Space and time are the same thing. Spacetime. Time travel would necessarily also by teleportation if you are traveling instantaneously through spacetime. Unless of course your travel is continuous like it is currently for all of us, just sped up, slowed down or reversed.
Also there is no objective point of reference for location in the universe, only relative points of reference. In other words, you are always some distance in some direction from some thing. But you never have objective stable coordinates relative to the universe itself. There is no “center” or other fixed point of the universe. So the earth is moving, yes, but only relative to other independent celestial bodies. And those bodies are moving, too, relative to other bodies. Their movement is always relative to a non-absolute frame of reference. No movement is objective to the universe, it’s all relative.
So it would be illogical to expect the earth to have moved X miles away in Y direction if you teleported one second into the past/future because that would presuppose that your location was objective and absolute in the universe at the point of time traveling and the earth moved relative to your absolute location. It would break known physics if that were the case, as much as time travel itself would.
🤔
If only there was some kind of theory that could explain relativity.
Especially in large celestial objects.
Being sci-fi it can be explained with Q u a n t u m E n t a n g l e m e n t
That’s why I always liked approaches that use a physical machine that has to stay in one place for an extended period of time. Quantum Break’s hard sci-fi approach to this was fascinating and kept making me reconsider how the time loop worked. Highly recommended for time loop nerds like me.
I’m convinced that if there’s a way to build a time machine, it’ll probably work like Primer.
You’re obviously the main character in this simulation so it’s much more likely that all other coordinates are derived from your position in the simulation engine.
Also plot armor should take care of any disasters along the way. No worries. Just press the button and let’s go!
Yep, and not to mention the position of our solar system in the Milky Way or our galaxy in the local cluster. In fact, without a specific reference frame you would have to make corrections very rapidly for even a tiny jump in time.
There was a not very good TV show Seven Days that used this well. They had a time machine that could go back in time seven days. The pilot had to fly the machine chasing the earth as he traveled back in time.
He would usually end up crashing it somewhere and have to find a phone to call for pickup.
Yep, and he had to also solve the problem of the week given everything they could figure out in the 7 days following it happening. A cool set of limitations for the writers, the execution was a little sloppy, but overall a cool idea.
Depends on how time travel works. I mean, within the next 24 hours I plan to travel to tomorrow. I’m not going to be taking any of that into account.
You just need to maintain a relationship between Time And Relative Dimension In Space. 🟦
– Time And Relative Dimension In Space
or TARDIS for short?
Forget the orbit… remember the song…
https://genius.com/Monty-python-the-galaxy-song-lyrics
“Just remember that you’re standing on a planet that’s evolving
And revolving
at 900 miles an hour.
It’s orbiting at 19 miles a second,
so it’s reckoned,
The sun that is the source of all our power.
Now the sun, and you and me,
and all the stars that we can see,
Are moving at a million miles a day,
In the outer spiral arm,
at 40,000 miles an hour,
Of a galaxy we call the Milky Way.”I get that people just refer to them as time machines, but they’re actually space-time vehicles.
Before your first journey, you calibrate it to a reference point (mine already had Earth mapped out, with a gravity well depth monitor as a fail-safe) so that you lock your target coordinates in space and time.
But no, it’s not teleportation. You’re still just travelling to your destination, you just get there as quick as you want and without the need to be disintegrated.
In a different position relative to what?
What point in space is the reference, where other things are placed relative to?
Any point you want, but likely the great attractor.
Well, it depends. I mean the original story “The Time machine” I think very deliberately had a machine that was on the ground. I guess if you’re “travelling” through time then you could follow your local location in the same way you do when it is moving forward at the normal rate.
The argument is more true for time machines that instantly move through time, like back to the future. Since yes it would need some way to account for planetary movement.
What if it works by reversing/fastforwarding time outside while preserving things within the time machine? Then as long as the time machine is grounded to the earth it would move with it
So, Primer, then? Where you can’t return to a point in time before the time machine was constructed?
