Thiel is so evil he doesn’t even fit this chart.
Lawful?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) and similar systems
I understand what it is, but I strongly disagree that it applies to these monsters.
Trump chances his mind on policies constantly. He’s governing through chaos. So again Lawful?
Yeah, he’s very much NE.
A throwback to a series of books that (almost) no one talking about the D&D alignment axes (the axes came from the ideas of the books) knows of anymore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melniboné There are actual gods/forces of law and chaos.
I understand that. Why would anyone think any of these men are lawful?
Because the idea of lawful/chaotic NOW draws from the dnd heritage, which has watered down the concepts to ‘follows laws’ and ‘breaks laws’ and sadly, most of these pictured assholes ‘follow’ the laws because their kind got to write the laws. Trump is basically the only exception, and is also basically the only one who is questionably a billionaire.
They absolutely do not follow laws. They break the laws that don’t get charged, like wage laws. And probably half of them have committed r word against kids. They have the appearance of being lawful, because they have enough money to hide their crimes.
Yeah, like even Bill Gates who people like now has a sorid past. Microsoft was doing shady stuff from the beginning, but most notably their antitrust stuff - https://www.leadershipstorybank.com/bill-gates-antitrust-lawsuit-and-microsofts-legal-battles/
Its not so much lawful, but lawful enough that they can outrun the consequences.
lawful
As in “full of law”
Like, just jam-packed stuffed to the gills with law, to the point where they vomit law out into the world and we all boil to death slowly in their law-infused stomach acid
You got me, I immediately scanned the 4 corners for “good” and then sat confused wondering how I misread it.
Trump is a felon, so I am not sure “lawful” is the best fit.
The lawful/chaotic axis represents a person’s willingness to follow an external set of rules against their own instincts or opinions. Having a pocket judge or a pocket president to legitimize one’s actions does not make that person lawful.
He’s definitely chaotic evil.
Lots of devils in the Nine Hells fucked up
Trump isn’t a felon… He’s a multi-felon.
Also
a convicted rapistfound responsible in a civil rape trial.Pedants.
In the interest of accuracy, none of Trump’s 34 convictions were for rape.
He was found to be a rapist as a statement of fact in a civil lawsuit, but that’s not a conviction.
So while he is a convicted felon 34 times over, and a rapist, he’s not a convicted rapist.
So you’re saying he has felonies that he hasn’t been convicted for yet…?
Far too many for me to count. But I’m sure there is someone counting.
Bare in mind that this is just the crimes Trump has committed in public. It will take possibly decades of investigations to figure out.
Not that I think those investigations will come. Trump will likely die in office, either this term or the next ten, because he’s won.
But just because he won doesn’t mean that the people can’t hasten that death in office. Sadly it’s not quite time for that yet. Things need to get worse before they can break cleanly.
Because calling him a proven-in-court-but-technically-not-convicted-because-it-was-a-civil-trial rapist takes too long.
People who multi class are the worst.
true. that’s why i play pathfinder
Unless you are based on Warlock, combat is boring as a higher level 'Lock. (imo, one campaign, around level 7)
He’s neutral evil at best
Musk is definitely not lawful either. Must is pure chaotic evil
Funny to live in times when Villains are in power. Probably in 2060s they will compare them with Hitler.
i feel like it should be more chaotic evil
Ah but they’re the ones that make the laws.
Thats… Thats not how that alignment chart works at all :p. Lawful means they just follow the teachings of something, not that they themselves dictate it.
Chaotic is all for your own personal gain
Nah, don’t forget that DJT is a convicted felon.
unless by lawful you mean they manipulate the law however they please with their money and connections, then no.
um, yeah. that’s literally the difference.
lawful evil is “evil in a suit and tie” while chaotic evil is “monstrous, uncivilized evil.”
You miss the point of the law
That’s the entire schtick of lawful evil. Manipulation, extortion, background deals, and all that.
Trump is Chaotic Evil.
Nah, he’s neutral evil since he both breaks the law when he wants to and exploits it when he can.
Aa law isn’t inherently good or evil, that axis doesn’t have anything to do with HOW evil he is.
In fact, I’d argue that, in a world where some laws (like “don’t murder” and “don’t enslave your workers”) are good but others (like “you don’t have equal rights if you’re any kind of minority or a woman” or “corporations have all of the rights of people and none of the responsibilities”) are inherently oppressive, the only consistently GOOD alignment is Neutral Good.
The chaotic good alignment isn’t any less good because they can simply follow the just laws and break the unjust laws. They might resent the institution of law, but they aren’t obliged to do the opposite of the law, they just will do it for their own reasons instead of the legality. They’re still fundamentally good.
