(Text below written by @treasure@feddit.org. Hope you don’t mind me yoinking it for here!)
The European Citizens’ Initiative ‘Stop Destroying Videogames’ is nearing its deadline on July 31st and is still missing quite a lot of signatures. To be precise, at the time of writing this post, only 560.000 of the required 1.000.000 signatures have been reached.
Another requirement has already been fulfilled: The minimum signature threshold has been reached in 10 countries, 7 were required.
If this is the first time of you hearing about this initiative, here’s a short TL;DR for you (more detailed information can be found here):
- Publishers that sell or license videogames should have to leave their videogames in a functional (playable) state.
- This means: Remote disabling of video games (such as live service titles) without providing means of keeping the game functional without the involvement of the publisher should be illegal.
- This does NOT mean that publishers should support their games forever, but rather that they provide tools (such as server binaries) to enable others to keep the game playable.
The initiative is slowly picking up speed again recently after its creator published a video explaining some of the background and why he doesn’t want to continue after the initiative is over. The video has been well-received by the community and some big influencers have reported on the topic.
If you are an EU citizen and have not signed yet, THIS IS THE TIME! The month until the deadline is met will pass quickly. Use two minutes of your time to influence something that may improve your life forever!
CLICK HERE TO SIGN. (or click here for a guide on how to sign in your language)
Also, if you are a UK citizen, you can sign a UK specific legal petition that also carries legal weight (forces parliament to investigate the issue). You can sign that here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702074/
It saddens me that my country (Italy) has such a low percentage of signatures. Most of us are either ignorant of anything happening outside of our borders, or straight up doomers who don’t believe anything can ever change for the better.
Big congrats to my fellow northern cousins. I was expecting Poland, who has a healthy videogame industry, to gather a good enough number of signatures, but 160% is wild! It’s refreshing seeing so many people joining the petition - It’s not even about videogames: this initiative will have huge repercussions on the lifespan of other, unrelated products and, in general terms, planned obsolescence.
I think it’s been very hard for us to spread awareness into countries where a majority don’t also speak English, as the organizer and much of the coverage is only in English.
If you know of any big Italian gaming YouTubers or streamers that might be receptive to helping or talking about the campaign, could you reach out to them about it with a comment?
Raiden and Midna at PLAYERINSIDE did it (again) this week and are going to do it again in their video today.
I bet that if they point out that we are losing to the French, we may achieve incredible results in record time.
Except in Pisa.
Unfortunately, that’s not my area of expertise. I don’t follow streamers or YouTubers (Italian or international), nor do I have a close enough relationship with any of them that I’d be able to talk to them and convince them to mention this petition to their fans.
The one and only time some friends and I attempted to interact with a few local content creators (to publicize our free fan games we poured hundreds of hours into and NEVER attempted to monetize in any way), we either got ignored, insulted, or received vague answers that went nowhere. It soured me towards Italian content creators and vowed to never interact with them again.
Sorry to hear that they were so nasty. :(
Where do you see signatures by country?
Here are the up-to-date numbers, the threshold percentages are now better than shown the image in the post but there’s still a long way to reach the total of 1 million
Signing it now just to spite piratesoftware.
I watched critical’s update on him and my fucking god is piratesoftware such an arrogant twat
I’ve been served PirateSoftware’s shorts long before all this controversy and it always bugged me how confidently wrong he was about systems and network things. He seems to be under the impression that he understands these things on an advanced level due to his experience as a checks notes QA tester for Blizzard, and a… indie software developer lol.
All this backlash against him is so vindicating.
ELI5 this controversy? I’m out of the loop.
There’s a group with a petition to “Stop Killing Games” which seeks to legally remedy the issue of game developers making games that are later turned off and left unplayable even in the case of them being single player.
Thor of PirateSoftware owns a development outfit that makes indie games and he also does a lot of streams. He’s against Stop Killing Games, but doesn’t seem to even understand it, and has publicly spoke out against it, going so far as to spread misinformation about it.
Have also been out of the loop too but went through the know your meme page.
Pirate Software made a video a year ago criticizing the initiative on a very surface level and has continued to do so in streams. Guy who created/sponsored/however-that-works the initiative posted a counter-argument video talking about what the initiative would actually do. Pirate Software did the ol’ Internet Doubledown and in general was kind of an ass and kind of revealed some ignorance. Cue Youtube Drama.
Fuck, I would sign but I’m a piece of shit American.
Helping spread the word is still an option, and would be greatly appreciated! :D
Fuck Thor.
