I wish harm on them 🤷♂️
I also wish harm on them.
MAGAts = Neo-Nazis + Fascists.
Just watched this a bit ago. Very good video.
They don’t mean anything anymore… Seen people on here calling everything from Joe Biden to Buffalo wild wings fascist… (real encounters)
Joe biden authored the patriot act.
One can argue that the patriot act is fascistic legislation.
Yes. That is what i was implying.
Authoritarianism ≠ Fascism
Fascism ∈ Authoritarianism
You know, I thought you were wrong. I looked it up was ready to site sources, watched that video and I really dont know what to think anymore.
Well, technically Biden only authored the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, not the patriot act. But the proposals in his bill were recycled into the patriot act.
Then technology made it worse.
You should think about what Liberalism actually is and see if you agree with any of it
I agree with Wikipedias definition but the US still needs more than 2 parties
The Wikipedia page for neoliberalism has more thorough real-world context for liberalism as it is applied today.
Ok I’ll take a look thank you
The same thing happened to terrorist, a term that became overused and dead during the IWoT and yet the Trump regime is still trying to leverage that word against his political enemies.
For my own arguments, I use alternatives to fascist or get specific, such as calling it an autocratic regime that uses fascist rhetoric to justify state violence. That way my readers know I’m talking seriously about a serious thing.
It’s why I always ask for specifics or ignore what the average person on these forums has to say.
Oh! This is the guy who talked about what a shithead Fetterman was even before the stroke! I could never find it again but I remember his face.
The channel‘s called Some More News
Lol nice username
I also enjoy your username.
Their 3 hours takedown of Jordan Peterson is epic.
The ‘Elon Musk Is Not Your Friend’ episode was what woke me up to what a shithead he is. I’ve been a fan since it was called ‘Some News’ when they were still on Cracked.
The Rogan one was pretty good too.
Don’t look at the timestamp!
It’s a short video. Didn’t Jonathan write that one, too?
Never listen to fascists calling others communists, for them communism means any opposition to their fascism.
Yeah, some more news is one of my favourites. I tend to listen to it like a podcast when i am driving to and from work. But the visuals help sometimes.
Its a great showdy.
They release both Some More News, and their related show Even More News as podcasts as well, for those who prefer that format.
I try to listen to SMN once in a while, but I often leave it for when I can watch the video. It needs different editing to truly work as a podcast, there’s a lot of info presented as pictures or graphs and skimmed over by the narration. And you miss all the jokes made by the title card monkey.
Agree! SMN I usually watch, but EMN I usually just listen to the pod.
Some More News is really good.
I don’t call them Nazis because I dislike them, I dislike them because they’re Nazis.
No they are fascists, Nazi was the shorthand for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP), the first 4 letters.
Fascism gets its name from Italy, Mussolini’s Fascist Party, but it is the name for the political ideology as a whole, there is no Nazism and Americans being called Nazis is kinda weird, imagine if the scenario was flipped and you called german fascists MAGAs.
Thanks for coming to my stickler talk.
What do you call people who wear red and black swastikas and say heil Hitler while doing a salute typical of the Nazi party?
Romans?
assholes.
Lazy and derivative
imagine if the scenario was flipped and you called german fascists MAGAs.
It’s semantics. The German and American fascists all pull from the same ideological and rhetorical playbook.
Veneration of the national security state. Zealous religious orthodoxy. Obsession with loyalty oaths and ethnicity sorting. Reflexive xenophobia. Institutionalized quackery.
It’s all the same shit. Same as Apartheid Africa. Same as Kuomanting China. Same as Pinochet’s Chile and Milei’s Argentina.
I don’t live in America, and many people here actually do use MAGA or Trumpism to describe the local right wing people and parties because they are largely just copying America…
If the situation were flipped, and Hitler was rising to power ~80 years after we had a massive war to take out MAGA fascists, then yeah I think people would refer to them as “MAGA”, at least at first.
Nazi
meansrefers to National Socialist, but at this point in history, it can also just refer to political movements that are fascist and Nazi-like. The meanings of words shift over time.Edit: Fixed to appease a pedant.
Nazi doesn’t mean national socialist, as I said it’s literally just the first 4 letters, a shorthand a nickname, American version for Republicans would be Repu/Repus.
Lots of people I have seen that think it’s Nazi because the Sozialistische has the Zi, it’s nonsense, Nazional is how germans pronounce National, hence it’s shortened to Nazi.
