There’s a clear campaign against the mentally ill with the global rise of fascism. Lots of it shows up in anti homeless rhetoric, but you can see it in the MAHA and anti vaccination movements.
There’s no reason to use the word “r-tarded” to describe someone. As someone who’s worked with the intellectually challenged, it’s an insult to them to compare them with people who are willfully ignorant.
I agree. Often there is a better insult to use against someone who is being idiotic that’s not also disparaging to an unrelated group.
Does that mean if I’m autistic I get an R- word pass?
I agree with you. Like I told a family member who made all the same arguments the people in these comments are making: "I am not trying to tell you what you can and cannot say. I’m telling you that if I hear you use language like that, I will respect you less and I will talk to you less or not at all. " We don’t talk much anymore, and thats fine.
That’s really the main point. Getting around the “euphemism treadmill” and the idea of “policing speech” that have been the main points of most of the other comments - it’s not that I think it should be illegal to say it, but that I will think much less of you as a person. It takes so little effort to try to avoid words that people can be harmed by.
I think it reflects the way that the marginalization of disabled people is invisible in even “leftist” spaces. The severely cognitively delayed are usually shafted off into a “self contained” room, and so it’s really easy to have a warped picture of what someone with intellectual difficulties is like. I did a little program in college where I spent a lot of time with an adult day respite center - something like a “day care” for non-independent adults who lived with family. There were definitely a lot of things alien to me about the way they lived their lives but they were all human. They had stuff they liked - and it wasn’t “kid stuff.” They could express what they thought about the food they were eating, what they wanted to do, idk, the point is that they had the same basic right to agency that we all do. And this is something that not even the most “leftist” politicians or thinkers engage with at all. Conservatives ofc, seem to think we should just kill them or let them die.
Bless your heart!
(See how that’s FAR more insulting? No? Perhaps you’re retarded?)
No, an underhanded compliment/insult is not nearly as insulting as calling someone mentally disabled and using a slur to do it. I’m saying that as someone from the south where that phrase gets used often. I understand the context well.
Ironically, the term “mental retardation” was introduced by medical and educational professionals as a less derogatory and more objective replacement for older, highly stigmatizing terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile, which themselves were previous medical classifications.
I find it difficult to imagine a future in which humans aren’t making fun of impaired cognition.
I think the context is what’s most important, if anyone actually directs such language (be it retarded, idiot, etc) towards people with genuine mental impairment, that constitutes a slur. But the word ‘retarded’ literally means ‘slow’, and is still regularly used (including by myself) in scientific and technical contexts (compared to racist or homophobic slurs, which are only ever really used in a ‘slur’ kind of way).
I wouldn’t really have a problem with calling people ‘slow’ in jest, and I don’t think many would. Imo if not ‘retarded’, it’ll be something else with the same meaning.
That doesn’t really work as an argument when slow is also used as a euphemism for people with mental disabilities. Saying “it literally means slow, I’m calling them slow” just makes it sound like you’re still being ableist. I don’t believe calling someone slow as an insult is ableist, I’m only saying that the train of thought feels goofy. Like, “oh? You weren’t trying to use the slur usage of the word and were using the technical usage? The technical usage that means slow? Another word people use as an insult and a euphemism for the exact same kinds of people and scenarios as the other one?”
Also commonly used in timing of internal combustion engines
Literally nobody is saying it can’t be used in that context.
So it’s fine to say that ICE is retarded?
It is so weird to me that this opinion is unpopular, but judging by some of the comments here, I see your point.
I don’t particularly care one way or the other, but I know it really bothers some people, so I avoid using it. Best case scenario, I avoid making fun of a disability, worst case scenario, I had to go to all the trouble and effort of thinking of and using a synonym, such a terrible effort.
Policing the hell out of language, while well intentioned, creates a backlash effect that I think actually hurts us more these days. Look at how they originally attacked “political correctness” in the 90s - because we were trying to code some improvements into language. Now people openly laugh at us for not having a solution to homelessness besides renaming them “unhoused.”
