…I could have told you that 🤷
Source: https://x.com/BriannaWu/status/1984574165643403370
Not my usual kind of source (Xitter), but I want any centrists out there who ask trans people to “just get along” / compromise with actual hate groups that want them eradicated to know that it doesn’t work.
There is no such thing as a reasonable bigot, by definition.
This is why advocating for “finding middle ground”, or centrism, or this repackaged warmed over Abundance crap is so toxic.
You can’t match these people half way. you have to beat them
Political centrism works well in a staunch democracy with a certain Overton window. As soon as these Alt-Righters have influence in a country, it doesn’t work anymore.
Beat them with rods is the only method.
(Not sarcasm)
Most arguments have a middle ground, but its a case by case basis. In this case the sides are:
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let a marginalized group experience a little joy and feel comfortable in their bodies
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refuse to accept that a middle school understanding of gender and biology might not be totally correct.
Meeting in the middle here is how you get second class citizens.
I see a lot of (often well deserved) shit talk about centrists/middle ground. Honestly, it IS silly to talk about middle ground between reason and raw hate. I do, however, doubt myself if I look around and find myself spouting the most extreme ideas on a given topic. How isnt that scary to people? I dont want to be the fanatic. I was raised with talk about the middle path and the golden mean. Virtue in courage is found between recklessness and cowardice. I still subscribe to that notion, but absolutely recognize how one can lull themselves into false means based on the prevailing culture (Overton window). Still, I dont see how it is that hard to have some bedrock principals, and use those to anchor a true middle ground.
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A good compromise is never just halfway between two policies. It requires understanding both perspectives and addressing their actual problems. So the compromise here would be trans rights for trans people, and free mental health care for anti-trans people.
The Trans Athlete debate also never seems to address the fact that it’s all unfair from the get go. Being born to a poor family? Being born with a birth defect? Being born into an unsupportive family/community? Being born at the wrong time of year?
It also shouldn’t matter how well someone does in sports. No athlete is using their skills in the work place and students shouldn’t need athletics scholarships to pay for school. It should just be for fun with nothing on the line.
In the real world, it doesn’t even cause a real fairness issue. The Olympics started allowing trans competitors in the 90s, but there’s never been a trans medal winner. If there was a real advantage, then you’d expect the best person at some sports in some counties to be trans, so there to be trans athletes competing, and their advantage to put them on the podium. You’d also potentially expect some countries to pad their team with trans people to get more medals. This hasn’t happened.
I think you’re kind of confusing trans people and people with DSDs. The Olympics stopped doing sex testing themselves in the 90’s. There have been a few biological males with DSDs that won women’s medals in the Olympics though. All 3 medals for the women’s 800m at the 2016 Rio Olympics were awarded to biological males, Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba, and Margaret Wambui. Likewise, Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting are also biologically male (not trans as some people incorrectly claimed) and notably won gold in 2024. They were all wrongly assigned female at birth but have the physical advantages of male puberty.
Ana Caldas is a more specific example of why trans people that are biologically male have an insurmountable advantage in the women’s category.
Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting are also biologically male
This is a lie. Wikipedia links to no fewer than 3 sources that confirm this is a lie. I will be blocking you.
“Those cheering fans have embraced Khelif throughout her run in Paris even as she faced an extraordinary amount of scrutiny from world leaders, major celebrities and others who have questioned her eligibility or falsely claimed she was a man.” – https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-fights-for-olympic-gold-after-enduring-abuse-fueled-by-misinformation
'The participation of Algeria’s Khelif and Taiwan’s Lin has proved controversial given they were disqualified from the 2023 World Championships.
“Let’s be very clear, we are talking about women’s boxing,” said Bach at Saturday’s daily IOC briefing.
"We have two boxers who are born as a woman, who have been raised as a woman, who have a passport as a woman and who have competed for many years as a woman.
“This is the clear definition of a woman. There was never any doubt about them being a woman.”’ – https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/c28e88jdprno
'Khelif and a second boxer, Taiwan’s Lin Yu-ting, fell foul of IBA eligibility rules […].
[…] a March 2023 IBA board meeting stated that “the athletes do not meet one of the eligibility criteria”, without stating which one.’ – https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/who-is-algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-2024-08-03/
We have two boxers who are born as a woman […]
Right, they were incorrectly assigned female at birth and raised as women but are biologically male, because
the athletes do not meet one of the eligibility criteria
I’m confused as to why you think those quotes support your point. The sex testing was done by an accredited lab, and is the eligibility criteria they do not meet.
