I try to view the liberal “this isn’t us” and “wow, this is just like [other country]” as a sign of progress because it means that not only do they acknowledge it’s bad, they are trying to form a national identity that explicitly rejects these values.
It’s far from perfect, but it’s a lot better than condoning it.
Most? Well that’s a nice claim. I wonder if it’s true. Kinda think not. Kinda think passiveness was more common.
Most white people opposed the civil rights movement back in the day.
Most white people are racist. I wish lemmy would filter out you insufferable ackshully’s from my inbox.
I always wonder how true the most white people are racist statement is. I don’t think I’m racist, I think I value people the same regardless of the color of their skin. I sometimes wonder if I’m wrong about myself, maybe I am racist in some way but am blind to it. How would I even know?
I think if it’s true that most white people are racist, then that means most people are racist, because people are people and white people can’t have a monopoly on being shit bags.
None of the above statements are intended to negate what’s happening in the world today, or the abuses and horrors being inflicted.
I sometimes wonder if I’m wrong about myself, maybe I am racist in some way but am blind to it. How would I even know?
My stance is that everyone is at least a little racist, in some way. Racism is such an essential part of society and culture, probably almost everywhere by now, that no one can avoid it entirely. However, we can try to recognize it in ourselves and other people and minimize it, and that’s what really makes the difference, the end goal being to eradicate racism entirely (also apply this to all kinds of -isms and -phobias you can think of).
Maybe there are people who have cleansed themselves entirely of racism. In my view, that’s comparable to achieving some sort of enlightened or transcendent state, which most of us can only aspire to.
Rotten apples
…spoil the bunch.
Which means it doesn’t excuse the white people who sat by and watched and did nothing about it.
That looks like a few barrels worth
At least a tonne
TIL, my grandparents were white.
it says “most of”
Well its a black and white photo, color had not been invented yet.
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“Leftists” will be arguing ideological purity while getting ambushed in the woods
“Leftists” will be inadvertently getting leftists ambushed in the woods by inviting fascists and liberals into their organizations.
Purity testing like not doing genocide, not doing economic warfare or regime changes
What’s crazy is in my area, most people are Cajun, the Cajuns faced so much discrimination, deportation and even an attempted genocide, and successful assimilation, Cajun French is essentially a dead language. Their Great and great great grandparents were facing discrimination for being accepting of people of color and for not speaking English. Yet due to lack of education of their own history most Cajuns don’t realize they’re perpetuation the very I justices their ancestors went through, hell, half there’s a huge population of cajuns that are POC and don’t even realize it!
These are the people in power now. There should be an international year or celebration when the last person born before the year 2000 dies, with minor celebrations for each decade leading up to that year.
Heyyy that photo was taken a couple miles from where I am sitting. Terrifying.
When I moved here, we rented a house in an all-black neighborhood. They weren’t um, super warm. In my “post-racial white savior” mentality, I’m like, this is odd, I’m trying to desegregate this place! Eventually one neighbor took the time to kindly educate me. Many of those older folks had family, grandparents and uncles, who were lynched in pubic. Many of them remember that photo being taken, most knew the Little Rock Nine personally. Their neighborhood was about safety, about a place they could be without constant worry. They reflexively did not like seeing young white folks move in. Holy shit I suddenly got it. As a gay guy I could imagine that applying to my own minority status.
I live in a gayborhood now and sure enough, as the house next door goes on the market, we’re trying to make it clear conservative straight folks are not welcome.
Perspective is interesting. I keep my mouth shut and my ears open when it comes to race, cause I grew up in a literally all-white town.
I’d be careful about saying you “got” it. You got a glimpse of it.
I remember going into a segregated laundromat in 2005 in Alabama. It wasn’t legally segregation, but they absolutely had a black and a white laundromat, and I (white dude) went into the wrong one and felt very uncomfortable with all the looks I was given. I was eventually approached and told to leave and go to the white one, which happened to be much nicer, of course.
I thought at the time that I suddenly understood it. But black people deal with thay every fucking day, and I do not “get it” because of 10 minutes of racial discomfort in my 20s.
American liberals spent YEARS fighting anyone who suggested racism was still alive in america. But how could it be? They elected a half black man as president?
Nevermind the indiscriminate bombings by said psychopath and the first election of trump. During bidens term, racism was dead again! Somehow!
Until those very same liberals used racism to explain kamala harris’ rejection by the public. Even to this day they won’t attribute racism in explaining ice’s actions. In fact most didn’t care how many people died at ice’s hands until white people got shot in the face.
In summary, americans, and yes american liberals are deeply racist, selfish and uneducated people. Their worldview makes no sense. And they are all unfathomably, profoundly stupid.
Please tell me you’re from a troll farm. Bcz this is a hot take if I’ve ever seen one.