Be far easier to just let the R word become the word it has become, which doesn’t describe mental illness or disability anymore, much like “idiot” and “moron” and “imbecile” were once used as medical terms, and now they have none of that meaning.
You aren’t being “policed.” The point is the problem is the dehumanization of people with intellectual delays, who are a group currently being target by the fascist government of the US, and probably other fascist governments at the moment. Disability rights are fucking invisible, and language like that goes with that problem.
It’s not about being “offended,” it’s pointing out that words mean things. Some people are hurt by your language. Why isn’t that enough to consider what you are saying and why.
they mean things to you.
they don’t mean those same things to other people.
just like if I say the word sabaka, it doesn’t mean anything to you, but since i speak russian, it has meaning to be.
you find the word retard upsetting. Cool. I don’t. I find the word heteronormativity upsetting, also emotional intelligence. maybe you don’t.
Ah yes, let all those white kids say “the rapper word” (as it was known in my time), slavery is over, segregation is over, those who still discriminate are just jerks, and being black is a nice filter to know who your real friends are. /s
Now people openly laugh at us for not having a solution to homelessness besides renaming them “unhoused.”
As long as one ignores all the solutions that capitalists dont like, sure. We also cant figure out why people starve while we’re at it.
If you’re serious about helping the homeless, don’t spent scant attention antagonizing potential supporters over vocabulary.
No dude, the PC mob in the 90s were pricks trying to police language. The result came in the 2010s when the UK enacted Section 5 of public order act. Which say a kid arrested and actually in fucking court for calling a horse “gay”. And other for saying “woof” to a fucking dog!
The problem is that all those people who wanted that shit, were just thin skinned little bitches. And now that virtue signalling is all the rage, everything is offensive now. “Sticks and stones and may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.”. Yet here we are, and everyone is clutching their pearls over anything that will get them a worthless up arrow.
Part of free speech is about being allowed to offend people. You are totally free to criticise the person, and whatever he or she might be saying and who they are saying it too. But the fundamental right to offend is something that should be protected by all of us. Or one day, you might just find yourself in trouble with the law, because someone claims to be offended at using the word “fascist” because what you called fascist, didnt rise to horrors of history attributed to that.
And now we have the online safety act in the UK, which is spreading to other countries where you have to show ID to use social media among other things, when it was only ever supposed to be used for porn sites.
But dont take my word for it. Mr Bean said it much better than I ever could:
I get what you are saying but if idiotic and imbecile are still available as insults and are further from medical definition than retard then why not just use them instead? The point being is that retard still has the bite of comparing the person to the mentally disabled and the others don’t.
Languages evolve. It’s a very common thing for descriptors of negative things to become slang for insults. Not to say we should be encouraging this behavior, but rather that policing it is ineffective at best.
Effective solutions address the underlying issues
(Destigmatization of ailments is a good thing, but doing so by stigmatizing the words themselves often has a Streisand effect)
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Attempting to change “homeless” to “un-housed” is different from just not using a slur — you’re assuming that non-derogatory terms don’t exist for neurodiverse people; there are no “improvements” to be made, just exercising some discretion. You shouldn’t be using slurs just because it’ll turn acceptable soon or because everyone else is using it; if there are people that feel hurt by it and have a history of being marginalized by such usage, you don’t have the right to use it; that is if you are a morally sound person that doesn’t care about BS buzzwords like “political correctness”.
you don’t have the right to use it
So you are about language policing.
Go pound sand.
i’m austistic and love the word retard, really don’t understand peoples need to be offended for others. it’s not remotely close to the n-word, saying “r-word” just makes you seem like a tool imo
But OP worked with “intellectually challenged” ???
Jfc can’t even call myself retarded without offending an unrelated neuro-typical “standing up” for us.
Look we can’t call each other retards because other people will get triggered for us…
Besides every sane person knows that in common speech this is just means “extremely stupid” with no derogatory intent.
“extremely stupid” with no derogatory intent.
I think you should look up the definition of derogatory. Calling someone stupid is derogatory.