I mean, big YouTubers like Charlie and others covering Thor’s bullshit is what drove this huge spike in signatures so maybe we should be thanking Thor lol
“Fuck you, Thor, but also thanks. But definitely fuck you, Thor.”
“And by thanks I actually means fuck you”
Nah, fuck Thor — he could have been the YouTuber pushing for coverage of Stop Killing Games, instead he decided to double down on his stupid bullshit.
Reminder — he was a Blizzard employee for 7 years. I think that, plus his ‘my shit doesn’t stink and if you think it does, you’re wrong and banned’ attitude should give you all you need to know.
Thor reminds me a lot of chatgpt. Subjects that I am not an expert in, he sounds intelligent and like he is providing good advice. The second he provides advice in an area where I am a subject matter expect, it makes me realize how full of shit he is.
Unless someone corrects me, I think his argument boils down to, “we shouldn’t allow the release of server binaries for online-enabled games because it’s too hard for the developers”.
Well, if that’s the case, then Thor, that’s a “you” (the company) problem. Not a “me” (the consumer) problem. And if you’re not going to release a server binary but we’re “buying” the game, purchasers have legitimate moral and legal grounds to demand that they be informed that they are buying a license, or renting, the game; they are not owning a functional copy of the game outright.
Addendum, for clarity:
My beef isn’t even with a games-as-a-service premise at all. It’s the corporatist trend in arguing that single-player experiences need perpetual online connectivity, or that releasing self-hosted PvP server functionality is prima fascia “unrealistic in every scenario”.
Some games, like WoW, no way. I understand the depth of the server stack for MMOs. Other games that are PvP-competitive could easily be self-hosted.
The irony is that these companies could still make a boatload of money off of these old competitive online games with more maps and skins, even though they’ve deprecated their own server stack and cloud-back-end. Essentially, they’d pass the burden of hosting to the players, but still sell content sporadically.
“Stop Killing Games” needs more refined language about what it’s asking for, no doubt. There are many scenarios where blanket statements about demanding source code are just not feasible.
I’m turning 42 this summer. I’ve been a software developer for 15 years now. I’d like to even say that a few of those years I even came across like I knew what I was talking about. But this basic issue is not about software development. This is about consumer advocacy, and it was a huge turn off to watch him perform the mental gymnastics on
why people should be screwed overwhy false/deceptive advertising by the industry is acceptable.Its not allowing the release, its requiring it.
Good.
Require it; if I buy something I require every feature of my own product, if I purchased it.
Too hard? Fine.
Then the law should require the fact that you the seller must say I’m renting a game or product, or purchased a limited license. They can’t say I “bought it and own it” if they can prevent me from using it however I want whenever they want. Force them to be explicitly clear about what I’m getting for my money.
purchasers have legitimate moral and legal grounds to demand that they be informed that they are buying a license, or renting, the game; they are not owning a functional copy of the game outright.
I’m pretty sure that’s already the case, if you read the ToS of most games.
Not that it makes this any better.
The typeface must be 16pt, bold, and the copy itself should be on the front page and be required on the cover description(s).
My beef isn’t even with a games-as-a-service premise at all. It’s the corporatist trend in arguing that single-player experiences need perpetual online connectivity, or that releasing self-hosted PvP server functionality is prima fascia “unrealistic in every scenario”. Some games, like WoW, no way. I get the depth of the server stack for MMOs. Other games that are PvP-competitive could easily be self-hosted. These companies could still make money off of these old competitive online games, even though they’ve deprecated their own server stack.
“Stop Killing Games” needs more refined language about what it’s asking for, no doubt. There are many scenarios where blanket statements about demanding source code are just not feasible.
However, let’s not pretend that the industry is not pushing enshittification tactics used by almost every business that’s publicly traded. That’s the spirit in which this movement is fighting against.
Wow, so that won’t do anything.
It does infinitely more than sitting around being a doomer.
What’s a doomer?
Someone believes a cause is doomed from the start, so doesn’t even try.
Because gaming companies are all greedy fucks. They aren’t going to give a fuck about people’s signatures lmao. You have to not buy the game in the millions. Not sign a website, and still buy the games anyways
This is not a change.org petition. This is a European initiative. Meaning if this gets the necessary number of signatures this could get brought forth to the European Parliament, where laws on the subject can get negotiated over.
Oh come on you can’t actually be that dense. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but there are these things called laws and companies have to follow them.
You speak on matters which you do not understand
Ah, like PirateSoftware! :D
I do find it kind of funny that uh, seemingly this is the situation:
If gamers want to actually, truly, literally RISE UP… and do something useful and good, for once…
They will have to defeat Thor, in online combat.