You make me sick. If you find what I said surprising, then what your country is was made for and by you.
Open your eyes and demand better.
No, it’s actually pretty lukewarm to anyone who has been able to engage with critiques of liberalism without jumping into defense mode these past few years.
Yeah, sometimes I think this site is really stupid. Everything is an argument about who is the most left wing pure individual. And then we wonder why the right has taken over this country and we’re closer than ever to a literal christiofascist dictatorship.
The reason is that liberal democracies are dictatorships of capital, where the elites have massive power over who even gets to run as a candidate, what ideas are acceptable and so on. We can’t win in this system because the system is rigged from beginning to end, and even when we do miraculously win we can get our elected officials killed and replaced. Look at what they did to Salvador Allende in Chile.
The game is rigged in such a way where one party can simply be extremely exploitative and violent and the other party can be 99% the same and sometimes win by saying “we’re not THOSE guys”. You need money for campaigns, so you can’t realistically threaten billionaires, and if you do betray them they won’t have any qualms getting rid of you illegally.
It’s not our collective fault, or purity testing, or whatever else, it’s the system working as intended for the people who pull the strings, just look at the people in the Epstein files and notice that both parties engaged in the debauchery, look at how Bernie was betrayed by the DNC, and so on and on.
But hey, if purity testing is not being okay with genocide or invading and bombing people in the global south I’m glad there are leftists who do purity testing.
Right…I’m so glad we are now importing our awful foreign policies at home 🙄
American liberals spent YEARS fighting anyone who suggested racism was still alive in america.
The standard line was that racism was a Southern trait, while Northern and Western liberals had somehow expunged themselves of the habit. At the same time, you had liberals from the Carter era onward bemoaning failures within the African American and Latin American communities to integrate properly. It was always the minority’s fault for failing to conform. It was never racism among liberals that widened the divide.
Even to this day they won’t attribute racism in explaining ice’s actions. In fact most didn’t care how many people died at ice’s hands until white people got shot in the face.
You can run this all the way back to the LA Riots, easily enough. Nevermind the anti-Muslim racism of the post-9/11 era, the Obama-era backlash to civil rights movements during Occupy and then again during BLM. It’s always and forever the minority’s fault for objecting to oppression. People of Color are never sufficiently civil. They don’t respect the norms. They want special favors. They can’t be trusted to argue in good faith. They’ve got dual loyalties. They’re not real Americans.
Even when you have Obama or Harris on the fucking ballot, you need them or their proxies effectively apologizing for their blackness and denouncing anyone of color who doesn’t agree with their neoliberal politics.
In summary, americans, and yes american liberals are deeply racist, selfish and uneducated people.
I don’t think they’re uneducated. All too often, I’ve seen racism taught - implicitly or explicitly - as justification for the modern social order. They’re educated in bigotry. They’re trained to think like this.
This is a phenomenal take. I have no notes and agree with that perspective. It is reinforced and baked into educational institutions, on top of implicit education like social control. Fantastic stuff, thank you.
Its funny, if liberals spent half as much energy actually fighting racism rather than the idea it still exists maybe we would actually be getting somewhere
What’s the argument here? Is it that America has always been that? YES, WE KNOW, WE WANT THAT TO CHANGE.
You’re canadian. Perhaps you can see it clearer,
But americans DON’T see this. Their eyes must be pryed open.
The land of refuge for SS division Galizien, the trucker convoy, starlight tours, etc…
As a European I had the wrong idea that Canada was better/different, boy was I wrong.Canada IS in many ways better and different than america. The problem is that the bar is DISTURBINGLY low.
true, they have more rights for their citizens, etc…
somewhat European, but the right-wing influence is on American level.When comparing 2 countries you can’t just focus on “Politics”. Theres much more like levels of education, wealth disparity, like how the judiciary functions to consider too.
There are many realms of life where canada rofl stomps america.
Yes the right wing political influence is bad. It is a present threat and it comes from america. But you have to see that it also doesn’t have widespread support. Canadians hate that shit and refuse to tolerate it more so than americans.
And in a period of post-covid economic struggle, canadians succumbed to the brain worms and immigrant blaming that you see world wide, but they ultimately overcame it.
They didn’t allow right wing rhetorician who would inevitably make things worse to seize power. In fact he didn’t even win his own seat during the last election.
(This is not to say canada is perfect or even great for it’s citizens, but again if you are comparing to america it is bar none superior)
When comparing 2 countries you can’t just focus on “Politics”.
I don’t.
Yes the right wing political influence is bad. It is a present threat and it comes from america
Now that I totally disagree with.
Of course influence from the US is never good but Canadians have ample racism and fascism all by their own doing.