You should look up context clues
It doesn’t take much literary analysis to understand that using that word to mean “extremely stupid” is ableist.
How else would you refer to people with below average critical thinking skills who perform actions without understanding or considering the consequences.
Please keep your answer non-derogatory.
I never said it’s wrong to call people stupid.
The derogatory intent is directed at the insult target, not an uninvolved group of people, is what they meant.
I meant derogatory towards disabled people.
Riiiiight, in the same way people used to pair it with motions mimicking cerebral palsy? Do you also believe that didn’t have derogatory intent towards people with disabilities and only meant “extremely stupid”? 🙄
motions mimicking cerebral palsy
I’ve no idea what that even is. Sounds like some pseudo science
You don’t remember when people used to imitate spasticity by curling their hands and whacking their chests while changing their voice? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic_cerebral_palsy It was extremely common to do when calling people that word.
You don’t remember when people used to imitate spasticity
I don’t. Never even heard about that disease.
BTW: People over internet don’t know who you are, what race you are, and what disabilities you have. If you get called a brain dead retard, it because some dumb shit you wrote. Nothing less, nothing more
These stupid wars on words IMHO is the reason why “liberals” were regarded as a joke prior to trump election
Like banning “master” in github as well as dumb, regex based words filters in chats. Oh you want to mention the “beta version”? Too bad, a social justice warrior decided that “beta” is now offensive, you have to change your language so that you wont affect the hypothetic easily offendable persons
Like banning “master” in github as well as dumb
Master wasn’t banned. The default name was changed from master to main. Literally nothing is stopping you from choosing to use master.
“Morally banning”. But you got my point
While this is technically correct, when you say “we’re switching the default branch name from master to main to be less culturally insensitive”, you kind of imply that people who continue using master are culturally insensitive. And nobody likes being called that (generally), so it still feels like a ban to people.
That implication is correct?
Look, if it’s pointed out that “x” makes some minorty uncomfortable, but you keep using “x”, you are culturally insensitive to that minority. You can choose to be, nobody would care if you’re not a person/company with milliona of followers.
That’s entirely assuming that there indeed is a sizeable minority that have reason to be offended and indeed are offended. In the cited example above, that wasn’t the case so there was significant controversy surrounding what was perceived as “performative activism” that benefitted noone.
“We’re switching from master to main” was controversial? My god, people must’ve been bored out of their fucking minds.
You know how a normal person would react to this? ‘k.’
That’s entirely assuming that there indeed is a sizeable minority that have reason to be offended and indeed are offended. In the cited example above, that wasn’t the case
A 1s websearch says this is false. BLM movement is definitely a “sizable minority” whatever that means.
You know how a normal person would react to this? ‘k.’
I reacted like this too. But you I don’t think the opponents had invalid arguments to be honest. It was mostly:
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Lack of an actual outcry to change it.
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‘Master’ in git did not have any connotations to slavery, so there was no reason to be offended by it (different from eg master/slave databases or something).
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The change was hamfisted through without the community actually finding consensus and agreeing with the change.
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It invalidates 15 years of git tutorials, which is confusing for newbies.
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The defaults for git mismatched with the default in github, which as a very large player put undue corporate pressure on the git project to go along with the change.
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Changing the branch name does have impact on users, which without a good reason to change it is unnecessary.
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And the big one: the rename is just performative. If you want to address inequality in tech, make sure people of colour get the same access and opportunities that white people get. Github in particular was ridiculed because they pretended to be so socially conscious, but as it turns out despite having black employees, not one of them had managed to promote into a management function at the time. They put up a smokescreen but did not make any actually impactful changes that improved the position of people of colour, and in doing so abused the BLM movement for PR purposes.
A 1s websearch says this is false. BLM movement is definitely a “sizable minority” whatever that means.
BLM didn’t advocate for this though! Microsoft/Github sort of assumed they would, so decided to change it. But I can’t find any actual outcry that it should be changed from those who were supposedly offended by the term.
Fair points.
Weirdly, that BLM source in wikipedia led nowhere. My fault for not checking.