What sort of universal reference frame do you seem to be assuming? All location is relative to other things, and keeping your location relative to, say, the Earth would be a lot more convenient that making it relative to some arbitrary star or something.
But if you’re in a moving car and “pop” back a few seconds while the car doesn’t you won’t be in the car anymore. If it worked more like rewinding a video you wouldn’t need to do much, but I’m assuming OP means literally going “poof” and now you’re back in time. If that’s the case, you would still need to know how Earth is moving through spacetime. If you don’t know your relativistic relationship to the Earth and every other object in the universe then how would you know where you are or your own relativity compared to the Earth?
Exactly, and due to earth’s rotation you don’t even need the car.
Their point is that (as per relatively), all movement is relative to something. So if the earth moved away then you must be measuring in relation to some other reference point. There is no absolute positioning system. So when you say the earth is moving, what is it moving in relation to? And why did you pick that reference point instead of having a time machine that uses earth itself as a reference point?
But that’s the thing though. How can you determine the Earth as a reference point without knowing how it relates to other objects in space? “Here” is as useful a coordinated system as a fake absolute positioning system. “Here” is just your relation to other objects. If you don’t know what your relation to those objects is you can’t determine where “here” is, or the Earth for that matter. Whether it’s the machine or the person operating it, something or someone has to calculate where the Earth is in order to use it as a reference point.
If you are driving away from your friend at 20 mph, from your perspective they are moving away from you at 20 mph while you are the one that’s stationary. The only thing determining your location, or reference point, is your relation to each other.
You’re still thinking in a context where the earth is travelling around the sun, etc etc.
If you assume the Earth as the reference point, then that is fixed, absolutely frozen, doesn’t move at all. That’s point zero.
You cannot calculate where the earth is. What you do is calculate where everything else, the universe itself and even other dimensions, are with regards to your fixed point.
This can feel counterintuitive, but here’s a random visualization: https://youtube.com/shorts/UZyuZVvCE78
Note that, in that video, only the perspective has changed. The solar system is moving as usual.
But that’s the point that I’m trying to make. It’s probably my fault as I’m not very good at explaining things like this, and I’m not disagreeing with at all. I’m just saying that there is no way to have a machine or method of travel with a fixed point without knowing its relation to other objects. Just like you can’t know the trajectory of the Earth through space without knowing its relation to other objects. What I’m saying is that regardless of your “fixed point” you will have to do the same math, just in a different order depending on your point of reference. We are dealing with relatively here so the only variable that changes is your point of reference while the math stays the same.
This is also demonstrated well in the show Travelers with T.E.L.L.
Basically, a quantum AI from the future uses historical records to determine the time, elevation, latitude and longitude to send people back. Obviously the Earth itself is the reference point being used.
It was a seriously underrated show.
That video is super, super wrong, and nowhere even close to “just a different perspective”. To demonstrate, Mercury and Venus should periodically come between the Sun and Earth, but that’ll never happen in that model.
Op thinks the universe is built with some inherently absolute positioning method. Thanks for writing this
Use the time and space machine on a ruler and send it back in time a pico second, then a millisecond, then a thousand, then a second, then a minute. You just have to calibrate with measurements first.
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I’m using the microwave background as a reference
The microwave background is like a rainbow. When you move, it appears to move. You’re always at the “center” of it.
You can measure the Doppler shift relative to the cosmic microwave background though
I tried, but then it started blinking.
Lol, that’s omnipresent
Tell me you didn’t pay attention in Spatial Distortion as Applied to Time Dilation class without telling me you didn’t pay attention in Spatial Distortion as Applied to Time Dilation class.
That’s why they used Delorean.
No, he used a Delorean because of the style, and something about the stainless steel construction that we’ll never know the rest of. :P
Just want to leave it here
I…I need the template for that meme :o
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For science?
