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Remember, if you sit at the table with Nazis, you’re a Nazi!
So yeah, BoTh PaRtIeS strikes again, sorry
What if I’m sitting with them in order to better slip some poison in their drink when not looking?
I think that’s fine, because if you do it right, you will be sitting at a table with corpses instead of Nazis. You might run into trouble with unrelated aspects of the social contract (re: dining with corpses), but at the least the Nazi problem would be solved
I would say nazism as an ideology was not defeated (yeah i know it still exists, thats not the point) by fighting. It was a long process of re-education after the war. The nazis did not woke up the next day and said: “we lost, i guess the jews are ok now”
So long as we live under the hierarchical authority of nation-states that creates the authoritative dynamic for fascism to take root, further enabled by the capitalist hegemony and the private ownership of necessity resources that keeps people reliant on these hierarchical powers, we will never truly defeat fascism. They will just run back to their hovels and bide time as the system helps them to consolidate wealth and power until they can again make their play for power.
I would say there are more Nazis now then there were in WW2, they just don’t wear those uniforms, which were the best thing about the Nazis. So weird.
I love when people say violence against fascism is fascism… how dumb are you?
They’re the orange cat of people, malicious, disruptive, destructive, and only have a community brain cell to share around them.
This meme accidentally proves the point: you don’t beat authoritarianism by copying its methods.
The cure for fascism is… politically-motivated threats of brutal physical violence? That’s literally fascism.
Hate this. This is not fascism. It’s arguably not even one of the tenets of fascism. That user has no clue what they’re talking about.
The reply under it was pretty good though.
Would you agree that Nazis utilized ultraviolence frequently, from day one in 1925 or so to their defeat 20 years later, and that they made use of truncheons and fought against the same from start to finish? To stop a bad guy with a bat you need a good guy with a bat.
I can see how someone might make that assumption.
Also, please recall that Baron Blood was a vampire bat, and he was defeated by Man Bat. Full stop, I win.
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I refer to it as the tolerance pact. I’ll tolerate the weird things you do, so long as they don’t significantly affect the unwilling. In return, I expect you to tolerate the same from my weird stuff.
There’s also a slightly weaker addition where I will help stand up for those that are both under the pact and under attack. (“They came for…”)
Nazis and an alarming section of the political right are breaking that pact. They are void of protection by it.
This solution always made sense to me:
Another solution is to place tolerance in the context of social contract theory: to wit, tolerance should not be considered a virtue or moral principle, but rather an unspoken agreement within society to tolerate one another’s differences as long as no harm to others arises from same. In this formulation, one being intolerant is violating the contract, and therefore is no longer protected by it against the rest of society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance?wprov=sfla1
Exactly. Don’t tolerate the intolerant.
Spot on.
I said this before and a bunch of Nazis down voted it because they didn’t like me opening them up to getting thier shit kicked in
“a bunch of Nazis” on Lemmy?
They exist here. Not to be confused with the Tankies, who hold almost identical views but with a coat of red paint.
I’ve been here a couple years and haven’t seen any notable indication that Nazis are on this platform
Maybe the nazi instances are defederated
There was a whole instance, explodingheads, check your instance blocklist to make sure
So Tankies, Republicans, Russians, Independents and Greens (which are secret Rs), and Nazis are all Nazis, as is everyone who sits at the table with any of these Nazi flavors, exceptions to this rule including but not limited to Ukrainians, Chinese, Indians, North Koreans, Iran, and Democrats.
No, all authoritarians are basically the same kind of asshole, and Tankies are pure authoritarians.
And since the very first use of the terms left vs right, was a question of Authoritarianism vs Democracy, a question of unelected monarchy vs the power of the people.
Only later were economic terms added, because Marx envisioned a truly democratic economy.
And then Lenin betrayed the revolution, and then wrote about how betrayal of the revolution and establishment of a dictatorship was what Marx wanted.
Lenin had the actual communists who won the November 1917 election arrested as traitors.
If you are authoritarian, you are not of the left. Full stop.
Nazis are nazis. None of the other things you listed are nazis. Even the comment you are replying to did not say they are nazis, they said they hold similar views to nazis. There are people in the US right now who say “I am a nazi.” Those people are nazis. This is probably the worst comment to reply to for that gotcha.
So you CAN sit at a table with Nazis and not be a Nazi!? This is really going to shake things up!
Your comment is not the worst, hold your chin up
There used to be an entire instance of them called Exploding Heads. Pretty much every instance has defederated on them, so I don’t know if that server is still alive. There’s always more nazi servers being made to get around defederation, but they usually end up re-quarantined eventually
up votes X 1bil
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The whole tolerance false dichotomy thing lacking nuance.
Intolerance is not the same thing as not tolerating something.
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Also, that’s not literally fascism.
I was a lot more cool will “beat down nazis” when I thought everyone knew “nazi” meant “fans of Adolf Hitler, the Third Reich, and their racist political philosophy and policy programs”, but I feel like I see way too many people using them term as a generic insult or a label for “anyone to the right of Stalin”.
And I’m frustrated by that because I’m in the USA and the government is out of control. Oh and baseball bats won’t solve it.
So… You mean they have to be German too? I mean they are dressed up, armed and parading US cities already!
Since you seem to think I’m being overly pedantic in my description of nazis, I think you might be one of the people I’m talking about.
I do agree that America has a problem with fascists out in the streets. Maybe if you and your local softball team had been better organized before this wouldn’t have happened. Or maybe the efficacy of bats doesn’t extend much beyond the edges of your local punk bar. And anyway it’s not like it’s just screwdriver fans I’m worried about these days.
If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck…
Yeah the first point was about the inability to sort and identify.