However performative it may have seen at the time, I’m glad the terms are gone. Master/slave was particularly uncomfortable to use for me personally (I mainly associate it with BDSM)
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While they are incorrect about the specific term, their main point is correct. “Slave” was removed from the terminology. Same with Blacklist and Whitelist. They are no longer the preferred terms.
Wait, you’re not supposed to say blacklist and whitelist anymore? Shit.
Nope. Blocklist and Allowlist I believe. Because despite having no racist origins, “black” being the “bad” list and “white” being the “good” list made some people uncomfortable. It’s the perfect example of meaningless surface level changes imo
Yeah I mean if that’s the standard I’m fine with it. But as I mentioned in a reply to somebody else, to make something black you don’t add darkness, you subtract light. So inherently black is subtraction and white is addition. Saying that addition is good and subtraction is bad is like a weird byproduct of “positive” meaning good and “negative” meaning bad, when they are just numbers on either side of zero.
Colors are additive or subtractive depending on the medium, so you are entirely wrong here and just spouting nonsense, fyi. Paints are additive, light is subtractive. All colors of light makes white and all colors of paint makes black.
What does black paint do to light?
I used to have a word for how ridiculous this is but the op said I shouldn’t use it anymore
deleted by creator
Now it’s CaucasianList and AfricanAmericanList.
Where is the AsianList? I thought we were supposed to be inclusive now!
Why does one automatically associate black with bad and white with good? Think about it.
Remember that we also do things subliminally. So black = bad rubs off on people who can be called “black”.
I mean I get it, but I never thought of it that way. Like black is the absence light or color. You don’t add darkness to something to make it black, you subtract light, color, energy etc. So black is “negative”. White is the opposite of black. On a color slider, it’s all of everything all the way, it’s “positive”, and I don’t mean “positive = good” way, I mean like mathematically positive, like a “+” sign. Like do electricians need to stop using black cables for negative? It just seems like a reach unless it originally had some racist etymology. Like if the term" blacklist"was originally used by restaurant owners during segregation and they didn’t allow black people in, or anybody on the “blacklist” because anybody on that list should be treated as if they were black then I would be like “Oh yeah holy shit, we should definitely not use that term”. But I think saying black is negative and white is positive has both scientific and mathematical origins.
I’m fine with using blocklist and allowlist. I guess I just never got the memo that we weren’t supposed to use blacklist and whitelist.
You don’t add darkness to something to make it black, you subtract light, color, energy etc.
Except you do, when you’re using additive mixing (I.e paint)
I’m not saying it’s that it’s inherently racist. I’m saying that black people rightfully dislike that “black” is associated with “negative”
But I think saying black is negative and white is positive has both scientific and mathematical origins.
It has neither.
It’s almost like it’s a common theme that dark, dingy, places are associated with danger and bright warm areas are associated with safety, life, purity, truth, etc. and when you simplify that to a basic theme, you end up with black = bad and white = good. It’s a theme that springs up from nature itself.
Which further goes to my point: the words are just placeholders for feelings and emotions. So to change the words does nothing to change the feelings. If you remove all the hateful words, you won’t remove hate. You’ll just end up with “I hope you unalive yourself you bottom of the bell curve” instead.
Dark places aren’t inherently more dangerous. Light, bright areas aren’t inherently positive.
These are the subliminal ideas that were put into your head by literature, religion, popular culture, etc (that was often seeped in racism).
Just like numbers aren’t inherently good or bad, but certain numbers rise associations with “good” or “bad” 3, 7, 13, 666, 777, Etc.
“Nature itself” argument is completely BS, as many animals hunt and spring to life at night, while daytime and light means danger to them.
Dark cave vs open meadow.
Clear skies vs stormy clouds.
Clear still water vs murky turbulent water.
Death and decay vs life.
But nah, I’m just making up literary themes that have existed for centuries. For fucks sake, the vast majority of horror movies rely on darkness.
The fucking yin yang is literally the fusion of light and darkness, good and evil.
You’re just being intentionally obtuse or you’re really that dumb that you don’t get any of these themes.
