You move like Dunning-Kruger, truth is overdone
A father like his son, look after number onePretty sure most lemmy users are up there. But now that I say that… could very well be wrong. Sorry everyone
most replies to my comments on here seem to think their are foolproof geniuses while espousing that there is no such thing is nuance or complexity in the world. there is only good (agree with them) or bad (disagree with them).
super big-brained thinking, that.
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That graph is shaped like a gun.
Please shoot me with it, I cant take any more of those smart people
Lol flat earthers
Welcome to the internet
I don’t think DK is really about intelligence but more on how averages work. I don’t know, I don’t have a degree in statistics just a basic biochem one.
Don’t discount yourself, I bet a lot of your education and research had to deal with statistics and deriving information from data. You’re practically using statistics
We see what you did there
The more I’ve learned about email while writing my own email server, the more I’ve realized I knew basically nothing about email when I started. Now, I’m at least somewhat knowledgeable, but god damn it’s so fucking complicated. Even something as seemingly straightforward as email has such a deep complexity that it takes years of study to even approach being an expert.
The single most useful thing I’ve learned doing this is that you should never assume you know a lot about a topic. There are a. always more things to learn, and b. always people who know more than you.
In many collectivistic societirs, humility is a virtue.
Job before that was like this. No one will believe me.
Family run, small business, run by well-off, conservative Southern Baptists. Sound like hell?
Admitting you made a mistake was a fucking virtue. You weren’t forgiven, your mistake was ignored, except for everyone teaming up to figure a way to not let it happen again. No names, nothing said, let’s figure it out.
I’ve never worked such a culture. My next job paid double. Fucked a thing up right off the bat, no big deal, was never trusted again. I could go on about that job, but on paper, it would sound like heaven. Had so much PTO I didn’t bother tracking it, WFH, dev company.
I’d crawl on my hands and knees to get my office back with the Southern conservatives. And no one, not once, asked me about my beliefs or asked me to church.
Used to work in a place like this earlier in my career. It was a multinational, but not in the US. I transferred to another unit within the company completely different culture. It’s a place by place kind of deal.
Running your own email server is a dark and lonely road that can only lead to crippling insanity. We can thank Google for that.
I’m definitely aware. I run an email service at https://port87.com/. Google is absolutely awful to deal with.
I have long said the only truly stupid people in the world are those who think that have nothing left to learn.
I like that line. I’m stealing it. Might paraphrase to fit the situation.
I did technical trainings, and I always used to say that the only stupid question is the one you don’t ask.
“All I know is that I know nothing”, Socrates.
With time I came to understand this as meaning that there’s always far more left to learn than one could possibly know.
Maybe not the original meaning (the whole Cave Allegory apparently comes from him via Plato, so maybe it’s about how the World is not really what we perceive), but it kinda fits.
“I’ll just validate email addresses with a bit of regex. How hard could that be?”
Right!? Fun fact, this is a perfectly valid email address:
"Pooper Scooper 💩"@[69.69.69.69]
This is, of course, a perfect example of D-K in action. This dude is writing his own email server, FFS, and he characterizes himself as, “at least somewhat knowledgeable”.
I’ve read a bunch of the old RFC’s for email services years ago, when you needed some of that info in order to do interesting things with sendmail. I figure that might have put me in the top 20% of programmers/admins/techies back in the day. But to actually consider writing an email server - no way. That’s a different level of “at least somewhat knowledgeable” .
The 500 mile email comes to mind.
https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html
Next. Level. Troubleshooting.
Oh man, that’s such a good debugging story. I really like the can’t print on Tuesday bug too:
Why did you think email was simple? Every sysadmin knows this is the most difficult system, so we outsource it whenever possible
Well, maybe physical printers are worse. Both should be outsourced. They’re both a PIA
I never thought email was simple. I thought it was straightforward. It’s not. It doesn’t matter if you follow the RFCs, you won’t have a working email server unless you listen to what the experts say.
For example, there are no RFCs about an IP address’ reputation, but that’s a real thing. When you sign up with your ISP, they’re not giving you a brand new IP address. Someone has used it before. They might have trashed its reputation, and there’s very little you can do about that. Then your emails will probably be blocked or delivered to the spam folder.
Ok, but what if I am smart enough to know I’m not?
The point is a smart person knows his or her limits. It is safer to be conservative and underestimate.
One can be never too smart not to know their limits.
