and humane enterprises.
Worthwhile note to people too lazy to click on the link is that this is the 2021 version. In June 2024 (which is linked at the top of the linked article) the numbers look a little different but not much better for the US.
1970 was during the cultural revolution. In that year, the world population was 3.68 billion, and the population if China was just shy of 830 million - China had 22% of the world’s population, so if they held (only) 20% of the world’s prisoners, they’d have a lower than average incarceration rate.
The same is not true for the US today, we have less than 5% of the world’s population today.
I’m not saying the US isn’t shit with for profit prisons, but I’m not believing shit for any number that China provides on pretty much anything.
Interesting because the number comes from the Institute for Criminal Research and not China, but go on with your total and complete acceptance of US propaganda and unfound hatred of China.
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fucking hell you’re a propagandized racist loser
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We don’t believe our governments propaganda
You say, after regurgitating a bunch of your governments propaganda
Real easy to get the numbers though
To be fair, China is 2nd in overall prison population by country globally, so it’s not like their numbers are complete bs. I’m sure there is some fudging in what constitutes as a “prisoner” when they
havehad “re-education camps” though. That said, the US’s numbers are fucking insane.they have “re-education camps” though
Do they, though? You, as a champion of human rights in China, are aware that the reeducation camps are closed for years now, aren’t you?
I’m sure the government that lied about wrongly imprisoning people in the first place is totally being truthful now.
I wouldn’t take the Chinese or US government’s claims at face value.
If by “the government” you mean “The Washington Post” and much more western media, then sure
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/23/china-xinjiang-crackdown-uyghurs-surveillance/
There’s an example article, a quick google for “China closed reeducation camps” will throw more results if you feel like doing a bit of research on the brave defence of human rights that you champion.
I mean, googling that does not give the result you claimed it would. In fact, it talks more about how they opened up different types of camps instead
It talks about how they opened up prisons, which is exactly what this post takes into account. There are more people in prisons in the US than in the entirety of China.
You clearly have done 0 research on this topic, and until 5 minutes ago you believed that the reeducation camps were still open and ongoing, despite them closing years ago. Educate yourself on the conditions of the people who you pretend to care about, or stop with your concern trolling.
And the information they publish comes from where exactly?
There is no need for snarkiness, by the way. You act like Im attacking you directly. If this is how you communicate, I’m just going to block you and move on with my life.
the information they publish comes from where exactly?
As per the article: “A nine-day reporting trip by The Washington Post through the region…”.
I understand you’re not attacking me directly, but it’s so exhausting seeing the same talking points of concern trolls like you who have heard on reddit and Lemmy about the Uyghurs, and uncritically swallowed the western propaganda and champion the rights of an ethnic minority in China. And when confronted with stuff you don’t know, such as the camps being closed for years, you jump to saying “according to whom, to the government?” and when confronted with the fact that it’s western media publishing this, you go ahead and go yo claim “where does this come from exactly?” as if journalistic work wasn’t possible or as if the information wasn’t literally on the third paragraph of the link I sent.
As per the article: “A nine-day reporting trip by The Washington Post through the region…”.
Ah, interesting. My apologies, I’ve been driving all day and have been checking my phone sporadically and haven’t had the time to properly read the article. I have now.
but it’s so exhausting seeing the same talking points of concern trolls like you who have heard on reddit and Lemmy …
I totally understand, and I do apologize for propagating this behaviour. My knowledge was outdated and that’s no one’s fault but my own.
All in all though, my whole point is honestly just that I don’t really trust any government to be totally truthful in regards to information they share, regardless of whether that’s the US, China, or even my home country, and my initial assumption was that this information was coming from them directly. Clearly, I was incorrect in this case, spouted some outdated shit confidently, and I apologize. I appreciate your patience.
Instead of being in prison, they were dying out off hunger and concentration camps… There are idiots supporting US, and hypocrites supporting china…
Wow China really dropped the ball on this one.
13th is a really good documentary. Indentured Survitude
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Which part of comparing incarceration rates do you take issue with? Why is acknowledging the difference “mindless?”