Not in the least by the Ukrainian influence.They didn’t allow right wing rhetorician who would inevitably make things worse to seize power. In fact he didn’t even win his own seat during the last election.
Plenty other politicians from your parties have shown awfully racist behavior.
Also they still support and even arm israeli genociders, help the US and other regimes in war crimes, etc…
Not to mention the eternal racism against natives.Obviously compared to the US Canada is less bad, still it’s despicable and unacceptable in many ways and you portraying it favorably is a lot of wishfull thinking at best, if not delusional.
Maybe you’re Canadian and have no frame of reference except the shithole taht is the US.
I can’t seem to find a place where we disagree. You seem to want to bloviate on about how canada is complicit in global death and destruction and suffering. These facts are undeniable.
My point is and always has been, that canada is not as bad as the us. Literally not that canada is good, which you seem to be misconstruing it as. So either argue for canada being worse than the us, or lets agree to agree and fuck off.
I DON’T BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE.
Ah yeah, you’re right. Let’s back the faschists together! 🩷
We’re in .ml it’s a Russian psyop
Cringe
Any evidence?
I think they’re just hoping because if y’all do it for free it gets a little sad.
I pay dues to the org I work with, I don’t think it’s sad at all to want the working classes to finally be liberated, and work towards that goal.
Nah, in this thread no less that 4 users on ML basically said wipe America out, despite millions protesting, despite the systemic issues like vote suppression and first pass the post that allowed them to win you put all of the sins on the general public which is problematic at best.
I’m not saying that America is good, under its current leadership it is absolutely a destabilizing force in the world. But to pass those sins onto the general public is troublesome.
I want you to imagine if people said the same thing about Russia or China or Israel. Do you understand how many innocent people would die for the actions of their government? There would be no nation left because no nation is without guilt.
You’re both right because there is no We in America.
That is the problem we must solve.
Perhaps there should be no “america” at all. Seems like that option would save the world from a lot of death, and destruction and economic rape.
It depends on if you are talking about the entity or the people in the entity.
If the former, I do not disagree. There need not be states at all in fact, as a matter of preference.
If you are talking about the people, well, it sounds like you are talking about more death and destruction so no thanks.
Strongest Reader in America Award 🏅
Why don’t you re-read my comment and see if I said “America” or, “Americans”.
Take your time, I’ll wait.
That is very kind of you. I am a strong reader; in fact I’m not too humble to mention that I was the recipient of multiple Pizza Hut Personal Pan Pizzas in my youth, as recognition for my excellent reading skills, and so it is touching for you to recognize it.
My fellow strong readers will be well aware that there are multiple ways for a country to cease existing. Some peaceful, and some violent.
As thoroughly insightful, erudite, and compellingly written as that gem of a comment was, it did not specify. And given your server, it seemed prudent to seek specifics.
Thank you for the helpful response.
“Communists want to kill all americans”
You got it buddy, I’m against human death and destruction, EXCEPT for americans somehow. Because they aren’t people? Or something?
Yeah that would be a weird contingency, especially because it was never stated or suggested. This strawman, conceived entirely of your preconceived notions, that you started arguing against, would indeed be illogical. Great shit sherlock.
So keep your medallion, you’ve earned it. And I’m glad we wasted all this time appealing to your nonsensical and delicate sensibilities. Your superior mind is exactly why commies want to kill you. You’re just too motherfuckin smart.
It cannot change as a nation. Any movement for federal reform is a lost cause. Certain states and municipalities could change, and that is where the future is for some citizens.
Racism is imbued in America’s DNA. It’s never easy to root out something so foundational. It takes a real hard look in the mirror and, let’s be honest, when America looks at itself in the mirror it isn’t for self-reflection.
Members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white-collar workers—themselves desperately afraid of being downsized—are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.
At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking for a strongman to vote for — someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots. A scenario like that of Sinclair Lewis’ novel It Can’t Happen Here may then be played out. For once such a strongman takes office, nobody can predict what will happen. In 1932, most of the predictions made about what would happen if Hindenburg named Hitler chancellor were wildly overoptimistic.
One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past 40 years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion. The words ‘nigger’ and ‘kike’ will once again be heard in the workplace. All the sadism which the academic left has tried to make unacceptable to its students will come flooding back. All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.
Achieving our Country by Richard Rorty (1998).
America isn’t alone in its racism, it’s everywhere.
By no means is it alone but it is absolutely unique in having imported millions of slaves across an ocean, predicating its initial society and economy on a race based caste system. Yes a civil war was fought but, even afterwards, many supported continuing this race based caste system and so it persisted in the form of segregation, which existed during the lives of our parents and grandparents. Without a legitimate act of national reflection and reconciliation these wounds and fault lines won’t heal.
That guy wrote cursive on his sign.
