Glad to see that people distinguish socialism and communism.
Captain Brainworm will protect you from those evil doctors.
Also, the graphic clearly shows 18 - 29 but Mr. Sauer says “18 - 39.” Let’s socialize the education up in here.
I do like the idea that they went around and asked people their age and if they said over 29 they went nope your opinion is invalid and walked away.
I’m assuming the reason that it’s broken down like this is so they can show generational differences but I have to say I’m in my mid 30s and I’d like some socialism I’m not sure why the cutoff date had to be 29. Are there other slides where this information is provided?
Pretty sure the cutoff age is 29 cause gen z is defined as 1997-2012
But 16 years ago, democrats gave us watered-down heritage foundation health policy and haven’t done shit since! Gen Z are clearly a bunch of ingrates.
If I recall correctly, they didn’t have enough votes for single-payer and passed the compromise that they could get done .
Single payer was never on the table, (and if centrists have their way it never will be) and the public option was a bill of goods designed to be jettisoned from the outset.
They had a supermajority. Like always, they find enough no votes.
The original plan for ACA had a single-payer option.
The compromised ACA itself passed the house only by a couple votes. The party is not a monolith and had a number of moderates that opposed single-payer.
The original plan for ACA had a single-payer option.
Like hell it did.
The compromised ACA
The version they always intended to pass.
The party is not a monolith
They expect the voters to vote as a bloc but won’t do so themselves.
and had a number of moderates that opposed single-payer.
No matter how big a majority democrats have, they always find just enough no votes.
You’re arguing against well-known historical fact. You have a lot of emotional angst getting in the way of your judgment and understanding of nuance.
The public option was not single payer. It also was never meant to be in the final bill. It was the bargaining chip they were dangling to negotiate with the republicans. When the republicans showed themselves to be unmoveable, they had to get Lieberman to play the part to get rid of it.
Your article doesn’t back up your ridiculous lie that single payer was the original plan for the ACA.
Also, gaslighting is abuse, and it’s no surprise that the republican-adjacent wing of the party resorts to it so quickly.
It’s Manchin, straight up. And then Ted Kennedy died and they lost the supermajority and had to pass what the Senate had already voted on because anything different would be filibustered.
It was lieberman and nelson. manchin hadn’t rotated in yet.
You’re right, and let’s not forget the Franken recount that lasted until June. So a very brief window to get stuff done.
The country gave them a supermajority and then the bar became “Well you didn’t give us every seat in congress so womp womp.”
Just more bullshit. In no universe does either major party want to lose out on the health insurance confidence scheme bribe money.
The county met them on their nearly impossible terms which a supermajority is, we met our end. they’re just bullshit artists running a con just like the Republican fascists.
Don’t forget that ever since the other side has been trying to tear down that watered down version too, so what little people are given is always under threat of being removed
And the side that passed it doesn’t seem to give much of a shit about protecting it. But lord will they act like it’s the “everything is perfect forever act” if someone expects them to do anything.
Ratchet Effect baby, Ratchet Effect!
It’s funny how so many of the policies of Eisenhower - a Republican - are too much to the Left for the present day Democrat Party.
62% in favor of socialism, 34% in favor of communism, 4% in favor of liberalism/fascism?
It’s asking for sentiment individually, not a zero-sum choice.
Another thing to keep in mind is that many in America earnestly view Donald Trump as their chosen leader/ticket to ‘socialism’ that helps them.
Not a meaningful number. Accelerationists are just a spook libs on lemmy use so they can avoid engaging with the left by just accusing them of secretly wanting republicans to win.
at least faux news took the effort of separating communism and socialism, as they often use those terms as they mean the same
“That’s what a dirty commie would say!” shakes athritis-riddled fist in pain
takes arthritis pills covered by medicare
for now
“They don’t want to work! They just want to be lazy!” Proceeds to watch 14 hours of fox news while occasionally napping on the couch.
Of what use, then, are the American Communists?
They serve one function extremely useful to you and to the country, so useful that, if there were no Communists, we would almost be forced to create some. They are a reliable litmus paper for detecting real sources of danger to the Republic.
Communism is so repugnant to almost all Americans, when they are getting along even tolerably well, that one may predict with certainty that any social field or group in which the Communists make real strides in gaining members or acceptance of their doctrines, any such spot is in such bad shape from real and not imaginary social ills that the rest of us should take emergency, drastic action to investigate and correct the trouble.
Unfortunately we are more prone to ignore the sick spot thus disclosed and content ourselves with calling out more cops.