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That’s all this post was about, though, a comparison showing that per capita (and totally), incarceration rates in the PRC is far lower than in the US Empire. The purpose is to highlight the hypocricy of those who hold the PRC as more repressive than the US Empire, when the opposite is abundantly clear to anyone looking at hard metrics such as incarceration rates.
You decided to make a pivot in a completely different direction and just complain about Marxists, which just screams that you want attention more than anything. I suppose I’m providing that for you if that’s what you want, but really it’s just good practice to call out the incoherence of anti-communists.
More creepy US prison statistics.
The red army of china didn’t really take prisoners.
What are you talking about have you never heard of
emperorComrade Puyi?
The top score would be Gaza tho with 100% of its population being prisoners of Israel.
The proposed stat is '20% of the world’s prison population". No country can ever reach 100% while any other country on Earth has at least 1 prisoner.
Statistics are Khammaaaaz!!!
Israel is trying to zero out that number as quickly as they can.
1 843 701 US prison population
1 686 108 China prison population
On its own that’s misleading, you should be using the per capita stats.
Per capita is misleading, it over represents low populations and under represents high populations
When you use it, it makes Canadian cities appear more violent than American cities as an example
And yet, the USA still the 5th highest in incarceration numbers and the highest in absolute numbers.
I’d say that tells you enough
Per Capita shows that China has a lower total prison population than a country much smaller than it in population. Both per capita and total counts are lower in the PRC despute having several times the population.
Yes, I can read the graphic and my own post
Per capita isn’t misleading, it’s more relevant than totals.
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What’s your point, here? Marxists are bad because China has a higher population, meaning per capita comparisons are more accurate when directly comparing with the US?
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Blue MAGA denying facts, literally the actual numbers and think that we just “feel’ it’s true” are pretty much the same as MAGA.
I’m sure he hasn’t got a clue how many Chinese there are, or where China is.
All that matters is China bad, commie bad
The trick is to always assume “China is lying about its internal statistics” and inflate whatever number they give by an arbitrary large percentage. 1.7M is obviously an under-count because the CCP is always lying about everything.
Also, you can do some broad brush “Everyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, and Taiwan are prisoners of the Chinese state, so actually that’s over 60M people” napkin math to make the numbers look better.
No, Occupied China doesn’t control DPRK or ROC
If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either so the whole conversation becomes pointless
In what way is the PRC “occupied China?” The people overthrew the nationalist KMT dictatorship, who then fled to Taiwan and murdered all of their opposition among the people that were living there at the time.
If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either
😏
ILikeNazis
I think this is a good rule of thumb in general. When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect. For example, the referendum in held in the Baltics about leaving the USSR ended in favor of leaving, which I think is a good example of a trustworthy statistic. But the subsequent referendum in the remaining members ended in favor of staying in the USSR, and I think that’s a little suspicious, don’t you?
Why would it be suspicious? Different members of the USSR had different national conditions, some were quite nationalist and opposed being a part of the USSR, some were more internationalist and wished to retain the Soviet system. In the following years, there have been many studies verifying that of those who lived through Socialism, the majority wish it had remained over the devastation Capitalism brought to the majority of people.
It’s suspicious because it disagrees with my preconceived notions about communism.
The opening of the Soviet Archives backs up these claims. If your pre-concieved notions about Communism are negative, I really recommend giving Blackshirts and Reds a read if you’ve got the time and willingness.
See now there you’ve made a crucial error. You’re recommending a book which, while it has some criticism of the specifics of how the USSR implemented socialism, on the whole it’s quite positive about the idea of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat in general. Obviously that disagrees with my preconceived notion that humans are greedy, and that therefore capitalism is good, so I would never read a source that contradicts this, because I would have to dismiss most of it outright. And that’s just a hassle.
I don’t follow, the author being positive about the working class running society rather than privledged elites having dictatorial control a la Capitalism doesn’t mean you need to dismiss the facts it brings up outright. Are you saying that, as someone biased towards Capitalism, you dismiss any criticism of Capitalism and any positive opinions on Socialism outright? If so, I can’t imagine how you live your life in other areas that contradict your current understanding!
