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I’m probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don’t seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I’ve heard) pretty decently: https://furilabs.com/
Biggest drawback is it’s based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn’t worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I’ve variously seen online over the last year or so:
- https://clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-flx1-actually-usable-linux-phone.gmi
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41839326
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1fa1ljn/furilabs_flx1/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j46f2w/flx1_linux_phone_display_out/
- https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/03/furiphone_flx1/
I don’t own one, myself, so I can’t give any personal experience but I’ve seen it around for a few years now but most people don’t seem to even know about it. Maybe there’s a reason for that? But none I’ve ever seen anyone say.
Intriguing! I’m concerned about the “advanced power management algorithms” they’re putting up front and center without clarifying. My current phone (OnePlus) is very aggressive about that and just kills my alarm clock in the middle of the night once in a while and breaks other apps, even with optimizations disabled and the phone plugged in. Furiphone isn’t listed on DontKillMyApp and I didn’t see anything with a quick search, have you heard anything about how it does on that?
Also that size, oof. Mine is already too big and this is noticeably bigger in all 3 dimensions.
Ooof; yeah: that’d be a dealbreaker for me, too. I’ve got a OnePlus, as well (Nord N20), and, while I can definitely tell there’s some battery optimization going on, it’s never killed my alarms; it’s the only alarm clock I use so somewhat vital.
Unfortunately, I haven’t heard anything (yet). Most of anything I’ve heard about them has been from “static” sources (like the above); I don’t hang out in any chatrooms or the like they may have. I do know they have an account on the Fediverse, though (@furilabs@fosstodon.org), so you may be able to ask them directly?
Nice, thanks for the tip.
Unfortunately I think the size might be the deal breaker though, just remembered how my current one literally only fits in my pocket if I rotate it in at the exact right angle. 8 extra mm in both directions and there’s no hope.
I’m not ready for pants shopping again already, taking these ones in took 10 hours T_T
I dunno if sufficiently so but their new model is smaller and thinner, comparatively: https://furilabs.com/shop/flx1s/
Loses the removable battery and headphone jack (sadly), though; but you do gain hardware switches and an extra 2GiB of RAM.
Dope, thanks!
I have a Ulefone, which is too small of a brand for there to be much specific guidance on how to counter some of the unwelcome power management stuff
I can’t decide if that name is amazing or very unfortunate.
Is it pronounced “Furry Phone” or “Fury Phone?”
Because one of those is much better than the other. I’ll let my fellow Lemmings guess which I prefer.
OS is FuriOS if that helps you out of that knot.
I’ve read this as “Fury O.S.” dozens of times before now but your subtle implication has fixed that, thank you.
Tap for spoiler
Furious
Glass i could clear things up 😂
You can’t sideload in Linux. Not unless you have a PHD in computer engineering.
The “reasonable case” is the law, and they will use it against you without mercy
That’s a moron take. Plenty of people have no business downloading random apps. It takes all of 15 seconds with a Google search to side load. It’s a fucking idiot test.
But yeah I’m sure if this check weren’t there people would flock to fdroid 🙄
I think this is referring to recent news that google is trying to ban non-google-play installs (aka: sideloading)
Well that’s different. Blocking side loading is insane. But that post is missing context unless you’re following that closely.
But they would use the Play store wouldn’t they. They’re not going to use the “dark web” (aka beyond the first 5 entries on a Google search).
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I totally disagree. Not because I don’t think like this person does but because I watched us all go from Napster days until now and I 100% anticipate that people who think like this person will be eventually snuffed out by the people advocating against AI. Why I supported AI so much was the idea that it would push for more laws that allowed developers to iterate off each others work. Seeing the push back from AI opponents and also that we live in a world of content creators using the internet to supplement their lifestyle is a recipe to kill any open source community. It is only a matter of time. It will be a death by 1000 paper cuts.
That is an absolutely wild take
In the valley of the blind
Pardon my ignorance, but would loading a forked version of android (like lineageOS or grapheneOS) get around this? I know graphene at least puts all Google services in its own container. Would that allow the rest of the system to run “side loaded” apps? Or is this unavoidable if you use any version based on android?