Language is not prescriptivist, it evolves and changes and so do the definitions and contexts of words based on how they are used. Your whole point is outdated and detached from the concept of how language works and is applied.
Nazi cunts can fuck off.
Actually my point is firmly anchored to the reality of linguistic descriptivism. Insofar as I’ve seen a wide range of ideologies and people with diverse views called nazis (by equally diverse people), whose views don’t mesh with my prior understanding of the term as I mentioned above, I actually hesitate to nod along with generic calls to beat up nazis.
Like to put it less plainly, neo-Nazis are nazis, skinheads are nazis, advocates for White Nationalism are nazis, KKK are nazis, but who else does the speaker mean? Like I literally don’t know.
Stop defending nazis, you fucking putz.
I’m not defending nazis you illiterate toad.
You are, though, and you’re being an annoying pedant.
Reality check.
We aren’t voting our way out of this. That shipped sailed in 2024.
When the orange rapist dies, all the fascists still exist. They’ll still need to be dealt with.
Vote our way out of what?
Idk the majority of people who voted DID vote for Trump, and generally people like Bernie just didn’t get votes because Americans are propagandized against “”“socialism”“”. I guess the DNC basically refuses to give us a good candidate though but I’m not sure how to solve that.
And the Cheeto got less votes than he did the first time around. People are fed up with the system on both sides it seems.
That’s totally true… but we currently have masked goons grabbing people off the street and locking them in cages in mystery torture camps; massive technology oligarch empires attempting to subjugate the entire world; and a population letting all of that happen.
Stephen miller occupying the top 3 spots on the list…
It’s always morally correct to beat the shit out of Nazis. And if they don’t like that, they can always stop being Nazis.
That second sentence is why I’m against just killing them. Beat them until they grow but you don’t need to just kill people
Yeah you don’t need to kill them. Just mark them for life like the one guy at the end of Inglorious Bastards.
Sure they can stop being nazis but their victims can’t stop being dead. Stop the threat first and foremost.
You can give them the opportunity but the moment they refuse to take it then you do what needs doin to protect those around you from them.
“they can always stop being Nazis.”
Assholes:
“Well you can also stop being the thing that you’re being oppressed for!”
Me:
“Stop being disabled? Yeah, no, I wish I could, but the only way I could stop being disabled is by not being alive”
Assholes:
“…”
Me:
“Oh, that’s what you meant, isn’t it? Cool, so you’re not just a Nazi apologist, you’re literally a Nazi. Good to know”
So you’re saying a racist bigot is disabled? That hatred and violent behavior is inherent and unchangeable? I’m missing the point I think here.
Nah, what he’s saying is that assholes would try to turn the argument around by saying that the oppressed could also stop being the thing
Literally had this exact conversation with a “loving Christian” who told me to 41% myself
Her words.
It’s worse than that she asked me to “try to convince my peers to make it 100%”
Why did this get downvotes
The nazis don’t realize they aren’t anonymous on Lemmy
they can always stop being Nazis
I think that’s something a lot of right wing people struggle to comprehend.
Left wing violence is targeted toward those who would do us harm, i.e. Nazis. It’s self defence.
Right wing violence is targeted toward those who they believe is causing harm. In their minds it’s the same justification, self defence.
The difference is you can choose to be intolerant or not, you can choose to treat others with kindness or not, you can choose to be a Nazi or not. You can’t choose whether you’re gay, black, trans, disabled, Jewish, whatever form of “other” they have chosen.
Obviously there’s also the fact that being “other” isn’t harmful in any way. But that’s a separate rabbithole of delusion that needs tackled.
they think we are driven by the same fears as them and that these fears are universal to the human experience rather than them not confronting and processing their traumas
I don’t even believe it’s traumas. Most hatred is born from lack of experience and therefore empathy. The trauma they claim is usually fantasy, to feed into the mentality that they are right to be afraid. Like the whole oppressed Christian rhetoric I was fed at an early age, it doesn’t exist in the US. Pray to the guy on the cross, I won’t stop you. Just don’t him as an excuse for causing harm to others. You can practice your religion, but it shouldn’t stop others from living their lives without fear or harm.
But Christians have been using him as an excuse for violence since they were Jews, probably because he was said to be so violent (per his own words and Revelation, in which he is downright murderous)
I so want to go back to a wave of media about brutal violence towards Nazis.
Sure, put in a moral dilemma. A little “Is it really okay for us to be doing this?” Just certify that the answer is YES.
Only it’s worse than fascism now.
Fascism is old hat, today we’re dealing with its evolved for in modern authoritarianism.
What we are dealing with today is something even Goebbels couldn’t have come up with. How they have made their evil, hateful ideology permeate everything through association and some really effective and sophisticated psychology.
Trump isn’t the architect of it, he is just a beneficiary.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi
Oh, I don’t know, I think the ones that have been lit on fire are alright.
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Narrator Voice: This kills the Nazi.
This is so stupid, that’s not the cure for fascism, beating them with bats?! Honestly.
That’s a short term treatment at best. At least drive some nails in that thing.
Providing a treatment and not a cure… Typical big pharma!
I find the analogy of the immune system useful in this respect: a tiered response, where the initial response is mainly about recruiting useful cells to the area. Some immune cells work by immobilising a pathogen and signalling to more specialist cells to come in and properly sort stuff out (prize for the most badass sounding cell is the T-killer cell). In this analogy, the people with regular bats are the ones immediately disabling the Nazi, keeping them down until the specialists with nails come along
The cure comes with not putting down the bat.
we defeated fascism in WW2
:3
And we’ll do it again!
Still need to do it constantly.
This meme accidentally proves the point: you don’t beat authoritarianism by copying its methods.
It sure as Hell beat these fascists.
So what’s the plan then buddy? Because the authoritarians have no problem with violence.
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