It showed up out of nowhere, made the most bank in history (for a movie), refused to explain and disappeared for like 15 years, then came back out of nowhere with a sequel movie, a AAA game, and like 3 more movies in the works.
Edit: I think it now has like a Lego line too?
I saw the first movie, forgot almost completely what it was about. But I have to admit I thought it would be about the the Airbender. Half of the movie I felt stupid and cheated at the same time… Probably why I don’t remember what it was about.
Nope. I knew what I was seeing.
I usually like to challenge anyone who said they liked it to name two chsracters. I think one person ever has succeeded.
🤷♂️
Jake and Colonel Quaritch.
The problem is, the latter is a name recycled from the Aliens franchise, and Jake is so generic that it’s kind of a gimme.
Well, there’s Sully, and, uh… Well the blue people are called the Navi, does that count?
That’s even weirder really, the movie was so forgettable.
Well, it’s better than the actual ATLA movie.
Oddly enough, the Shyalaman movie is my favorite version of that whole franchise.
Some people just love watching the crashes more than the race…
Ok I’m trying to be as open minded as possible here, but…how?
I didn’t like the art style of the cartoon, that’s a big part of it. I also appreciated the story being condensed - the movie cut out what amounts to about 11 hours of padding. The only thing I saw as being questionable was the Earthbender section (I watched that episode just for Sulu voicing the bad guy), but I think the point of their spirits being broken is even more pronounced when they’re literally on ground, rather than trapped in the water.
So basically, the animation and the time.
I didn’t like the art style of the cartoon
Hard to say much about that. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. Personally, with the exception of a few moments where it goes “all anime” (because personally, I cannot stand anime, and have never found a single anime show that I could stand to watch for very long, in part because of the preponderance of ridiculous over-the-top reactions)
I find Avatar to be one of the most beautifully-animated shows out there. Especially in moments like the climax of Crossroads of Destiny or during the Last Agni Kai.
the movie cut out what amounts to about 11 hours of padding
This I could not disagree with more strongly. And I don’t think this is opinion, but pretty solid fact. There’s a little padding for sure, but on the whole Avatar is an incredible example of how to do serialised storytelling well. With very little exception, every episode makes some major steps towards advancing the main story, deepening the characters, or deepening the worldbuilding to help heighten the stakes. Usually at least 2 of the 3. The first season is definitely the worst in this regard with episodes like The King of Omashu (which adds some worldbuilding that is important later, but is otherwise not a brilliantly-utilised episode), The Great Divide (an infamous joke within the community), and The Fortuneteller (whose only real redeeming quality is its role in effectively kicking off the romance arc). But in a 20-episode season, and for a show where this is the worst season, that’s a pretty damn good record.
but I think the point of their spirits being broken is even more pronounced when they’re literally on ground
That’s something that could be a good point, but the movie doesn’t really do anything to show why their spirits are broken.
The episode does a great job of this, by showing that even once Aang provides them with coal to earthbend, they are too broken to take it up right away. In the movie the prisoners outnumber their guards, and always have done, and there’s nothing stopping them using their powers whatsoever, either in theory or in the narrative.
And in fact, I think when it’s one smallish scene within a much larger movie, it’s always inevitably going to be hard to adequately “show, don’t tell” why the prison is able to break their spirits despite being surrounded by earth. So ironically, this is something that, if they wanted to do it, a longer runtime in a show is what could have made it work.
I watched that episode just for Sulu voicing the bad guy
It really does have a spectacular voice cast. Outside the core cast, Mark Hamill, René Auberjonois, Jason Isaacs, and Clancy Brown are also among those really worth mentioning.
I guess that’s another part of my issue - the setting really never grabbed me or seemed worth the investment that others were putting into it. So that might be why you saw world building and I just saw padding. l only saw “generic anti-authoritarian fantasypunk #367”, you saw something else. Because really, that’s how I see it. It’s fantasypunk, bordering on religious deconstruction. Heck, it’s even messianic, and the core concept is an unwilling messiah accepting his role and the chaos of the world left without a connection to the divine - a deconstruction that was already trite a century before ATLA.
The movie sticks to the beats of the core narrative and the modified Hero’s Journey. The show tries to meander and present multiple heroes - but when the narrative is messianic, you have to get to the point of the messiah saving the world and then departing in some way, leaving the world secure in the knowledge that the divine presence is both with them and apart from them, giving them free will but bearing judgement.
What I think most people like about the worldbuilding is the rich believable cultures that manage to be very obviously inspired by real-world Asian cultures, without being either caricatures or carbon copies. That it has a magic system that is woven seamlessly through the society of the world and doesn’t at all feel like “a medieval society with magic added on as an afterthought”. That the magic system itself does a great job of providing examples for all three of Sanderson’s Laws, being a robust hard magic system with very obvious limitations that gets explored in depth through things like ice and blood and lightning as believable extensions of what already exists. Revelations that make you go “oh yeah, of course!” and “holy shit that’s cool!” simultaneously.