Larger issue at hand is the number of devices that are able to install / are currently supported by those projects.
Even something like unlocking a bootloader is a daunting task for an average someone who’s even considering flashing a custom rom.
Considering regional variants of phones (looking at you Samsung) making this an even higher and more confusing task for the average someone.
The littering of tools for specific devices, requiring running on specific operating systems, the list goes on as far as hurdles to load a more open operating system on a phone.
It’s like that quote, “you can fool some people some of the time, but you can’t fool all people all of the time”- thing is, they don’t have to. They fool most of the people most of the time, and that is all they need to impose their agenda. The fringe cases, like people rooting and installing alternative OS’s, don’t matter if 99% of the world’s population go along with whatever the corps dictate. The sheer inertia of that will keep pulling the tech where they want it to go, as global industry pulls the same way.
It’s absolutely crook, I love my pixel but I’m not quite ready to wipe all contents, lose NFC payments and some application functionality.
Most of what I do with my phone only requires internet access, and a portable 5g modem is somewhat easy to come by. I don’t play gamesor use many apps (home assistant, Lemmy, grayjay and a web browser) so for the most part I feel losing calls (or finding a workaround) won’t be the worst thing that’s happened.
x86 handheld consoles are becoming more popular, wonder how far that tech can be pushed before we have a phablet / phone sized device. Actually… Didn’t Intel have some CPUs ages ago in phones that were x86?
I guess for me moving away from a pocket device and having a small Bluetooth handset tethered to something like a tablet / laptop would be a reasonable compromise.
Cause at this point, I’m considering loading Ubuntu touch on here
Yes. Those who already don’t give a shit about google will be unaffected.
What is this post even saying? It’s a completely reasonable word and it predates Android. There’s no reason to force a negative connotation on it
I can only hope the EU will set Google straight, the way they did Apple.
Considering:
A) You can still install any app you want beyond the Play Store (the rule is that developers need to get all their apps signed, and doesn’t effect the end user technically)
And
B) Its most likely being done because of the EU, it’s a part of the DSA (https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-services-act_en). The “trader status”, and other parts against illegal content)
The EU most like has already set them straight and this is the result.
Signed by who? Google? If so how does that not basically give them a monopoly on what can be installed?
And what about privacy? If somone wants to build an app to help whistleblowers, they have to expose themselves to a shady shitty mega Corp like Google?
Also why? Every other week there is some article about malicious apps leaking into the playstore. If they can’t even control their own store, why would they police everything.
The EU will, at some point, cave to the interest of global capital. I am proud that they have fought as well as they have these past few decades, but as long as capitalism rules the planet, capital will always supersede rule of law and democracy in the end.
America is about to, if it has not already, succumb completely to that state of affairs, and once that power is consolidated by the capital, EU will be (one of) the next targets.
Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware. There are other concerns that are bigger motivators for Google, but the ability to lock shit down can help control security issues.
Most people can’t get the software they run on their devices. The idea of “you can trust me, bro” is fucking dumb, even in the open-source world. This helps nerf this for the stupid people who buy this shit. It’s a priority because there are more stupid people willing to buy a product and put up with its bullshit than there are smart people willing to put in the effort themselves.
But also money.
Well there actually is a problem this can help solve. Malware.
Most of the malware on Android is already on the Play Store. I mean that both in a snarky and sarcastic fashion, but also literally.
This is unfortunately true. I’m not saying this is something that will stop all malware or that I even like the damn thing. But it does have some valid uses.
But it does have some valid uses.
In principle I disagree. This is more of Google asserting control. Maybe it would be legitimate if the Play Store wasn’t an absolute mess, but I’d probably disagree even then.
As a user who paid for the hardware, you should expect to have full control of your device, including the option to install your own software from alternative sources, or even replace the OS. Google, Samsung, et al aren’t paying you for the device, it’s yours. The only reason I can see here is for more end user control and yet more personal data mining.
I only marginally excuse Apple and iOS because it was a walled garden up front and they’ve made no qualms about it, you know what you’re buying. They’ve also implemented at least some debate of user privacy and limiting data sharing.
Google released Android originally as a fairly open system and have been tightening the reins as they’ve achieved market dominance.