The sources people cite for Imane Khelif being biologically male are:
- an opponent with a history of forfeiting after a single punch and claiming after the fact that her opponent was cheating and that was why she was forced to forfeit did it again. When she did that in the past with other opponents, there wasn’t any assumption that the baseless cheating allegations were on gender/sex grounds.
- The IBA, an infamously corrupt organisation with the infamously corrupt Gazprom as its majority owner disqualified her from a tournament without saying why. There are enough historic allegations of them disqualifying people for refusing to throw matches that it’s plausible that the only reason she was disqualified was that she refused to throw a match they wanted to rig.
- JK Rowling said she looked like a man. She does this a lot with a lot of cisgender women due to internalising unrealistic femenine beauty standards.
People have claimed sex testing was done by an accreddited independent lab, but chasing that citation just leads to the IBA saying she was disqualified without elaborating why, which doesn’t support the claim.
There’s no actual evidence to support the speculation. That doesn’t mean it’s untrue, but does mean it’s unreasonable to present it as fact - there’s just as much evidence for alternative speculation, e.g. that she bribed the opponent to forfeit and was disqualified by the IBA because they found she’d bribed people to forfeit in the past, and it would be just as unreasonable to spread that rumour I just invented around as if it were fact.
JK Rowling/IBA/etc don’t matter, they’re just noise. The sex test is what matters. Chasing that citation shows this
https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2025/6/1/xxyetyl1aewfij823hnfdrsbi1sqjm
And note this correction (from the IOC!), which straightforwardly implies that it’s a DSD case
The weight of evidence strongly points towards Imane Khelif being biologically male. It doesn’t mean the IBA isn’t corrupt, JK Rowling isn’t terrible etc, but none of that matters.
The trans athlete debate was a solved problem before the right wing learned about it. Let the professional authority body of whatever sport, in collaboration with relevant medical professionals, determine what hormone levels or transition progress is qualifying or unqualifying in each individual sport in a case by case basis. Because we tried this before, with genetic testing of Olympic female athletes and enough turned out intersex or androgyn disordered that they stopped doing it.
Even after all of that, she still doesn’t get it:
I think many of our most extreme ideas are bad. But theirs are worse.
The problem is that “our” (using quotes as I’m only progressive, not LGBTQ+) most extreme ideas are only held by a minority of progressive people, and meanwhile the things she thinks are their “most extreme ideas” are the ones that she saw personally, while interacting with people who don’t mind interacting with a trans-woman. Those aren’t their “most extreme ideas.” They’re their mainstream ideas.
She’s comparing our most extreme ideas against their mainstream ideas.
I’m not sure who she’s referring to when she says our there but whoever it is would be insane to invite her in with that take
Also, she doesn’t say what our most extreme ideas are. The most extreme idea she mentions is allowing trans-women to compete in women’s sports. But I think that’s probably a mainstream belief, and also the one that is best supported by science.
(Meanwhile, the most extreme idea of theirs that she mentions is that trans-women should face non-stop violent rape if they go to prison.)
Also, she doesn’t say what our most extreme ideas are.
If I were to try to define the most extreme positions held by any in our community (in regards to trans issues), they might be:
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Bathroom access based on identity only. Very few people are actually like this. But some folks would say that all that is needed to switch bathrooms is identifying as a different gender. So it’s perfectly acceptable for a person dressed in male clothing, with a beard, using a deep voice, etc. to use the women’s restroom as long as they identify as female. Very few trans folks would be caught dead doing that. Most recognize that there is a certain give and take, a negotiation of social spaces. I imagine most would say you shouldn’t have to pass in order to use the bathroom, but most would recognize that it’s going to cause a ton of unnecessary friction and hate if someone fully masculine-presenting uses the women’s restroom. I don’t think people who can’t pass should be banished from the bathroom that matches their identity. But I myself would be very uncomfortable sharing the women’s restroom with an entirely masculine-presenting person, trans or not.