(The PirateSoftware guy goes by Thor, not sure if thats his real name, a nickname, who knows)
There’s a dumb as shit Marvel knock off fanfic plot line in here somewhere.
eu citizens initiatives are official tools of the public to help draft new laws.
This isn’t a petition like change.org. It’s to get this brought in front of politicians that HAVE to make a ruling based on it.
Its not a meaningless web petition.
It’s a formal, direct democracy style legal process in the EU, to get the relevant legal authorities to review and revise the laws that currently allow gaming companies to be greedy fucks.
A similar concept exists in many US states amd cities:
If enough signatures can be gathered in a defined amount of time, then the proposed legal concept that has been directly endorsed by enough citizens then is automatically either pushed to the legislators and courts to review, or to be included for broader democratic voting up or down on by the next local election.
…
You apparently have no idea that initiatives and petitons can be more than just a legally non binding, essentially useless virtue signals on some random website.
In many, many parts of the world, something like an initiative serves as a way for the citizens of an area to bypass their own representatives and force them to directly engage with an issue.
If this initiative crosses the threshold, it stands s good chance at reforming the laws around games as a consumer product, from a consumer rights point of view.
Governments do actually have the ability to restrain and modify the actions and practices of corporations, by altering the laws that define what they are and are not allowed to do.
Further, because the EU has so many people, is such a large market for games… there is a good chance that if the EU reforms what game companies are allowed to do within the EU… well, developing an entirely different game for the EU and the US, totally different in the underlying internal design, more than just translstion/localization… from a business POV, it may end up making more financial sense to not essentially develop two games at once, and instead just develop a single, global game, that is compliant with with EU laws.
Go look into how digital privacy laws being different between the EU and US and other parts of the world are currently, right now, forcing many US based tech firms to alter their practices within the EU, and sometimes even in the US and elsewhere, due to the propagation effect of a huge market altering its laws.
…
Another example of something like this is firearms in the US: California, and now several other US states, have passed laws stating that for certain kinds of guns, a magazine can hold no more than 10 rounds.
Prior to this, when such laws did not exist… not many firearm companies made and sold guns with only 10 round mags. Now, many of them actually do.
This has also occured at a Federal level with barrel length restrictions: Basically, you cannot sell a civillian a short barelled rifle, something that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length, or a total butt stock to tip of barrel length less than 26 inchds.
Before those laws were passed… you could buy those, companies could sell those.
But because a compact, higher powered rifle is the easiest thing to use in a confined space, for something like a school shooting… well, now all the guns have to be at least a bit bigger, so that they’re more difficult to use in a ‘moving from room to hallway to room’ kind of scenario.
…
Laws passed by governments can alter industry practices, thats the entire concept of regulation.
Laws and legal review processes can be formally initiated within a government by formal, legal, citizens initiatives, that’s the entire point of them.
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Oh. No I’m a millennial
Someone born within the years 1992-1995. You can spot 'em easy.
I feel attacked, I’m doing my best 😭
It is better to try and fail than to not try at all.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
- Samuel Beckett
you do realize this isnt some dumb online petition but rather a official citizens initiative to create new laws, right?
actually you clearly dont realize that.
Very insightful. Thank you for your wisdom.
You are welcome good sir 😊
Go back to reddit
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looks like GamersNexus is covering it on their consumer advocacy channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9ahH6HrtTc&pp=0gcJCc4JAYcqIYzv
Yes! They’ll also be plugging it on their main channel soon.
I’m an EU citizen living in the UK, but only signed the UK one because I’m not putting my passport ID into petitions O.o
Just to clarify, this isn’t a normal toothless petition, this is an official EU mechanism that allows citizens to bring problems to the attention of the European Commission, and force them to pass judgement on it legally. You can read more about it here.
It’s good to be skeptical of anything asking for that personal info, but I’d suggest researching into it to confirm that it is indeed legit.
Thank you for signing the UK one :)
Everyone was calling it “stop killing games” instead of “stop destroying games” and I literally thought it was a petition to stop games with murder and violence lol never even got farther than seeing the title.
Definitely a good idea to switch over to stop destroying games if that wasn’t the official title already…
By that logic I might assume your new title for the movement is to stop any games with destruction! Make only wholesome games!
Edit: Also “destroying” a game is very subjective. Your suggestion is definitely a downgrade.
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I’m not going to read something if the title doesn’t interest me. It’s also a great example of write headlines that are accurate and informative.