A lawful good character would probably prefer legal methods to fight legal injustice, while a chaotic good character might prefer to break the law as they don’t see legal methods as worth anything/don’t recognize its authority. Both are Good, but they might use different methods when confronted with the same problem.
follow the just laws and break the unjust laws
That would be the very definition of NG, not CG.
they aren’t obliged to do the opposite of the law
No, but they’re actively opposed to the very concept of laws. That’s what “chaotic” means in this context.
Maybe I’m confused what you mean. Being opposed to the concept of laws doesn’t mean you need to break them; you can still think “people shouldn’t murder” or “slavery is bad”. I don’t think incidentally following laws makes you not Chaotic. You just don’t care what the law is; you’d be doing the same thing regardless of whether it was the law or not.
Besides, I’m not sure “opposed to the concept of laws” is really true for all but the most extreme examples of CG. It seems like its more about wanting freedom than just hating laws themselves.
Being opposed to the concept of laws doesn’t mean you need to break them
True, but being opposed to the concept of laws means that you’re more inclined to break laws to achieve your aims than to work within the law.
Chaotic in this context means that you consider the very concept of law an impediment to justice whereas “do good things regardless of whether they’re lawful or illegal” kind of behavior you’re ascribing to chaotic good is the textbook definition of NEUTRAL good.
Besides, I’m not sure “opposed to the concept of laws” is really true for all but the most extreme examples of CG
There’s vast differences of scale, sure, but lawful - neutral - chaotic is about your relationship with laws as a concept that governs the actions of people for better or worse.
It seems like its more about wanting freedom than just hating laws themselves.
Nah, freedom and law aren’t inherently in opposition to each other.
Sure, some laws restrict your freedom to do certain things that lawmakers want to discourage for one reason or the other, but some other laws are there to PROTECT your freedom to do other things deemed desirable or value neutral.
Just like some laws existing to protect consumers from being exploited by corporations and others existing to protect corporations from the consumers they exploit doesn’t make “law” and “exploitation” synonyms or antonyms.
I agree that chaotic characters would be more inclined to break laws. But I suppose to circle back, I don’t see why that makes them any less Good.
Even your description of “law is an impediment to justice” sounds like a CG character would just do whatever they want without letting laws stop them, while NG might be more likely to consider whether or not to follow the law in any given circumstance and perhaps adjust their plan to be slightly more lawful, while CG might not respect the rule of law at all and just break into the prison and free the slaves or whatever.
Neutral Good (NG). Neutral Good creatures do the best they can, working within rules but not feeling bound by them. A kindly person who helps others according to their needs is probably Neutral Good.
Chaotic Good (CG). Chaotic Good creatures act as their conscience directs with little regard for what others expect. A rebel who waylays a cruel baron’s tax collectors and uses the stolen money to help the poor is probably Chaotic Good.
Side note: I agree that law and freedom aren’t necessarily in opposition as pure concepts. But part of my argument is that CG characters wouldn’t innately hate objectively good laws like “don’t keep slaves”. The laws they’d take issue with are ones that limit freedom, like “don’t steal”. Most probably wouldn’t be ideologues campaigning for the destruction of the government but they might just steal to fund their Good.
This only counts because they use their money to make their lives “lawful” through legislation and capture of the courts, minimizing their very real crimes against humanity.
Okay perhaps Buffett, Gates, and Cook haven’t gone as far as actual crimes against humanity but the rest have, and Buffett, Gates, and Cook are still unlawful but used their money to twist the laws in their favor.
By definition you can not get this rich without stealing the value of peoples labour - at scale.
Aka evil as shit.
In D&D lawful alignments apply more towards a doctrine the character follows, not necessarily the actual law.
You don’t understand Lawful Evil.
In the Nine Hells, bending and breaking rules to your whim is the norm. It’s whether you get caught, and piss off someone powerful, that matters.
breaking rules means they’re not lawful. that’s why demons are generaly described as chaotic
if you do something unlawful, it means you’re not lawful, it doesn’t matter if you’re caught or not
deleted by creator
I’d put Trump and Musk into ‘chaotic’
Definitely evil though.
No need to describe them in any way but just …
Evil
Bill does some genuinely good stuff. I’m sure he does some bad stuff too though.
there’s a book about that, “no such thing as a free gift: the gates foundation and the price of philanthropy”
It’s actually pretty interesting some of the effects his philanthropic efforts have had.
I think the bottom line is that billionaires shouldn’t exist, all said and done.
billionaires shouldn’t exist, all said and done.
Absolutely agreed.
Absolute greed.
Dude was actually best friends with Jeffery Epstein. Like he wanted to hang out with him casually in New York.
Now he’s got his he is. In the 80-00 he was as nasty a fucker as all the rest are now.
That doesn’t surprise me.
Why did you post a Bristol stool chart?
Is Trump a billionerr?
In real estate assets alone, thanks to his pops