–Robert A. Heinlein, Take Back Your Government
Oh my God, we’ve finally yelled at Americans on the internet enough that after A H U N D R E D F U C K I N G Y E A R S conservatives are vaguely aware that there’s some linguistic difference!
It does work, guys!
They get confused because they’re so used to conflating capitalism with fascism, because that’s what they want fascism but call it capitalism to make it more palatable. Fortunately they’re utterly shit at selling the idea.
Last year there was the national conservatives conference, attended by right wing nut cases the world over, and it was like attending in 1920s Nazi rally. That’s not hyperbole, it was literally like that, the same fat idiots vaguely wondering around without a clue what they were espousing, interspersed with the occasional bright spark who was actually pushing it all.
Plus, this is simply a poll of “what’s your favorability of the word we use to say something is when we don’t we don’t like the thing?”
I thought “tankie” was the new “commie” but maybe that’s just for DNC true believers because calling people with even the slightest leftwing ideas or who are skeptical of the political propaganda from the US a “Communist”, is too obvious Red Scare-style Propaganda and unlike the fans of the outright Fascist party, the fans of the Fascism-adjacent party actually care about keeping up appearances.
Capitalism is the best marketing socialism has ever had.
Bro with nazi dogwhistles as username and a pp from a stock site posting Fox News screen
I miss goods olds psyops when their were at least pretending to target intelligence
How is a
SwedishSwiss gun company and a date 75 years before Hitler was born a Nazi dogwhistle?Fox News viewer choosing a foreign company name accidentaly having two S as initial. Then because of the first 1417 peoples having the same idea put the numbers meaning ADolf and Adolf Hitler in every fucking nazi band since the 70’s
Totally not another right wing militant farming engagement on socials networks
That’s borderline numerology. He’s obviously a right-wing dipshit, but you’re just looking for dogwhistles instead of calling him out for what he’s actually saying.
I think they are learning about how much stuff costs and just went: “You know what, screw the stuff they teach at school, lets try X political system”
Like I doubt they even understand different political systems such as socialism, its just they are so fed up with the current system, they just don’t care anywmore and are willing to try any alternatives.
But they don’t actually know what alternative is good, so that’s why you also see some of them go towards the alt-right pipeline, as you can see with Gen Z Men voting for trump
They also don’t have good, compelling reasons to stay with the current system. They’re not getting much out of it, and the “oh, but the computer you’re making this on was created under capitalism” isn’t that compelling of an argument, especially when the alternative is choosing between eating, and buying the medication that stops your blood turning into acid.
The whole “system of true opportunity, where the best and brightest can shine” rings hollow when you’re working multiple jobs to survive, no matter how smart you are, and it feels like you’re extorted at every opportunity.
Yes indeed. For a lot of people it’s as easy as “current system bad, let’s try this other thing” and then they rationalize it somehow.
Personally I don’t think we have figured the right system out yet. And due to technological, economical and cultural development what worked best previously will most likely not be the best system moving forward anyway.
I’m all for trying out new things and see what works. A lot of what we do now obviously isn’t working and there’s so much counterintuitive stuff that happens that I say we, the people of earth, just try a lot of things, we have enough countries and subcountries that there’s room to test even things that seems like nonsense to most people.
100%. I think what comes next won’t necessarily be a super fair utopia, just whatever can survive the CIA trying to shut it down… and hopefully it’s better for humans. We’re breeding the “antibiotic resistant bacteria” of economic systems.
The US healthcare system is proof that more Mario brothers are required.
My friend got cancer and she lost her job. Luckily her parents pay for her insurance out of pocket. Even the treatments are covered, she still needs to pay for copay and deductibles. This is America. When you are down, we kick you further down. No developed country does that except us
And yet the same people won’t consider living in a better place for some reason.
How can we move? Or roots are here. It is not that easy to move to another country.
Perhaps it will be easily to change people’s mind such as yours
Country depends on immigrant labor, citizens can’t imagine being an immigrant. Checks out.
You think it’s easy for people who are poor or in debt to uproot their lives and move to another country they have no connection to? People have families and other social ties they don’t want to leave behind as well.
Guess its not so bad then for most.
but you’re forgetting that the other countries tax you more when you are doing exceptionally. Policies like that lead to meritocracy and reduce everyone’s chances of getting a yacht.
Everyone’s chances of getting a yacht? You mean a small nu.ber of people?
yes, a chance to get a yacht. Similar to how everyone that buys a lottery ticket has a chance to win.
Americans would rather spend $20k a year on useless health insurance, just to make sure their taxes don’t accidentally pay for black and brown peoples healthcare…
Uh, plenty of Americans are black and brown
It’s just bigots being bigots.