In terms of characters, Aang’s certainly not the most interesting. I think it’s a bit more interesting than you give it credit for, because it’s not just an “unwilling messiah”, but it’s a literal child who’s forced to be a saviour. Not the teenager or young adult that you’d get with most YA fiction, but someone very much characterised as a young child forced to grow up too early. Themes of loss of innocence and the tragedy of war get explored well through him. But as I said, he’s not really the focus.
Zuko is. Zuko’s character arc is frequently cited as one of the best redemption arcs in fiction, and for good reason. It’s one of the best written, most believable arcs I’ve seen. He starts out a bad guy, because he was born on the side of the bad guys. But we later learn that he was banished because he stood up for the little guy. And even though banished, he doesn’t suddenly change the allegiances he’s grown up with his whole life. He believes he can restore his honour by aiding the bad guys and taking out the main good guy. Of course it’s actually a rather classic case of “he needed to find acceptance from within and stop seeking external validation”, which is a well-trod trope, but it’s his path to get there that’s great. Thanks to his contact with the good guys, and the helpful but non-pushy guidance of his uncle, he slowly comes to appreciate that he can be better. But it’s rather shallow and focused on just himself, not on understanding that the ruler of the bad guys is a bad guy. And so when the ruler welcomes him back, he goes. It’s not a smooth curve from bad guy to good guy, there’s a very prominent relapse along the way, due in part to the misaligned reason for his initial growth.
Other characters are also great. Azula’s tragic descent into madness, shown as an extremely believable progression resulting from traits she exhibited in her very first scenes. The understanding that Ozai might be irredeemable because he’s been steeped in the evil of the Fire Nation his whole life, but that the war didn’t start out like that: Sozin was ego-driven and insane, but ultimately got there because of his tragic friendship with Roku turning sour after he was just spreading his nation’s prosperity. Not a redeeming quality by any means, but an understandable one. There’s Hama; captured and tortured for years until she got the chance to turn the tables and became the torturer. And of course, Iroh. So much could be said about Iroh.
Of course there are other things outside of that. The music is sublime. The representation is great—I’ve already mentioned the fact that it’s focused on Asian and indigenous cultures, but also for people with a variety of different disabilities. The fact that it balances tone incredibly well with its serious moments and the light-hearted humour. The fact that it is, without a doubt, a children’s show that nonetheless does not condescend to kids, and even manages to have depth enough to attract a lot of adults (and know personally multiple, as well as having seen stories of people online, who were first introduced to it as adults, so it’s not just nostalgia).
I just…yeah. I cannot say enough good things about it.
There is no movie in Ba Sing Se.
There also is no live action TV adaptation.
It didn’t help that it came out around the same time as the ATLA movie.
Technically humans are the aliens in that franchise. The blue folks are the native inhabitants.
/s
Shit movie.
I want to hear the original version of the soundtrack. I do not care about the actual film at all, but supposedly Cameron hired a bunch of leading ethnomusicologists to attempt to create something unlike any music on Earth, only to then ditch the majority of what they made because it sounded too weird
That would be a fun director’s cut
The thing that I think a lot of people forget about the first Avatar is that it was pretty much the first big blockbuster to be available with those RealD 3D glasses. I distinctly remember wanting to go see it so I could check out RealD and find out if it lived up to the hype.
Of course, it had the James Cameron name recognition, so it was probably going to be pretty successful regardless, but I don’t know if it would have been quite so record-shattering if it weren’t for the novelty of RealD, combined with the higher ticket price of 3D showings.
Yeah, one of the nice things about it was that not only was it proper 3D, but it was a showcase of how 3D could and should be done. If anyone didn’t watch it in 3D in the theaters, the only other option for seeing it as intended is VR now.
I’m in the camp of people that has watched it and the second one multiple times. Made sure to catch them in theater first, I rarely bother to see movies in theater. But at home I watch them in my VR theater in perfect 3D, the visuals are actually better in my setup(4k raw videofile on Virtual Desktop, tuned to the exact size and distance I want the screen to be), the sound isn’t quite what a theater would do, but mostly cuz I don’t actually like how “big” they go with the sound at theaters. I’d rather it feel like I’m there, than being so over the top. My audio at home doesn’t have to drown out a crowd of people.
I think the whole experience in VR is better than theater, the movie presents better at a reasonable volume and soundstage.
I like how RealD looks well enough, but the glasses tended to give me a mild headache after a while. I’ve been able to wear VR headsets without much issue in the handful of times I’ve been able to try them, so maybe that would work better, but I don’t think I’ve actually worn one for multiple hours at a time, so who knows.
