Im right here with you, I’ve given them a try and I don’t like them. Personally, I feel most rewarded in games that offer long term linear progression and reward my unique way of dealing with changes. Elder Scrolls and Fallout only get good after level 20. My favorite part about Minecraft is the part where I’ve amassed so much that I’m functionally playing creative with gravity and death. I prefer to use my years old character on valhiem, keeping all the stats and having to put away my perfect gear until i reqch the level i need to repair it but content that if the need arises the old armor is there. Skipping there loses the orgamic growth and experiences, but it isn’t truely fun until I get to that point.

I play Nethack. It’s a roguelike.

Honestly a lot of the “sense of superiority” and “these games will beat you senseless” types of sentiments regarding Souls actually stem from some really early marketing decisions that the developers didn’t originally intend

Fromsoft is actually self published in Japan, and Bandai helped them distribute the game to western audiences. There’s a whole essay worth of information we could talk about regarding what was popular in the west at that time, but basically when marketing the game they focussed on the intensity and the violence and how hardcore and badass you’d be for making it through.

It worked like a charm, and the games succeed financially and developed that frankly kinda rancid reputation (fans bragging about finishing a boss, coining “just get good”). It was enough to deter me from getting involved with it for literally a decade, until Sekiro came out

I go crazy for katanas and any samurai type stuff so I jumped in. Had a great experience, still one of my favorite games, and it was enough to get me to go back and try out the older souls games.

And the truth is the games are nothing like what the marketing or the rabid fans would have you believe. The art and presentation is that intense, but the actual game is borderline…cozy? In a weird way?

The thing that trips people up is the game has animation commitment, so once you hit attack you have to wait for the whole move to finish before you can act again. But the enemies are also like that, and furthermore, Fromsoft has the best animation telegraphing in the business. So you can just watch the boss, learn what they’re gonna do, wait to see how long they’re vulnerable after a given attack, and then subsequent times you see that attack you have a good idea of how much time you have to land your own attacks.

So once you “tune in” to this style of combat, it becomes a really meditative experience, one that rewards patience and observation. What makes it work so beautifully is that the presentation and music is so intense, to the point where you can actually become wrapped up in that and lose focus.

So in essence, I would say Souls games more than anything are about cultivating a mentality of remaining calm and peaceful during a storm, and then witnessing how your peaceful nature will allow you to endure any hardship.

We didn’t really get that sentiment much in games in the west at that time. So everything about the perception of the games stems from that. People feel so strongly about finishing the games because doing so genuinely taught them an important lesson. But the early marketing colored the public perception of the experience in a way that really misled many people who I think would ultimately adore the games

Personally, I prefer games that are 3D. The old school style graphics of “roguelike” 2D side scrolling games feels outdated.

I don’t like playing “souls-like” games either. I used to play much harder games when I had all the time in the world to play as a child. But as a working adult, I don’t have such luxury anymore. I still prefer some challenges but i don’t want to crank it up to “souls” difficulty, or even to arcade games difficulty.

I can appreciate a souls-like here and there. Elden Ring and Sekiro are bops. Roguelike? Not so much… except Vampire Survivors or Balatro maybe.

I think there’s a lot of fun to be had in mastering a game.

Some roguelikes are huge, too. Between Dead Cells and Hades 1 I spent over 500 hours playing. I won’t deny that there’s many I’ve gotten maybe 3-10 hours and stopped though. But theres some really good ones, and if you enjoy getting better they can be a blast.

I came down a similar way. Though after years of hearing about the greatness of the genre, especially from FromSoftware games with their masterful design, I could no longer deny my interest, considering I try to be a curious and unbiased person. So I went with Elden Ring. I’ve dropped it several times, because I was bored and it felt like I was wasting time. I still did 100% out of spite, then buried it with no intent to touch it ever again. Still, I appreciate the game design, especially the enemies and the variety of viable builds. However I personally don’t care for these things at all in games, so it wasn’t really something that was meant for me to be enjoyed. I think it’s similar to many of the more popular games of the genre, so I usually skip them. I don’t mind the occasional rougelite to pick up and drop after a few hours though.

PS. I feel bad for FromSoftware. People praise their stuff to the heavens. I’ve seen a handful of people giving constructive criticism only to be met with hate. I’m pretty sure FromSoftware would prefer to receive the criticism to improve instead of being praised from all sides. But then again, I’m not deep enough in their rabbit hole, so that’s just what I see.

I am personally just confused about when rogue like and deck builder became interchangeable

Same here. I grew up on artificially difficult games along with other old millennials. I want a game that respects my time and gives me a sense of progression.

Real life is hard enough. I don’t need more frustration added to a hobby that’s supposed to be fun.

You’re free to like / dislike whatever. As another gamer with thousands of hours, but specifically both these genres, I would say this:

1. Dark Souls as a metaphor for overcoming depression is one of the most emotionally fulfilling experiences I’ve had in my life, and this is specifically DS1. It’s a unique game, with a unique PoV, and really incredible pacing & world design for its release date.
2. I enjoy the “rogue” genre because as a gamer, it requires me to understand the game rules / mechanics and then overcome them. This genre is also very wide, so there’s games that only focus on game knowledge (auto battles or strategy, e.g. Into the Breach) or game’s that also require technical input on top of that knowledge (Binding of Isaac). Some of the best that I’ve played do a great job of making you feel smart for “breaking” the game, but that ability to break it is part of the game itself.

It’s your life, so play & enjoy what you play & enjoy. However, you’re speaking from a place of ignorance (you’ve stated you’ve never played them) & making a judgement (claims of low content, unnecessary difficulty). Doesn’t make a lot of sense of me, but whatever, unpopular opinion I guess. 🤷 GL;HF

If I see another game self-described as an indie retro pixel dungeon Metroidvania soulslike I will punch a wall

I mean I was not even aware of the term when I played elden ring for the first time. Don’t get me started on roguelike though as for me that means in the manner of an ascii dungeon game.

I like roguelites but generally not soulslikes and not gonna try to convince you to like them…but reconsider some of your reasons why:

too small to be a real game,

Is Tetris a “real game”? Games aren’t defined by how much unique gameplay there is

so they made it so you can never win and just have to keep trying

Plenty of roguelites are winnable?? And I’m assuming all soulslikes. Can you win in Civ6?

a game where the difficulty is only there to give people with too much time on their hands a sense of superiority.

This is literally no different than ANY other genre lol

A few generations prior see us mashing buttons all day without any apparent effect. The rules of any game only make sense when you develop your gaming experience to accommodate them. Just like movies only make sense because we choose to believe in the mechanics of storytelling.

The best roguelite to try doesn’t appear to be a rogue-like game at all. It’s called Blue Prince.

So you don’t like pizza. Big deal. Move on with your life.