I call them Repubs at this point because they don’t want to say things like “Democratic politicians” opting instead for “Democrat politicians” because they’re worried democratic sounds too good.
I think republican sounds too good. They don’t want a republic, they want a tyrant.
So, tyrannist? Hmm that’s not catchy. Maybe just autocrat but that doesn’t contain the root of the word tyrannus. Best I got for ya.
Nah I’ll stick with repubs
That works for me dude.
Tyranids?🤷♂️
IMO it’s more offensive to call MAGAs a Nazi. And I’m certainly looking for maximum effect. I couldn’t care less about the etymology of Nazi.
Nazi doesn’t mean national socialist
Ridiculously pedantic. Come on.
I mean, so was my first comment, not sure what you expected 😃
You are confusing National Socialism with Leftist-Nationalism
The reason Hitler added Social to their party name was because it was political suicide not to, not because they where socialists.
I was quoting the person above me. Read the chain again, I’m well aware of what Nazi means.
Sorry indeed I misplaced my reply
How about nationalist?
Imagine gatekeeping nazis.
Cody seems so dispirited for months. Not that I blame him at all.
We’ve all been dispirited for months bud. Anyone who acts otherwise is either ignorant or hiding it.
I have a coworker that is not a trumpet and not dispirited. They positively radiate denial. They don’t watch news or keep up on current events. Just a total ostrich.
Yet they are the ones that have energy to do the dishes. Following politics is exhausting!
And that’s by design too isn’t it? Keep everyone exhausted keep everyone busy keep everyone watching everything and there’s too much for any one person to follow, any group to follow and so if they throw enough at the wall some of it’s going to stick and that’s what they’ve been doing for the past two Trump terms and that’s what they’re going to continue doing.
Cody, Katy, AND Robert Evans seem to be completely losing hope lately.
He doesn’t have enough Warmbo in his life right now! /s
Buy an ad.
Get a life
“It is the correct word for donald trump and the people around him”
Although by some coincidence, the people we call fascist tend to spend alot of their time wishing alot of harm on all sorts of people they hate.
Am I becoming fascist?
Do other ethnic groups fill you with a mix of fear and hatred? Are you more comfortable being told what to do and think? Do you idolize the Military? Does “the enemy” seem both weak and strong to you?
Don’t forget the biggest indicator of a fascist:
“Are you not willing to call trans people what they want you to call them?”
Trans people are one of the easy out groups to vilify though that’s not exclusive to fascism
You ever heard the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf?
I kinda think that’s what’s happening here. Leftists and Liberals have been calling Republicans (and especially Trump) fascist since AT LEAST the 2016 election campaign, and they’ve been doing it consistently ever since. People just got tired of hearing it, I guess. Especially since he really didn’t do that much fascist stuff during his first term, and even ended up handing over the office (mostly) peacefully, which isn’t exactly something that actual fascists are known for.
I’m sorry to say this, but the term simply has been overused to the point of meaningless in the past decade. Perhaps it’s time to face reality and come up with a new plan, because this clearly isn’t working.
While that is the narrative Fox and friends would like you to believe, never forget WHY we called him fascist.
Many fascist regimes take decades to creep into full effect. The warning signs 10 years ago were apparent. Sorry you can’t understand that, but it’s why we’re closer to full blown fascism than ever.
What kind of argument is this? They werent fascists because they didnt do a hostile takeover of the government back then? Looks like all my relatives and friends cant be christians because they dont read the bible out loud right in front of me.
Well, I’m pretty sure the Bible says that in order to be a Christian, you SHOULD go out and proclaim the word to all people, instead of just sitting at home and reading it in private.
That said, there are a few more things that are required as well, so don’t make this the only criteria for judging their faith.
The boy who cried wolf is a story where someone repeatedly makes incorrect warnings that the community acts on until they stop believing him. This is like the exact opposite. The left has repeatedly and accurately warned that a specific political movement is fascist and been ignored the entire time. The term was not “overused to the point of meaninglessness” people just dismissed the warning without thinking cause they didn’t understand the word and couldn’t be fucked to learn or listen
So, neither of you are wrong. It was used correctly and people are numb to it.
Since they didn’t see stormtroopers at their doors, they figured there’s no real danger. They didn’t see that one group losing rights meant that they didn’t have rights either.
The regime is doing a good job of not terrifying their base and at the same time keeping them brainwashed and inflicting harm on the various outgroups.