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Unrealistic/impractical pronoun expectations. Some folks confuse “gender is a social construct” with “nothing is real and nothing matters.” Pronouns are a social construct. That doesn’t mean they mean nothing; it means they have socially constructed definitions. If I invent a new pronoun tomorrow and start demanding others call me it, that isn’t a social construction. That’s just something I invented and am now imposing on others without their participation or consent. In order to socially construct something, there must be a meeting of the minds, a shared milieu of understanding. A pronoun, if you expect people to actually use it, can’t be something you just invented. It has to be something negotiated among a large number of people. This is why the pronouns people tend to actually use are he, she, and they. Most others get little use beyond extremely online teenagers. Pronouns are meant to be shorthand for characteristics of your identity. If your pronoun is so unique that no one has any idea what the hell it means, you’re not using a pronoun, you’re just using a nickname.
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Sports based purely on identity with no qualifiers. I support trans women playing on women’s teams and trans men playing on men’s teams. But that’s not just because of identity, but because I recognize that the science says that trans women don’t have any advantages after a few years on HRT. I wouldn’t however support trans women who still have male testosterone levels competing on women’s teams. That’s just about basic fairness. But, some would say that it’s just sports, and that respect for identity matters more than athletic fairness, and that no one should have to seek out medical treatment they may not otherwise want. Fair enough, but I would disagree.
Still, these are extremes. The vast, vast majority of trans people wouldn’t switch bathrooms before at least changing their presentation, use pronouns they can actually expect other people to use, and wouldn’t expect to switch sports teams without altering their own hormones. If TERFs really were interested in compromise, these are the issues we could compromise on. So maybe we restrict bathrooms based on legal identity, but in turn we make it really easy to change your legal identity, say up to once per year. And we have clear social expectations about the rules of bathrooms. So it’s OK if you don’t fully pass, but you shouldn’t be rocking a beard in the women’s restroom. Or, we come to a compromise on pronouns. You can have your close friends call you whatever you want, but the only pronouns you should expect others to recognize are the broad and generic he, she, and they. We compromise by, for example, making it workplace harassment to not respect someone’s pronouns. But in turn we trans people also don’t demand that people learn hundreds of new pronouns or start referring to human beings as inanimate objects. Or, we regulate sports, but we don’t try to ban trans people from sports all together. We follow the science that says trans women have no advantage after a few years on E. You can’t change your teams based purely on self-ID, but we do give trans men and women a clear and open path to participate fully and equally in athletics.
If TERFs and other conservatives really were just looking for a reasonable compromise, these are the types of issues we could compromise on. But, as the post notes, you give these bastards an inch and they’ll take a mile.
My proposition to solve the bathroom issue is making gendered bathrooms illegal and mandating proper cubicle walls that guarantee privacy. The harassment that gender neutral bathrooms are claimed to cause is vastly exagerrated by the right wing. It does not outweigh the harassment towards gender minorities that gendered bathrooms cause.
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I would love to know what those extreme left ideas that are bad are. Like 99% of progressive ideas boil down to “stop treating other people like shit.”
It’s easy to dunk on how wrong she used to be, Brianna absolutely and clearly was. But now that even she agrees, it’s not super helpful to mock her about it.
There are a oodles of different social pressures to conform for trans women, I truly understand her motivation. Girl let her internalized transphobia take the wheel and went look for nonexistent middle ground. Especially early in transition it’s alluring to be *one of the good ones" and get a very specific type of applause for it.
We need to recognize that Bri didn’t have to admit her faults, glad she did, but even on far more trivial issues most folk struggle. I’m glad she got here, and I look forward to her being better advocate for our rights. But her past should only be as an example for others, not a crudgel to mock her previous bargaining.
Welcome Hon, glad to see ya. ♥️
Sounds great IF she does agree. She’s dropped this ball before. I agree with you, except very tentatively.
I agree in large part, I think she needs to step away from the internet and discourse for a while and actually connect with trans people in real life. Hit up a support group and listen, go to day of remembrance and hang around for a while after just talking about life with people, stuff like that.
I haven’t forgiven her yet, but she’s still my sister, she just needs to get her shit together and stop hurting the family. And that includes learning that her middle ground is still gonna make us second class citizens (and it’s easy to accept it for yourself, but when it’s others you care about it’s harder, it’s why you need community).
I will however say, she’s not fresh out, she was out when she was a major target of gamergate like a decade ago. Like idk how she didn’t learn by watching Blaire White get used in the same way.
Can we still mock her for being a blood thirsty genocidal psycho?
Brianna should go home and read, forever.