That’s absolutely a motivator for Google but simply leaving things open ended also means they can’t enforce anything at all.
Scammer: -releases scammer shady product- Google: we don’t want you using our products to scam users. We are blocking this. Scammer: fine, I’ll throw it on an alt store and create errors when it’s run on an unmodified device. I’ll just require users switch to scamROM. Google: fine, we’ll let you in the play store.
See? There’s no winning here.
No, the answer there is if scammers release scammy software and it’s not on the Play Store, that’s it. They’ve done their part and my job is to not be a tool and be careful if I’m sideloading, use things like VirusTotal, or otherwise just not install software that’s not vetted or open source where I can review the code. Nothing forces a user to use “ScamROM” or whatever example.
I don’t want Google policing my activity on my device.
I don’t want it either but you and I are not their only customers. We aren’t even in the majority of their customers. Most users want a Skinner box to look at porn and cat videos. That’s who Google is prioritizing.
It should be as easy to do as enabling developer options on your android. Tap a certain thing several times in a row and it unlocks it, permanently.
But then you have the user problem. Convince the user to bypass a security function for you and it won’t stop you. It’s really easy to trick users.
They can piss off, there is no way I’m dowloading Google’s ad ridden garbage apps of of their store. I’d rather stop using mobile phones alltogether
The worst part is, the vast majority of people will opt in by default, and when 99% of people do, that impetus will pull everything else in together with it. Us privacy and liberty minded fringe cases won’t matter, because the tech will keep moving in whatever direction is dictated by the giants because they will have ensnared the global population in their schemes, and it will pull us along with the drift.
It’s pretty god damned bleak. We need to seriously organize and coordinate resistance.
Same. Or keeping a shitty one around just for emergencies
You know, it’s true - I have never heard a Linux user refer to something as sideloading, even though Linux is the platform that originated official software repositories.
The key thing to understand is that there’s a big fucking difference between a “repository” and an “app store.” One is designed for the convenience of users; the other is designed to exploit them.
Exactly right. The message of the post is that “side-loading” is only used in reference to exploitation services. We could just as easily refer to side loading in Linux and it would be accurate in every way, except that there is no exploitation.
It’s literally the exception that proves the rule.
There is no functional difference.
This does feel like a bit of a double-standard to me. I’ve hated how Microsoft and Apple have introduced app stores on Windows and macOS and try to push people to only install from there instead of directly from the developer. And yet on Linux the advice seems to be never ever download directly from the developer; you should only download from the package repository provided by your OS (which sure feels like an App Store). And that package probably wasn’t even provided by the developer or the OS but some random volunteer that you just assume has good intentions.
If you used Linux before the repos were fully developed then you understand why they were created.
Who else remembers “dependency hell?”
Corpos just took the same idea and twisted it into something else.
Dependency hell was what drove me back to Windows. Fortunately, I didn’t stay there and I learned how to apt-get.
I measured the heights of myself and my niece and found them to be different, clearly a double standard must be involved.
You yourself mentioned a lot of differences between corporate app stores and distros’ software repositories. Why are you surprised people rate them differently?
Perhaps because your standards are different from more Linux users’ standards.
I for example would rather take my chances with a random volunteer rather than trust a corporation that had a history of breaking laws and I know it to want to make money off me.
Nothing ever comes “directly from the developer”, and any developer that attempts to do so ends up in a level of hell not yet documented. There are way too many distros, way too many architectures, way too many moving targets, that also includes iOS, macOS and Windows. No single developer can hit them all. There’s no standard packaging either. So, usually they only package for one or a handful of popular distros, or one container format. But that’s the magic of FOSS. Anyone can take the source code and repackage it, redistribute it and make it available for others. This is assumed to be a strength and not a weakness of FOSS and Linux. Thus, the distros create their own official repositories where they make themselves responsible that everything will mostly work nicely with one another.
The difference is that package repositories are safe havens of compatibility. While appStores are enforced cages that cannot be escaped. If a package repository tries to fuck up with users, hurt the FOSS space (looking at you Ubuntu Snaps), or gets compromised by a bad actor; you just move to another repository, another distro, a different format, another safe space. If Android or Apple decides to enshittify and fuck over customers, users, get compromised or do something to hurt developers, you are fuck out of luck. This difference matters.