Also man in the middle changing to “on path”
Wtf?
New preferred term for MitM attacks is “on path” attacks, in pretty much every updated cert doctrine that discusses the concept.
Now that is dumb, way dumber than “blacklist/whitelist”, “master/slave controllers”. You could make it gender-neutral without even changing the acronym!
Man in the middle --> Monkey in the middle, Moron in the middle, Maggot in the middle, etc
If you want to be bureaucratic, you could just say “Attacker in the middle”.
The new term is more obscure and less specific, since it does not have the “middle” component.
“X in the middle” = there’s something between two points, in the middle of them.
WTF does “on path” mean? Something is on a path?
I agree. It’s dumb, and less intuitive as to what it’s describing.
Tbh “r-tarded” is much better anyway it’s funny as hell
Retarded is a word that is now used exclusively to talk about people who are not mentally ill acting like dumb fucking cunts. Like, its totally retarded to see people getting upset at Trump being called a retard… If you hear the word, and you think about actual disabled people. Thats a you thing. Cos I promise you, no one else is.
No one is looking at this, and thinking that anyone else, but Trump, is a fucking retard.
77 million votes, and he’s the retard?
Yes, America has a retard problem. Theres at least 77 million of them…
It’s like that South Park episode with the bikers.
Well, no, Trump was specifically mimicking a specific reporter with a congenital joint condition in that image. So I don’t really get why you don’t think that’s Trump not being disparaging. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34930042
I think you need to read what I wrote again, Chief. Cos I never made that claim.
Retarded is a word that is now used exclusively to talk about people who are not mentally ill acting like dumb fucking cunts. Like, its totally retarded to see people getting upset at Trump being called a retard… If you hear the word, and you think about actual disabled people. Thats a you thing. Cos I promise you, no one else is.
No one is looking at this, and thinking that anyone else, but Trump, is a fucking retard.
Trump didn’t call anyone ”stupid” when he did that. Nor did he even use that word you said he did. He was imitating someone with a disability.
Now, the poor guy, you’ve got to see this guy: ‘Uhh, I don’t know what I said. Uhh, I don’t remember,’ he’s going like ‘I don’t remember. Maybe that’s what I said’
The reporter he’s talking about:
Again, you need to read what I wrote again. Because I didnt say what you are saying I said.
Again, Trump wasn’t even using the word this thread is about in that picture but he was mimicking someone with a disability so I don’t see what point you’re even trying to make.
One last time, read what I said again. I am not saying what you are saying I said.
What do you think I think you’re saying?
People who are literally retarded are not the ones reading this post, or surfing the internet in general. People who are literally retarded can’t read.
“bUt Im NeurOdiVERgent!”
Shut the fuck up. We’re not talking about you. Lemmy seems to think they’re all special mental cases. No, everything I see on here about ADHD and autism is mostly normal human foibles. My daughter is both, a little strange to me, nothing crazy, I can still relate to most of her “issues”. I understand she sees the world differently than me, I try to adjust for that.
Growing up and navigating the most complex society we’ve ever faced, and didn’t evolve for, can be quite a challenge. Suck it up buttercup. Recognize your strengths, recognize your weaknesses, don’t be hurt by fucking words. If being called names breaks your spine, well, you’re not going to do well on this planet.
The whole thing is made up hate by people who had their feelings hurt being called retarded in school. It’s a 4th-grade insult that snowflakes have decided is now a “seriously harmful” term. I’ve been called the dreaded “F” word 1,000 times, so what? Didn’t turn me gay or even hurt my fee fees.
In 5-years “stupid” will be outlawed. There will be a YouTube video of some teen crying their eyes out, relating how being called stupid ruined their whole life and now they have to kill themselves. “Idiot” will be banned by 2027. Any words that could possibly be understood as negative adjectives describing a human being will be verboten by 2030.
Bless your heart!
I’ve been called the dreaded “F” word 1,000 times,
Put your money where your mouth is and say it if your argument is that people shouldn’t censor them, coward.
Lol, thanks, made me chuckle
They do have some special needs