She was wrong. She remains wrong. The most help she can be to anyone is to butt the fuck out.
The trans movement in no wise needed a quisling to suck up to TERFs, and we aren’t going to coddle her for getting what she was told she would.
This is not a matter of innocent ignorance. This was a matter of willfully ignoring all of the people telling you what would happen, complete with historical record.
Absolutely agree that Brianna needs to log the fuck off, de-center herself as any sort of repetitive of the community and sort out her own internalized transphobia. She isn’t even close off the hook.
This is not a matter of innocent ignorance. This was a matter of willfully ignoring all of the people telling you what would happen, complete with historical record.
100%. I agree completely. She ignored the broader trans community and perpetuated harm, all for selfish self-congratulatory reasons. But what I’m saying is that she recognized the futility and is starting to listen. This no “forgive and forget”, but we can’t condemn her for admitting she was wrong.
I just don’t want others with misguided bigoted talking points thinking that they are trapped in that echo chamber.
She isn’t starting to listen, though.
She just decided that because she half admitted a mistake that lots of people loudly told her she was making, she can just act like none of the nastiness she perpetuated on people who carefully explained why this was going to blow up in her face. She just declared that she was reaccepted, trying to wishcast instead of engaging in personal growth.
She still says she believes in “middle ground” with violent, homicidal, totalitarian fascists. Despite everything, she still hasn’t realized that “middle ground” is a fallacy that rightists use as a trap to take everything from others.
“Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man. You take a step forward, they take a step back. “Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man.
She’s close, I think, but only when you admit that compromising with the unjust is ALWAYS perpetuating injustice can you be forgiven.
Ah, Brianna Wu. Theres a name Ive not heard in a while. Always looking to grift off something or other for her own gain. I wonder what she needs money for this time…
Exactly. My dislike of her has zero to do with her being a trans woman.
“The problem is, they are getting crazier and crazier.”
They’re not, they just don’t feel the need to hide those parts of their goals any more, and you should have listened to us when we warned you about those goals.
And you should be listening to us now about their future goals.
They kinda are. Not at the fringes, there used to be targeted outing campaigns in the hopes of getting trans people fired or killed back in the day, but what was once extreme personal bigotry has become a pipeline and is increasingly legitimized by mainstream right wing politics. If you ask the average bush era republican if the medical establishment should be forced to institutionalize trans people, they’d reply with a slur for sure but they’d not support overriding medical institutions.
Oh… I know… I’ll walk through the chainsaw robot cave… they are triggered by motion… they tear anything that moves to shreds… yeah, that’s where I’m going to walk…
I have no sympathy whatsoever.
Fuck off and have the day you voted for.
I don’t think she’s right wing. Maybe in the same way that I jokingly call people right wing when they’re wrong, but I don’t think she’s actually traitor lunatic.
Have you seen her views on the Gaza genocide? She’s a straight up fascist
Some people need to learn about the alt-right’s cultivated ignorance via hard experience.
The rest of us work just fine via observation.
“Meet me halfway”, says the unreasonable man.
You take one step forward, and they take one step backwards.
“Why can’t you meet me halfway?”, complains the unreasonable man.
And thus, conservatism in a nutshell.
What a pathetic person :c
I remember a long time ago someone told me “you can’t reason with crazy.” These people are living in a completely unrealistic universe and do not have their wits about them. You can call them evil or whatever, but even so, they should be getting help from a medical professional because whatever is going on with these people is completely toxic, unhealthy, and destructive, even for themselves. I’ve pretty much written off anyone who still supports this administration a couple of years ago, as any reasonable person has already abandoned Trump and anyone else he associates with.
For those who are not familiar with Brianna Wu: She has tried to be a left-wing grifter, before she discovered that it got her nowhere and thus decided to be a right-wing grifter instead. She tried to the right-wing’s “good trans woman”, agreeing with everything they said, until the above message. And yeah, she is already trying to spin this yet again…
And if you think that all of that is rather weird, she is also the creator of this masterpiece.
what the hell was that last image
Cyborg Martin Luther King Jr. being attacked by scantily clad KKK women
Had to read that a couple of times for it to sink in.
once again ignoring entirely that trans masc people exist and we are impacted by the bullshit she spouts as well. what impacts one of us affects all of us, and I am not your fucking sister.
“I thought if I let the leopards eat a little of my face they wouldn’t take it all.”