Because the Linux repositories are apathetic third parties (ie they have no reason to care whether or not you download any given app) while Microsoft and apple are financially incentivised for you to buy buy buy.
This means that when you download a .exe from a vendor instead of going through the windows store you’re cutting Microsoft out of their cut of what you paid and you’re denying Microsoft information about what it is that you bought. But the flipside is Microsoft didn’t impartially verify that it’s not malicious.
When you download a .deb instead of going through apt, you’re also denying them their cut (of nothing) and you’re denying the repository managers the ability to see what you’re doing, but Linux people generally trust repository managers to not be selling their habits to advertisers and governments.
I will say there is a reason to side load on Linux though, paid software is sometimes unavailable through repos.
My package manager installs all of the dependencies the program needs and takes care of updates, too. If I install directly from the developer, I have to do all that myself. Fuck that.
The key difference is that one is advised, the other is enforced.
And yet on Linux the advice seems to be never ever download directly from the developer
That’s just advice for making life easy for new people, because distro-packaged software is more likely to work well with the operating system. I run packages from devs, even nightly automated builds of stuff, all the time.
It may feel like a double standard but it’s not
Most Linux stores are created and maintained by volunteers
Those stores aren’t limiting software they host based on what makes them the most money. Money isn’t involved.at all
Linux won’t stop you from adding more stores
Linix won’t stop you from manually adding any other software, either as a package or even manually building it from scratch
And yet on Linux the advice seems to be never ever download directly from the developer
Are people really giving this advice that often and that strongly? I find myself building more and more things from source these days. Especially with modern languages that OS maintainers are actually having a difficult time packaging in the way they’re used to.
B-b-but brand integrity! Customers love that! (Shareholders too)
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You own nothing and will be happy is not a communist idea, it’s the endgame of capitalism for 99.9% of the people.
We really really need an open OS for mobile phones that is actually competitive with commercial offerings.
Doesn’t android allow this?
That’s what the OP is referring to: Google just announced they will do their best to kill off sideloading.
I had no idea. Damn…
didn’t apple just get forced to enable side loading in the EU due to the DMA?
Yeah, but I think they implemented the same restrictions Google is planning, so I’m not very helpful that EU is gonna stop Google…
I don’t think the OS is the problem - it’s that some of the critical service/apps people rely on (government ID, banking) only exist for the closed systems. Third party OS’s try to “solve” it through various container approaches running the official apps, but since they see that as a security problem it’s not something you can fully trust to be working at all times.
That’s the only reason I’m still on android. If I install a different OS I won’t be able to login to do anything government related. I won’t even be able to pay with my credit card online. I could get a physical code device from the government, but I’m not gonna lie, I really like the ease of access of having an app for that stuff, instead of a seperate device I have to have on me at all times.
I will probably have to go the route of two phones soon. One for my stuff and communicating with friends and family, and one (maybe one of the cheaper iphones?) for all the “required” apps.
Funny enough, you tend to see quite some people in China do this. I wonder why.
This. Alternative OS exist: Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS, SailfishOS, just to name a few.
What is missing are the apps people want. And those include mostly commercial apps, where the developers need to weigh dev hours vs profits, and decide to only target the big two for obvious reasons. That is the key problem.
All those “apps” are websites. You could say NFC is special, but so is gps.
To be fair, a lot of those depend on some client side trust. Which is conceptually stupid, but it is the way it is.
Exactly. Locking basic services behind apps should be illegal. Services must be accessible to everyone.
Yea… Like some of those parking applications. Ugh.
same goes for the weather app …
(context: some years ago they locked the publicly-funded german weather service’s API, so common people can’t access it anymore. you need to use a spam-ridden app to access it now.)
At the very least you can still pay a small one-time fee for the DWD WarnWetter app (or enter a code for firefighters).
Best 3€ I’ve ever spent purely out of spite, even if the reason behind it is complete BS.
They sometimes hand out codes “to be used only by firefighters and paramedics, wink wink”.