Are you smart enough to know you are smarter than you think you are?
If so, according to the dk effect, you are smarter than you think you should be, based on what you think you are.
Exactly!
Are you smart enough to know you are smarter than you think you are?
Probably not haha
Today?
It has been a fad for some time.
Ironically mostly used by people who think they’re smart bcs they’ve heard of it.smart doesn’t mean anything.
It means a lot of things according to the dictionary.
You might want to look it up.
Knowledge doesn’t just diffuse into everyone’s minds when it hits a fad threshold. There’s still a point where one first learns about it. Shocking, I know.
You gotta be part of the hive mind man, it’s pretty cool
I find that folks that just keep their mouths shut, do their jobs quietly, competently and correctly are far better to have on your team than the loudmouth know-it-all.
Bonus is that when the former does open their mouth you know you should be paying attention.
I think they call it “quiet competence”.
IME the loudmouths are mostly mouthing off about things that are totally unrelated to the problem at hand. all in some weird big to appear confident and in control.
I wish I had this but I’m in the between both of those people and incompetent
All too common I’ve seen those loudmouths promoted, and the quiet competent are then talked down to about something they know far more about. Then they leave.
Middle management doesn’t understand a skillset unless someone tells them directly they are skilled, it’s a culture of failure.
So people with high competence are too dumb to know how smart they are ? m’kay…
A 7 year old could see the flaw in this nonsense.
The real DK effect is very average people believing in the DK effect because it tells them they must be smarter than all evidence shows they are…
^ You seem to be proving the hypothesis by completely misunderstanding.
Experts think they understand everything, can’t see that their expertise is limited to, well, their expertise. I’m sure you’re smart enough to have parsed that. :)
Everyone has an opinion and nobody holds the absolute truth. Fun thing, reality is.
that sounds like it’s part of the homosexual/trans agenda!
As far as I can tell, we all have this, even people who are experts, it’s just in different domains that those of their expertise.
what baffles me is that so many experts just willfully refuse to apply there general intelligent to problems outside of their field of expertise in the most basic ways.
like so many ‘genius’ techies who can’t cook or understand a sentence with more than two clauses. it’s not really that hard… just break it down into the functional components like you do with your code, bucko.
It has been my experience that actual domain experience almost invariably beats genius-level intelligence, even that which is all the way up at the level of Einstein (so well beyond mere genius IQ).
What intelligence does bring is a faster ability to grasp things when explained and even to ask the right questions and piece a few more things together naturally than most people would, but that’s still not enough for a very high intelligence newbie to beat somebody with years of expertise on a domain: a newbie doesn’t just lack direct knowledge, they even lack knowledge of what are the right things to do to get that knowledge are as well as, in many domains, training to do it in a time effective way (or to put it another way, they don’t just lack the answers, they even don’t know the right questions to ask).
A last point: don’t confuse tech domain expertise with very above average intelligence - domain expertise in a complex intellectual domain tends to look from the outside as very high intelligence but that’s really an error in perception due to the unbalance in knowledge of the domain expert versus a non-expert. In my experience, there aren’t that many actual geniuses (IQ of 120 or above) in Tech even if some areas of it seem to require above average intelligence to master.
I don’t. Most techies are idiots outside of anything technological.
and they overcompensate hard by trying to turn everything into a problem to be solved with a convoluted technological solution.
That’s a general problem with domain experts in highly specialized intellectual areas: everything looks like a nail when the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer.
It also dovetails with what I wrote before and the Dunning-Krugger effect - just like everybody else, they are prone to think they know a ton about things outside their expert domain they really know little about, so come out as a idiots in those things. It doesn’t help that Tech has been glorified in present day society causing a lot of people within it to have seriously inflated egos well beyond what their actual achievements would justify - you see this kind of thing in all “glamour” areas: for example in my experience lots low-level barely-making-ends-meet actors seem to think of themselves as “superior to the common man”.
I like to think most people affected by such delusions about their inherent worth and capabilities get over it as they get older, after life has had the time to slapped them a couple of times.
This shit has made me question myself so many times. Its usually brought up by the smartest asshole in the room when they propose something super risky or some super hard to fetch idea. When confronted they gotta bring up their dunning Kruger effect.
Well I hereby propose that no matter what any one of us do we are still just a tiny pale blue dot. Just let people be. You know? Who cares if some stupid guy thinks he’s the shit. Eventually they learn.