Yeah, when I first started VR back with my DK2, I could only wear that about 2 hours at a time. Over the years, not sure how much of it was me adapting to it and how much was VR headsets and aftermarket mods getting better, but I can and often do, spend 16 hours a day in VR now.
VR has replaced almost every screen in my life. I watch TV and movies on it, I play my traditional computer games on it(flat or 3D or fully converted to 3rd or 1st person VR), as well as my native VR games. With recent headsets being able to fully bring the real world back in and blend it with the VR perfectly, I just socialize equally with the people that are actually in the same room as me, as well as people who just -seem- like they are in the same room as me. The only screen it hasn’t replaced yet is my phone, some people and companies had made some inroads into incorporating phone stuff in VR, but that didn’t really take off. And also I still make sure I can see the real TV everyone else can see when hanging out with my family. So I can be involved in the conversation around what we/they are watching. And yes, the Quest 3 can see TV screens clearly in passthrough, previous headsets struggled there. I can even read the closed captioning.
To me and my family, it just feels normal now, my sister is also pretty much at the same point. I got her to try it a couple years ago when she was upset that certain games she wanted to play from the couch or recliner didn’t look or run well on her Steam Deck. I was like, you have an amazing computer, you could be playing those games at 4k and not have to be looking down at your hands if you just try it in VR like I do. So she did try, and she has never gone back. She uses my Quest pro, I use a Quest 3, I only modded the pro for about 8 hours runtime, since the controllers were only 8 hours anyway. But since she is mostly using it for PC games, she is generally using an xbox controller. So she just plugs the headset into a charger at her seat. Because 8 hours wasn’t enough.
Ok, well that has veered off topic, sorry.
If you were late teens / early 20’s or older when it first came out, I don’t think it that weird.
It was bloody amazing. And then we’ve just all been waiting for it until the sequels, which are just now starting to roll in. The second one was a bit of a disappointment (bro) in my opinion, but I’m hoping the third one will be a positive surprise.
Basically I went to watch it for nostalgia, as I think a lot did.
AAA-game? Aren’t there like lots of Avatar games?
Yeah, 2009 there was one, online shut down for it in 2014.
Guess you’re talking about “the frontiers of Pandora” from 2023?
There’s also “Pandora rising” from 2020.
The sequels were always in the works. The first movie was an experience and now people are just chasing that high again.
Hell, there’s still tons of people waiting on the continuation on what happens to Jon Snow in the books after he’s stabbed. That’s still in the works with George, hopefully. Since like 2011.
i was, but i also saw disney’s pocahontas as a kid. so uh… it was just that, but in 3d.
Yeah I saw Pocahontas in theaters as well. Loved it. Dad took me. Thanks for unlocking some memories of my late pops. Thanks, for real.
Prolly primed me to like Avatar tbh, or just liked it for the same reasons.
Yes, the similarities are remarkable, but it’s not literally the same story, just mostly similar beats.
But I needn’t remind you that a majority of all stories are more or less the monomyth aka the hero’s journey:
In narratology and comparative mythology, the hero’s quest or hero’s journey, also known as the monomyth, is the common template of stories that involve a hero who goes on an adventure, is victorious in a decisive crisis, and comes home changed or transformed.
Very much applies to Jakesully in this Avatar as well. Ofc there’s much more that matches up with Pocahontas, I’m just pointing out that “true originality” doesn’t exist, we seem to enjoy more or less similar stories/story structures, and the thing people loved in Avatar was the millions they spend imagining a rather complete world with a tad more complexity than Disney’s -95 animated Pocahontas had. Although it waa beautiful as well. But the world building and animation used doesn’t really compare, does it?
I wonder why people don’t make the same argument for sports players. "It’s just [previous champion] who looks different. Yeah it’s totally different but like… is it totally different? Yes, it is, one is subjective one is objective. This comparison blows.
Food? We invented putting things on bread and have been doing variations of it since. All pretty similar, but also, a million different types. Bread and some filling / topping.
Anyway yeah the first movie is more or less Pocahontas. But like. I don’t see how that matters. It does explain why the second sucked in comparison though. Doing something that has been already established to work but improving on it is the thing.
I only hope they go back from Jakesully family man to at least some semblance of heroes journey in the third. Maybe it’ll be one of his kids idk.
Anyway No spoilers for 3 guys I’m not watching the trailer or reading anything
I wonder why people don’t make the same argument for sports players.
surely you must see how nonsense this sentence is.
people make to same argument for other creative arts all the time. books, music, painting. programming, even.
also, that thing where “everything is the hero’s journey” is based on skewed data. it’s not actually that prevalent.