I think they’re both pretty big problems. An open OS and hardware that supports it seems to be a huge hurdle, but at least there is a clear vision of how to solve it. The problem you bring up though… It seems like we’ve almost gone too far at this point and it’s gonna be really hard to put the cat back in the bag. It seems like something we need to solve with legislation potentially?
The people writing the legislation are the same people who don’t see a problem with a government-furnished app using Play Integrity
Yes there is a general ignorance to this problem among law makers, in my country at least, as well as a bit of regulatory capture with respect to tech in general. The boogie man of “security” is also a very persuasive concept for a lot of people. This is not a problem that will be solved easily.
They claim this is about security but when your system is compromised there is fuck all they will do to help you.
Fucking hypocritical, control-hungry pricks.
It’s about the security of their brand. No sane company wants people walking around, talking about shit their phone is because it keeps getting infected.
Well, the only instances I know of modern phones getting infected are Apple devices where a text message somehow gets into the kernel with zero clicks. Apparently apple insists they’re too incompetent to fix this.
Some of these comments are wild.
The OS should not at all stop me from doing what I want to do. Ever. Not even if that means I can fuck it up.
They can warn me when I attempt to do things that could fuck shit up. They can make it a bit harder to navigate to certain things so I’m less likely to fuck shit up. But it’s my god damn hardware. I should be able to run and configure the software on it as I see fit.
meh both on mac and windows you’re not the true admin of the machine. mac requires disabling SIP and some others to even be able to delete default applications for example and don’t get me started on windows. linux ftw (as I type this from my old ass ios device)
I think that just falls under “make it a bit harder to navigate to certain things so I’m less likely to fuck shit up.”
you can get all the right you need with a little trickery. I mean, psexec is made and distributed by Microsoft, freely. a simple download. and I don’t think it’s bad that the average user can’t run everything immediately as TrustedInstaller or SYSTEM.
that’s a nice option to have, at least. i’ve s few more complaints left for each OS, but in the end i’d prefer a linux style and level of control over a machine and overall less abstraction. we’re getting software locked out most hardware nowadays: cars, household appliances, public transit, airports, privacy and so on
To be clear, Kolanaki is saying that that is not how an OS should behave.
oh yea I agree I was just venting further; prefer less hand holding
And on any Intel hardware the true root account belongs to NSA anyway.
Have you people never worked in IT support? Like its all fair and good that you, a power user, dont want the OS to restrict you at all. But for your averrage person to be treated the same is just asking for disaster.
A hidden option to unlock power user mode solves this
Yeah exactly. Though i would personally say a bit more obfuscation is needed then a simple hidden switch.
Don’t hide it. That’s pointless. Make it so someone has to type “I understand what I’m doing and my username is blah” into a box to activate “advanced” mode, after reading a warning, sure.
I don’t disagree, but it’s very funny that LinusTechTips went through that exact process a moment before publically destroying his desktop on PopOS
Right, but pretty much everyone but Linus and his sycophants agree that was a bone headed mistake. If you type “I understand what I am doing…” and you do not understand- you are asking for trouble.
Granted, that bug shouldn’t have existed in the first place but I feel like the warning should have raised a big red flag for a ‘tech expert’. It almost feels like he did it on purpose to prove some sort of point about how Linux ‘isn’t there yet’ but ofc there is no way to prove that.
I have worked in IT. People still manage to screw up shit that’s locked down. Babysitting everyone because some people are just technologically incompetent is stupid and does not solve any actual problems.
Can’t IT lock things down if they so desire? That is the owner of the device using it as they see fit: Locking it down so the non technical users of the device can’t break it. That you keep suggesting that devices should come out of the box restricted would make your IT job obsolete and in fact impossible to perform.
Edit: And before you ask yes I have worked in IT support, although I currently do not.
Not corporate IT, but IT for home users, back in the days when things were much less locked down basically every computer i got access too was completely crawling with malware. Had tons of people lose all of their data including family photos and the like because they dowloaded something dodgy off limewire and their system just let them run it.
Why cant you guys understand that the vast vast majority of computer users are not technical? And as such need those safety rails in place to save them from their own ignorance?
Most Android phone owners don’t even know they are Android phone owners.