Mostly missing the point here. Yes some minorities also voted against health care, but the overwhelming majority of votes comes from white conservatives and the victims are proportionally higher minorities. Most of these voters claim they’re not racists but the results are a great example of systemic racism.
The point is that “Americans” is a net that encompasses a lot of people, so generalizing like you’re doing is a hot garbage shortcut that smacks of the exact kind of xenophobic behavior you’re railing against.
I’m pretty sure even the white population are in favor of socialized healthcare. It’s just that the insurance companies spend a crap on of money lobbying our politicians to make sure it remains private so they can squeeze out every single penny from us. Oh. And other companies in general to make sure you don’t switch job easily
No they aren’t especially if you combine 40+ or men with that statement.
American Elites and conservative morons.
Not all Americans. The majority have wanted socialized Healthcare for a long time, but actual political results rarely match the popular opinion here.
At least 50% voted racism. There is no hiding behind the “Elites”.
Even the majority of republican voters want health care reform. It’s a cross-party issue, for sure. Trump even lied and said he had some beautiful, magical healthcare plan that’ll fix everything. People who believed him are clearly still idiots of course.
I am sick of this bullshit argument. The ‘majority’ of Republican voters can say whatever they want, but they vote for a party whose core values are against healthcare reform and will even take it away if another party tries to implement it. For 20 years or more voting republican has meant supporting racism and corporate interests above all else. Republican voters are getting exactly what they voted for. Stop trying to make them sound like victims.
It isn’t bullshit per se. It is by and large what they want when polled, but they’re too fucking stupid, too hung up on single issue voting, or too easily misled and naive and think the awful people they keep voting for will somehow not fuck them over some day
Follow the money. Find out which politicians resist healthcare and you’ll find who’s getting paid to resist it.
You are ignorant on this issue. Please do better before making generalized prejudice statements.
50% of what? Wasn’t his tally closer to 30% of gen pop?
The nonvoting assholes add up to more than 50%.
I’m not referring to votes, but basically every poll or survey that asks people about these ideas. Most Americans generally agree with and want universal healthcare.
Also, a lot of voters are single- or few-issue voters. With limited choices, some will just vote anyways closest to their beliefs. That doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with the full package.
And yet sweet racism/homophobia keeps them from demanding universal healthcare.
…and then piss and moan about fuel prices for their pick up trucks and SUVs with V8 motors.
Does Medicare really work?
At this point, just put 15k in a high interest account and only use it if you need to
Until you get some kind of chronic illness and run out of money after about three appointments, then I guess set up a go fund me? You are required to be stabilized but not treated.
That’s basically what an HSA is.
You sign up for a high deductible plan where you pay for your own medical expenses, but document them, up until you hit your out of pocket maximum ($8300 for individuals or $16600 for families), at which point your insurance kicks in to cover the catastrophic bills you typically won’t have in a typical year.
Meanwhile, you are eligible to contribute $4300 per year for individuals or $8750 for families into an HSA, which has very favorable tax treatment (pretax money deposited, not taxed when taken out for health expenses, even after growing a lot), and allows you to invest everything above the minimum cash balance (varies by provider, usually something like $1000 or $2000).
That way in a year you happen to hit a $1 million illness or injury you’re still covered against catastrophic financial loss, but you generally pay your own way with tax-deductible funds that you’re allowed to invest for growth.
There is also no time limit on bills that are eligible to be paid from HSA. So if you are able to, you can pay out of pocket now, keep a copy of the bill, and cash it in 15 years later.
Goes beyond even that.
At a certain point, you can invest it like a 401k. That’s a giveaway to the stock market. Eventually, you can withdraw it for anything in retirement.
Where a 401k is invested with tax-free money now but gets taxed later, and an IRA is invested with taxed money that doesn’t get taxed later, an HSA is invested tax-free AND doesn’t get taxed later.
What I’m saying is that it’s a giant tax dodge masquerading as a band-aid for a broken healthcare system.
Do what you need to for taking care of you and your family. Maxing out an HSA is generally your best option right now. But just keep in mind that this is a system that shouldn’t exist.
some employers contribute to your HSA, such as matching the amount you contribute each paycheck.
when you contribute to your HSA from each paycheck, that amount is not taxed.
it’s possible to withdraw cash at an ATM from your HSA account if you really need it. no one really stops you from doing this. I saw someone buy weed using cash they withdrew this way.