Oh, “creative arts”? Like… subjective things? Unlike sports, in which there’s usually an objective scoring system. Wish I had thought about that.
Oh wait I did yes.
it’s not actually that prevalent.
In modern books? Probably not.
But in general? Yah, it is.
we both know that’s not what i was referring to. i’m talking things like intellectual properly rights. also, there are plenty of subjectively judged sports.
But in general? Yah, it is.
one major criticism of the monomyth theory is that it relies, perhaps subconsciously, on confirmation bias. many classic works that have been called monomyth-conforming only fit that mold when you ignore stuff that doesn’t fit, stuff that in some cases completely change the context of the other beats.
folklorist Barre Toelken, in an essay from 1996, wrote
Campbell could construct a monomyth of the hero only by citing those stories that fit his preconceived mold, and leaving out equally valid stories… which did not fit the pattern
Now it’s just semantics about how much story structure we have.
I’m not saying it’s the “hero’s journey” every time, but if you for instance look at Dan Harmon’s story circle — which is very much based on the monomyth — you’ll see how those apply to pretty much all narrative stories. Not all, but most.
It’s just the form we seem to like or which at least works well enough.
Also saying “we both know that…” online is a bit naive.
i personally go with the most charitable interpretation, trying to figure out what people mean rather than assuming that the text as written, no matter how incongruous to the rest of their argument so far, is exactly what they meant. but you do you.
I think it made so much money at the box office because it was so visually stunning (for the time) and no one had made a movie like that at that point. It was very much a movie everyone said to go watch on the big screen in 3D, ideally IMAX 3D. I never did and only watched it on a DVD borrowed from my wife’s friend 6 or 7 years ago, and came away less impressed. Like, it’s fine, but the movie itself isn’t exactly the greatest story ever told, and the visuals, while groundbreaking at the time, are now pretty standard.
It’s shit except the visuals
It’s not “shit.” That’s just an over correction to its relative success for its mediocrity. Excluding the visuals, it’s fine. It’s not stellar, not terrible, just… fine. Simple. There are plenty of worse movie plots, dialogue and acting out there. It’s nowhere near unwatchable.
It’s a vehicle for the visuals and technology showcasing on a basic film frame, yes. But, it’s allowed to be really good at one thing and appreciated for that.
Like a plain chip in some bomb-ass dip. You could’ve scooped it on a dirty shoe and someone would have licked it clean. But, you gave me a plain chip instead, which is better… even if boring. So, thanks.
The writing sucks, the acting is ok, the plot is incoherent, the characters are shallow.
It’s a shit movie except the pretty pictures.
Agree to disagree.
Its a franchise built solely on spectacle, by a man who knows spectacle.
Are we not going to talk about the fact that the logo uses something that is almost identical to the Papyrus font?
Nyeh-heh-heh
“I KNOW WHAT YOU DID!!”
You’re assuming there are people who remember what the logo looks like.
People think it’s so cool to shit on this series and have nothing to say about the Marvel dogshit lol
They pushed ocean sims to the max in the last one, I enjoy watching cgi/vfx idrc about the plot, also the naavi are hot, tall alien baddies when
The game isn’t good. Triple AAA or not.
That’s not what I said
I didn’t say you did. I was merely stating an opinion.
Idk, I like the big special effects rollercoasters that James Cameron and Co. have made.
The first time he flies a banshee in the first movie is a pretty cool scene, the battle in the floating mountains was badass, and the sheer scale of everything on Pandora is incredible to see (even if it’s all CGI).
The second one was still a CGI rollercoaster that was fun to watch. I liked Spider cause he was actually kinda badass. The underwater scenes were spectacular to watch and there was more world building with the water navi.
I’ll be interested to see what these other new navi are like and how they fit into everything else. The trailer makes it look like they’re going to partner with the RDA somehow. I kinda want to know why.
deleted by creator
They also want to colonise the planet. Can’t really do that if it’s in pieces.
deleted by creator
Eyup. Pretty much. There was something about Pandora being the only planet with life they found, and since Earth cannot sustain life anymore…
This was explained in the second movie.
deleted by creator
The Moon isn’t a pressurised environment with a full ecosystem. And considering how developed and gridlocked Earth is, and that interstellar travel is possible, why do you assume the moon hasn’t already been colonised?
Or Mars? Or Titan?
An artificial ecosystem doesn’t, and will never, compare to an organically evolved one.
deleted by creator
Yes, but the last ship/vessel designated “O’Neil” was exploded to stop the Replicators. :P
Nah. Even if you had the ability to shatter a planet (it would take a lot more mass hitting the planet than that of every automobile ever made) it would just clump back together after a while because, ya know, gravity. And now you’ve sloshed everything around in a molten mess so it’s even harder to process.