To return, I don’t at all believe it’s suspect that the majority of people wished to retain Socialism, and this fact is further cemented by this same general notion being repeated over and over again in polling.
How can I say this in .ml-ese? Hmmm, try asking the folks who actually lived in those places.
How can I say this in liberal-ese? It’s well documented that the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back. This is no surprise, 7 million people died due to the reintroduction of Capitalism, poverty skyrocketed, food insecurity skyrocketed, wealth disparity skyrocketed, prostitution and human traficking skyrocketed, and their economies were obliterated.
Where you from?
Doesn’t matter. I have spoken to people from the Soviet Union. I don’t personally need to be from the Soviet Union to read on its history, or the devaststion that came from its dissolution, and you saying you or someone you knew was from it doesn’t invalidate those I have spoken to and the research I’ve done. It’s lazy, anecdotes matter very little in the face of hard metrics and facts.
When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect.
I… thought you were being sarcastic. This is an obvious and severe flaw to have in one’s rational thinking.
prejudice (noun)
1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts.With much love and respect I ask you to please read the remainder of my comments in this thread.
oic. Carry on, comrade.
The rest are in undeclared labor camps
Goes for both
The rest are in undeclared labor camps
Goes for both
US labor camps are not undeclared (though extraterritorial black sites are). They’re called prisons, and the labor is slave labor, thanks to the 13th amendment.
The previous user is a bit off base with the labor camps idea (not to say that the Xinjiang detention camps for Uyghurs aren’t widely known), but it is worth noting that China does utilize administrative detentions/行政拘留 for smaller offenses which are kept statistically separate from prison counts.
If Raiden needs a source, the law covering administrative detentions can be reviewed here:
Xinjiang reeducation camps were closed around 2022 though?
but it is worth noting that China does utilize administrative detention
Isn’t that the same as Jails in the US which is separate from prison statistics?
Jail is where you go for the night when arrested for disorderly conduct and are released the next day.
Administrative detentions can be longer. On paper they can hold you about a month, but it can be longer than that with a judge’s signoff if they have proof of a crime.
This is typically where the police try to get you to confess to something and drag it out as long and uncomfortably as possible until you do, after which you either get to go free (though you end up on a list for a long time) or you may go to a “black jail”/黑監獄 which is a sort of under-the-table prison.
The terms of release can also sometimes require completion of a rehabilitation program, which is often the voluntary alternative to prison, or getting transferred to a short stay detention center for a few months to perform community service.
Administrative detentions can be longer. On paper they can hold you about a month, but it can be longer than that with a judge’s signoff if they have proof of a crime.
And in the US, jail can be up to just short of a year.
This is typically where the police try to get you to confess to something and drag it out as long and uncomfortably as possible until you do, after which you either get to go free (though you end up on a list for a long time) or you may go to a “black jail”/黑監獄 which is a sort of under-the-table prison.
The terms of release can also sometimes require completion of a rehabilitation program, which is often the voluntary alternative to prison, or getting transferred to a short stay detention center for a few months to perform community service.
So pretty similar to the US.
Yeah, the justice system in the US is pretty fucked up. Provably so, with plenty of data made publicly available to back it up.
And in the US, jail can be up to just short of a year.
I’d like to point out, ‘proper’ jail, for misdemeanor level offenses, is ‘up to a year,’ but I personally know individuals who have been in jail (where people awaiting trial stay, in addition to people convicted of misdemeanors) for over three years now, still waiting on their trial.
That meme is working extra hard today but it’s just so perfect for the occasion.
Jail is usually for holding during due process and for sentences up to a year. Prison is generally for sentences longer than a year.
The reeducation camps closed years ago. Here you have a western source claiming so:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/23/china-xinjiang-crackdown-uyghurs-surveillance/
Surely a champion of Uyghur rights would be aware of this already?
Source: The US propaganda you received and believe uncritically.
What’s next, you explaining their inherent need to lie because of their race?
Your brain on for-profit prisons:
Woah watch out. You might offend Red Scare propagandists