What you’re seeing here, I think, is two echo chambers conflicting.
They didn’t see that one group losing rights meant that they didn’t have rights either.
This is one of the areas that made me realize I was to the left of liberals. Too many people telling me to calm down, it won’t affect me, I’m a white woman, stop being dramatic. Like, bitch, I was raised in a red state, I know that being white won’t protect me when they come after women. Just like how being white and male won’t protect you when they come for the lower class.
Dude I feel you it doesn’t take much to be left of the liberals in this country either cuz they’re just just conservativism light!
No kidding. I was raised by Tea Partiers, and moving left really needs to be made easier. I’m pretty sure the only reason I made it is because I’m privileged enough to be literate, and that’s exactly why the right has been axing public education since before I was born.
This is like the exact opposite.
No it’s not. You get called a fascist for deadnaming transpeople.
In real life? Or on twitter? This really just sounds like something that would be on a Facebook or TicToc cringe compilation
Hindsight is 20/20. The boy in the story was ultimately correct too, wasn’t he? The problem was that the townspeople didn’t believe the earlier warnings because they seemed exaggerated and blown out of proportion.
Which version of The Boy Who Cried Wolf did you have growing up? The one where Peter cries wolf and there’s a wolf but it’s in the woods so the townsfolk do nothing, then the townsfolk call Peter a wolf, and then when the wolf arrives in the village and starts taking people and Peter cries wolf the townsfolk say the word “wolf” is so overused it doesn’t mean anything anymore?
Because I don’t remember that version.
I think you might be confusing two different stories here. The Boy Who Cried Wolf is one of Aesop’s Fables. Peter and the Wolf is a musical by Sergei Prokofiev. They both have a similar setup (in the sense that both involve a boy and a wolf) but they play out quite differently.
That’s fair. Explain how calling out fascists being fascists that haven’t yet realized there full potential is like The Boy Who Cried Wolf?
Handed over the office peacefully lol. He claimed it was rigged and cheered on the people trying to overthrow the government. He might not have been a successful fascist but he was certainly trying.
Did he end up handing the presidency over or did he not?
This sort of argument is exactly what I’m talking about – you guys wanted so badly to keep calling him a fascist even when he did things that no fascist in history has ever done.
Claiming that the election was rigged isn’t particularly new. Hillary did the same after losing in 2016, and Al Gore did as well after he lost to Bush, so it’s not like Democrats would never do such a thing.
Lots of people simply don’t know what fascism even is, I would encourage watching this excellent video on it
Or you can go through this checklist and ask yourself how many fits onto the US, it’s at least 10
This one from the national archives is a great one.
“ Don’t be a sucker” https://youtu.be/vGAqYNFQdZ4
We called fascists “fascists” 10 years ago because they were fascists then, and they’re still fascists now. It’s not difficult to understand.
Stop sanewashing his first term. He tried to do all kinds of fascist stuff during his first term, but the checks and balances were still intact and stopped the worst of it. Being a powerless fascist doesn’t mean you’re not a fascist.
The only reason he didn’t go full fascist the first time is because he had somewhat competent people who wouldn’t let him. Read books from his former cabinet if you actually care. He ordered his people to shoot protestors in the legs. The order was refused because he had an actual American working for him.
He had an entire false set of votes ready to be confirmed in 2020, his VP refused. His mob attempted an armed insurrection. He pardoned them all. But that’s different from fascism for some reason? Fuck that, words mean things and I’ll be damned if I let the dumbest group of people that America has ever puked out tell me what it means. The “peaceful” (are you for real?) transfer of power happened AGAINST his orders and wishes, not because he was such a nice and non-fascist politician. I don’t think you’re stupid, stop with the bad-faith “acksuallyy” nonsense. Be an adult.
Do you actually think like that, or do you just like the guy so you cherrypick “facts” to fit your narrative. Enjoy it broski, they’ll come for you. They always do. I’m willing to bet you’ve already thought twice about saying certain things in public. In America. They hate you as much as they hate immigrants. Hope you wake up in time, if for no other reason then for your own sense of dignity.
Now this is just me, but I have never said “You guys have called me gay like 45 times so maybe I’ll just go blow dudes since the word is losing meaning!”.
Fascists are gonna do fascist shit no matter what we say, but they NEVER get to steal words. Fascism has a definition. Please, look it up, study it, and come back here talking about how using the term fascism is an overreaction. Please. I would love to have that talk. We can go point by point.