We’ll always need safety rails, I think the thing you’re missing in most of the arguments you’re seeing here is that people want ways over or around those safety rails, and that those safety rails do not need to be as strict as they’re becoming. That is not the case currently and that is definitely not the direction AOSP or iOS are interested in going.
Also, just for the record, comparing the modern era of computing to the limewire era is bananas.
Is that not what sideloading is? A way over the safety rails?
Not at all. Root access would be a way over safety rails.
Also the context of this post is that Google is attempting to make “side loading” harder.
Exactly.
I have no problem with safety rails for those who need it, my problem is that with each passing update these rails become obligatory and non-removable.
they are crawling with malware today, from the factory, except it is harder to remove, especially on smartphones.
safety rails are not steal walls. instead of walls education is needed. education can happen not only in schools.
“Why isn’t x working! I set x on my [insert device here] and now it won’t turn on!”
From a personal freedom POV, I agree. But, if it was easy it would be a support nightmare.
Google and Apple scan every app that gets loaded into their app stores for malware. There’s also a lengthy review process, even just for updates. Some malware does still slip through, but it’s a trickle compared to what gets blocked. If sideloading apps were easy, my younger sister would be in so much trouble. She’d have various accounts phished within a day. She’d install something that drains the battery within an hour and not understand what was going wrong. And, she’s relatively tech savvy. I have no idea how the older generation would survive.
Of course, since Apple and Google make 30% of every sale on the app store, they’re not purely motivated to just keep their users safe. The real problem is that there is a duopoly in smartphones. Apple and Google have essentially the same policies, and if you don’t like them you have no other options. If there were a dozen OSes, there could be smart phones for Granny that had everything locked down, and smart phones for h4x04z that didn’t. Companies that struck a good balance between protecting their users and allowing their users freedom would do well in the market. Companies that didn’t would shrink and fail.
Sure, but there’s a good argument that that should be an end-user issue, and not something that the OS/Phone manufacturer should be trying to mitigate. It’s a risk you take when owning a device, that you can also break it, or get it infected.
Otherwise, why bother selling the phone in the first place, rather than contracting it out under a rental agreement?
my younger sister would be in so much trouble.
your younger syster should have parental controls on, and it’s worrying that you suggest it is not the case. I don’t know their age but most probably they shouldn’t be able to install any apps from anywhere without parent approval.
She’d have various accounts phished within a day.
guessing fron what we already know, she probably shouldn’t have half of those accounts.
My younger sister is in her 40s. She’s a pretty typical cell phone user.
in that case parental controls would still solve a lot of problems, including this one
I think your parents should turn on their parental controls because you’re going a bit wild, buddy.
oh don’t worry daddy google will turn it on for all of us thanks to the deranged irresponsibility of your kind.
if someone is so tech illiterate that they are breaking the phone’s software and leaking their information all over the internet, they cannot be responsibly allowed to use that device without restrictions.
I bet you are one of those that want forced government ID based age verification everywhere because you agree with people who can’t be bothered to set limits on their kids phone.
K
So? Don’t run fishy files off the internet unless you’re open to the risks. Have secure walls that require either a setting change or individual permission grants before they can access secure apps.
Operating systems are prone to natural monopoly or duopoly. Furthermore there’s anti consumer incentives here in that governments want surveillance data and os companies sell it.
Where competition fails to protect consumers governments must. And that includes protection from governments. I know it’s ironic today as we’re in a fascist regime, but that’s one of the basic principles of my country. So anyways please Europe protect us worldwide consumers from American companies.
But we subsidised the cost of your phone so we could make sweet sweet recurring revenue off your usage habits and targeted advertising!
You wouldn’t want to take that away from us would you? Won’t SOMEBODY think of the shareholders?!
I’m getting really sick of products being only available subsidized by a level of invasiveness that should be illegal.
The government should need an individualized warrant to purchase my data. And honestly Google should need one to collect it
I’m getting really sick of products being only available subsidized by a level of invasiveness that should be illegal.
You mean like smart TVs?
An early metastase of the cancer.
I realise you’re being facetious, but if anything Google made my phone more expensive with the certification process.