I would love to know where the people who downvoted you are getting the time and energy to read every single article they see a headline for.
And every book they don’t like the title/cover for
Ya me too.
But everybody loves mass murder.
Drama drives these things. I totally understand Ross not wanting to engage in it 10 months ago but look at what it can do.
Yeah. It has rapidly turned an initiative that was already unnecessarily combative toward devs (fuck the publishers though) and associated it with harassment and review bombing games that are actually Doing It Right just because they worked with the wrong third party studio. Not to mention all the “Well, we don’t agree with everything asmongold says, but let’s call a truce so long as he is gonna let us play our video games”
And… honestly? I have disliked thor since LONG before all y’all realized he isn’t the world’s best WoW player or he has an opinion you don’t like because he was considering things from the perspective of the people who would be doing the work to enact these “simple requirements”.
But it feels REAL fucking everyday normal to watch people immediately go from “the harassment campaign that led to the death of Mikayla Raines was horrible” to “Let’s fucking ruin Pirate Software’s life and attack him and everything he has ever associated with because we are morally righteous”
Let’s be real here; arrogant twats don’t off themselves. Too much ego.
I initially read this as a petition to stop games that have killing in them facepalm
Still better reading comprehension than PirateSoftware.
Absolute legend.
Well, that pirate guy didn’t do anything. (Unless he actually caused this, then… messy causality…)
He actively misrepresented the campaign and spread misinformation about its goals. I don’t know if he genuinely didn’t understand or if he was too embarrassed to admit to a mistake but he did a lot of damage to the momentum and perception of the whole thing.
It sucks these big creators only now pick up the mantle but it’s better than nothing. There’s still some time left.
I don’t know if he genuinely didn’t understand or if he was too embarrassed to admit to a mistake
Worse, he actively lied. In his edited video about the petition he actively misrepresents the initiative, then goes on to edit out the the part of Ross’ video that would have contradicted his misrepresentation.
This is not an innocent or negligent mistake on Thor’s part, it’s an active attempt at burial.
Even worse, he is a narcissistic lying piece of shit with high ego. He would never admit a slight mistake, and thinks of himself as all-knowing. Think ChatGPT - confidently lying all the time, but always doubling down.
He’s like if ChatGPT hallucinations were kept in for the express purpose of profit.
I haven’t really been following it or him (I don’t really even know much, other than the gist of not wanting games to disappear when devs decide it’s too expensive to keep the servers). What did he do? Because normally he gives pretty good takes.
He wildly misunderstood/misrepresented the initiative two videos in a row (and continues to ten months later), and he continually discredits the entire initiative because of contrived edge cases.
I think this paragraph from this twitter reply really sums it up:
My dislike of the initiative stems entirely from the wording to keep all games in a “Functional Playable State” after sunsetting which is not possible for all games and could limit what kinds of games people make in the future.
The idea that creativity would be hampered because games would have to remain playable when the company shuts down servers one day is ridiculous. Can you imagine if we talked like this about anything else? “We can’t force every phone to use the same USB-C charging port because it would be too technically infeasible to do so and hamper creativity.” “We can’t outlaw CFCs because they’re useful chemicals and it would be technically infeasible for some products to be made without chlorofluorocarbons (the things that fucked up the ozone layer).” “My dislike of the initiative stems entirely from the wording to ‘make cars limit their emissions’ which is not possible for all cars and could limit what kinds of cars companies make in the future.” Ridiculous.
It’s absurd that I’m not exaggerating when I say his opposition to Stop Killing Games entirely boils down to “I think companies should be allowed to take games away because it would be really hard for them to leave some games playable when they’re done supporting them 🥺”
I used to passively like Thor, but when I watched those two videos he made last year about SKG I lost all of my respect for him.
This also has big implications for consumer rights and society as a whole in other areas of digital technology and right to repair, it is a foot in the door to start actually holding manufacturers responsible for the full lifecycle of their products (digital and real) that requires them to actually relinquish their control when their product reaches end-of-commercial-life, instead of turning everything into digital garbage out of what basically amounts to apathy and compulsive rights hoarding.
I’m an American citizen living in the Netherlands; I have a renewed 5-year residency permit. Am I allowed to sign? I’m guessing no, but maybe there’s an allowance for EU residents, not just citizens?
Pretty sure it’s just EU citizens. If you can’t vote in elections there, you probably can’t sign this.
The Dutch allow me to vote for the Water Management Board of my town. Other than that, no, I can’t vote in the other elections. 😢
Let’s keep going https://eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#/screen/home