You must have a safe and comfortable life, with friends who have never been threatened by this system. Enjoy that, but allow the creeping realization that it is temporary gnaw at your mind. Listen to that voice. You’re not special. You’ll get to see the inside of a black-site soon enough. They’ll find a reason, some shit you said in 2015, doesn’t matter. They’ll just do it. You think this is a joke? You think America could just never?
We have a fascist government currently which is increasing in its scope daily. Talk shit about Israel, talk shit about that piece of shit that got got in Utah, see how unfascist we are currently. Only until you inconvenience the system, then you’re fucked. Maybe you like living in perfect line with arbitrary rules. Maybe you should go work for them. Congrats on not having loved-ones in direct danger from it. Say it with your chest if you disagree, none of that mealy-mouthed semantics BS. Or support it with your chest. But enough of this “You can’t call everyone fascists durrrrrr” bullshit. Ya, we fucking can when they behave as fascists. Mussolini was voted in. Hitler was elected. Know how many people talked about “overreacting” and using words which are too severe. Enough to get them elected. You. Are. Not. Special. And neither is your country. Act like a grown-up and stand on what you believe. Either put on the gray hugo boss suit or actually work to affect change with the rest of us. Your choice, but it’s one you’ll have to live with forever.
Words don’t matter here. All that matters now, is action.
Sabotage them any way you can!
Love the Cody Showdy
I love the channel too, but I haven’t watched any of it for about a year. I just don’t have the mental energy to get that into so many topics that, while they’re objectively bad, don’t apply much to me as a non-american. Just the daily reading of posts from lemmy and the grounded app, both worldwide and local to me can be too much some days. It sucks cause I like the show and podcast, and love their humor, but there’s not really any way to interact with it without diving deep into fucked up shit.
Watched this yesterday and “Charles Entertainment Kirk” fucking murdered me
Got a link? I don’t know who this is but my curiosity is piqued.
The post includes a link to the very video, but here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD3rSA4FSqk
It’s a very good analysis of political violence in the US. Cody Showdy generally does great work discussing not just the news, but the olds too. Fair and Balanced™©® and all that.
Thanks, for some reason when I was looking at post earlier it was just the screenshot, no link. Maybe it didn’t load properly, happened to me sometimes with Lemmy.
Let me start by saying I’m 100% against fascism, but… we do have a terminology problem. The left overall has a messaging problem, “Oh Black lives matter, so that means White lives don’t?!?” Words do matter, but it’s because they matter that we have a problem. The left seems to ebb and flow on vibes (“Just because we say Black lives matter doesn’t mean other people’s lives don’t”) while the right seems so much more literal, but the subtext is maybe even more implied. For example, they might say “They [people not like us] are taking our jobs,” but what they really mean is that they are taking the jobs we want (office jobs, trade jobs, etc), but we don’t mind them working the jobs we don’t want (basic construction, farm hands, etc), all the while their vibe is wrong and that’s not really happening.
When you call someone or something fascist they probably won’t believe you because fascism equals Nazis which equals antisemitism in most of the common people’s view. I’ll assume that anyone who has found their way to Lemmy probably understands the difference, but at the same time many of this platform don’t seem able to understand that the common person doesn’t know the difference.
There is a big difference between systemic racism vs open bigotry. A bigot is much harder to turn from racism than a person who grew up in systemic racism. It still might take decades to turn someone who is systemically racist, but a bigot will likely take longer. The same applies to a fascist; like a systemic racist they might not understand that they are racist or what racism even is. Education or experience are the two avenues people escape those avenues, but it’s especially hard if you’re doing it alone and if you feel attacked by the terminology.
Fascist = Nazi = Jew hater
“Well, I don’t hate jews, I’m not a Nazi, so I’m not a fascist” -common Fascist
I’ve had plenty of discussions with Conservatives where I took the discussion to a rich vs poor direction or a a personal rights vs governed rights direction and they suddenly become liberals without acknowledging it.
Honestly it’s the same hurdle that the left has had for decades, just because you’re a leftist doesn’t mean you love Stalin and Mao. Messaging is important, one of the most recent persons to break that mold was Bernie Sanders who made it at least semi acceptable to be a Democratic Socialist.
Yes, the neoliberals have a very difficult time coming up with effective names for things.
It’s a problem with tribalism where they’re used to people on their side giving them less scrutiny.