It still baffles me how some Americans will fight against universal healthcare, like ??? Do you WANT to be put in debt cuz you had an easily-treatable illness??? I don’t get it, honestly
Obviously, transsexuals are a bigger concern. They are educated from birth the US has a superior healthcare system (by every measure, it does not). They are told that a lifetime of debt means they are good Americans .Also, most voters just assume one day they will be billionaires and never get sick.
Yeah… it’s fucking stupid
My mom had a spinal fusion in the 90s which she got in debt for.
About 15 years ago my lung spontaneously collapsed. Several surgeries later, the bill was $315,000. I was on Obamacare because of the mandate, thank god. I paid $19.
My mom found out and told me I “deserved to go bankrupt” because people like her had struggled for so long with their medical bills.
I don’t speak to her anymore
It’s a cult.
I rlly don’t get ppl like ur mum… shouldn’t she be angry about being forced to pay extortionate amounts of money in the first place ??? Not at the poor person who got lucky ??? Jesus
Americans are willing to give up everything they own if it means some hypothetical strawman isn’t “mooching” off of their propaganda headcanon.
Success is suffering and hard work and if everyone isn’t suffering then life isn’t fair. Fuck this entire viewpoint, but it’s one of the main American traits ruining socialist ideals.
If you don’t own a million dollar yacht that you use as a tender for your billion dollar yacht you are the hypothetical straw man mooching off the tax dollars of those who do.
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I have had arguments on social media with Americans. They are A) deluded, believing that paying a monthly premium and still having a deductible, that can be denied, is awesome because its tge best plan avaipable. B) are I got mine types, who have stated they got private insurance because they don’t want to pay for other peoples health care (they clearly don’t understand how insurance works) C) don’t want their taxes to go up one smidge, even though putting every american into a universal system would save so much money and would barely be blip in their taxes.
They are under the impression that what’ll happen is that their paycheck will go down by the cost of universal healthcare per person because the costs are taken out via taxes. Then they hear that some people will get it who don’t pay taxes and they get indignant that they’re paying and someone else is getting. Then they think about the difficulties they have with our current system, and picture putting something like the DMV in front of it, since that’s what a lot of people have as their biggest reference for what the government does.
That’s all because someone has a vested interest in making sure they understand it wrong, and no one is going to make a lot of money off universal healthcare so there isn’t the same degree of motivation to teach people a more accurate understanding.
“Against” has billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs, and “for” has “human decency”, “efficiency” and “why are we doing this to ourselves”.People hear that your paycheck gets a bit bigger, you go to the doctor when you feel sick, bills are mainly to keep you from going to the doctor for free aspirin and are lower than your copay, and you just … don’t deal with the billing anymore and think that sounds unrealistic. Entirely missing that other countries have done it, that the government already has a medical billing system, and dealing with paperwork is something the government does even better than “moving stuff from one place to another”.
And then there’s other countries whose doctors still receive high wages… America just has a very selfish society in general, I’ve noticed. And, that paycheck argument they make is stupid, because if they have to pay off the debt then their wages will be a lot lower anyways?? Especially for more expensive operations (like transplants).
I honestly don’t have a lot to add, all of you replying to my comment have explained it perfectly. America’s run by idiots, for idiots www
I’d push back against idiots. It’s a little more complicated. It’s meticulously cultivated ignorance amongst many people, since that’s useful. People with money can help people with power maintain power if they help them make more money. So people with power have an incentive to keep people ignorant about things that threaten the bottom line (often. Some have principles and some see the electorate as a better way to maintain power. Obviously nuance exists)
So it’s not that the people who don’t support universal healthcare are always unintelligent, or that the leadership is. You’re not stupid for not understanding something you’ve never experienced, and only been told falsehoods about. It’s why intelligent people sometimes end up against it, and can jump through pretty significant mental hoops to justify that position: every experience says the belief is correct, and it agrees with what they were taught.
There’s a special experience that Americans sometimes get where they’ll travel to another country and get sick or injured. Depending on the country, they might be apologetically informed that because they don’t pay into the system they’ll need to pay full price for the procedure, only to be presented with a bill significantly lower than the fully insured price in the US. Or they just don’t get a bill, depending on the country. I’ve had this happen to two coworkers. One was given a bill for about $200 for a night in the hospital, antivirals, and several units of fluids and electrolytes. The person who presented the bill was adament that there should be a way to bring this down to something more reasonable. In the US that might be a $1000 bill with insurance.
Another had their kid break their arm on vacation, and when they tried to figure out how to pay the doctor just looked confused and asked why he thought they would charge to help a child in medical need. Said it made him realize how backwards our system has made everything, even though he already wanted universal healthcare. Seeing a system that actually put patient care first just felt weird.
Propaganda sold to us at an early age.
