I recently learned that voting on lemmy is not anonymous. Anyone can get information about who has upvoted and downvoted a post or comment.
In combination with your IP, this is a massive privacy (maybe even physical security) risk. Also, people can target you for your votes.
Sadly, this is something where I would prefer Reddit over Lemmy. Big tech scrapes data from both places anyways, at least Reddit is safe.
Cool stuff right? Everyone can spy on you, and you can keep them guessing by behaving incongruent. Lots of fun!
Lol
🥸
An entire thread of people missing the point 🙄
I have to assume it was the same case on Reddit, except it was only info available privately, to whomever. Now, every psychopath and their mother can find people who disagree quietly and hunt them down!
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Anyone can get information about who has upvoted and downvoted a post or comment.
In combination with your IP, this is a massive privacy (maybe even physical security) risk.
Why?
If I know the things you post/vote about and I know your general location (from IP), I can use that along with other metrics from other usage of your IP (on other websites) to get a fairly accurate location and profile of who you are. One slip up in a comment or a post and I can probably know your name and address.
This is assuming someone is specifically targeting you. But as tech advances, it might already be possible for the average person to do this on a large number of people. Big tech does it already.
If I know the things you post/vote
Post or vote? As you appear to be specifically butthurt about people being able to see how you vote? Or perhaps you would like your posts to be anonymous as well?
I know your general location (from IP)
You don’t.
other usage of your IP (on other websites)
You don’t.
fairly accurate location and profile of who you are
You don’t.
One slip up in a comment or a post and I can probably know your name and address.
Yeah, if I put in my name and address when commenting 🙄
Admins can have IPs. What do you mean “you don’t”?
Every IP has a geolocation.
Yeah, if I put in my name and address when commenting
You underestimate how much information we leak through just using the Internet.
Admins can have IPs. What do you mean “you don’t”?
Precisely what I said. You don’t. Admins of your instance can - you know, like Reddit admins.
You underestimate how much information we leak through just using the Internet.
Yes, downvoting is definitely “information leaking”.
Look, you don’t like that anyone could see how you voted, I get it. That’s your view and it is fine. But stop making it a privacy issue as it isn’t one.
Fuck, I’ve been on the internet from the mid 90’s - with very few handles…
I knew from the beginning that you should always expect the worst.
Never gave my name or info unless absolutely necessary.
Even avoided smarthphones until last year, from then it was simply forced upon me since there was no other option for many services.meh, my cell phone number and name is even on the internet - the joy of being a site manager
whats the problem with it . you did not liked it you downvoted . its not like they can ban your account
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Why is public voting a massive privacy and physical threat but public posting and commenting is not?
dude is just bent out of shape because they got called out for disagreeing Russia should go home and leave Ukraine alone.
I mean it is kind of a dick move to spy on downvotes and then demand that someone respond to you. The dude is wrong as hell, but I do agree with the overall principle that not every vote needs to be subject to someone getting interrogated as to why they voted that way.
Their shock at finding out that it works that way is, of course, why the currently Lemmy UI is badly designed because it creates the illusion for people that their votes are private. They definitely should not do that.
I read the thread and it was definitely worth calling him out this time.
It’s not something I usually do, but I’m tired of not calling out people on shitty opinions in regards to fascism. especially when it comes to a simple perspective of “this bad thing is bad”.
it’s like someone downvoting because a comment said “fuck cancer”. like…why? my mind can’t even fathom why anyone would dislike that kind of message unless they themselves are cancer or advocate for the advancement of cancer.
typically I don’t give a shit about downvotes, but it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah, I get it. You’re not wrong.
People are free to their opinions. Not everyone will fit into your concept of ethics. If you are calling out someone for their non-conventional opinion, you are against free speech.
Free speech just means the government isn’t allowed to punish you for only saying things (and even that had a whole constellation of big fuckin asterisks on it). Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences.
I feel like you misunderstand what free speech is.
Calling someone out for any opinion is part of free speech.
Makes sense
To elaborate, the ability to call someone out is literally “free speech”. The backlash you may get for said call out, in speech form, is also part of free speech.
If the government locks you up for what you said, that is not free speech.
If you are calling out someone for their non-conventional opinion, you are against free speech.
Nope, that’s not what that means. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences of your speech and it doesn’t mean guaranteed anonymous speech. And as far as the constitution is concerned, the right to freedom of speech only means the government can’t stop you from expressing your opinion.
So you have the right to say what you want without government interference, but other people can tell you that what you said is shitty, your employer can fire you because you opinion isn’t consistent with their values, the forum/venue where you expressed your opinion can ban you, etc.
Exactly my point. It is a form of witch-hunt. People are too focused on my views on the Russia-Ukraine than the actual topic.
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I am not bent out of shape. I said what I said and I stand by it. I am surprised about the public nature of my votes.
Who’s ‘bent out of shape’?
Having to vent his little frustration from NATO fascists losing the war in a totally unrelated discussion about up/downvotes.
Go cry somewhere else.
Or better go volkssturm and go to the Ostfront like your example from the 1940.
You will be dealth with appropriately there.One comment and five rubles in your pocket, well done Yuri.
Another original banger from the nazi.
Yawn.
Go volunteer then to the Ostfront like your WW2 heroes so can you get what you deserve and I don’t have to read your boring drivel.
I’ll piss on your grave laterThat’s rich coming from an actual Putin nazi, Bumhole.
keep em coming dummy
You’re not accurately representing what they said.
this could easily be solved.
Russia go home. Leave Ukraine.…is on par with telling people to “get a higher-paying job” to fix their finances or “just get friends” to solve loneliness. I don’t downvote a comment like this because it wouldn’t solve the issue, but because the proposed “solution” is completely out of touch with reality.
Good rule of thumb for online discussion: if someone offers a simple solution to a complex problem, they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.
No, it’s on par with telling someone “Well, you shouldn’t keep driving drunk then” or “You should 100% stop contacting her and move on if she keeps instantly blocking you on every new platform you try on.” Certain actions really are under voluntary control. We’re not telling Russia they really need to shape up that GDP if they want the world to take them seriously. We’re asking them to stop deciding to kill innocent people. Seems legit. The obstacle is that they really want to, and they’re reluctant to stop.
(The analogy is flawed because there’s no real equivalency between driving drunk and maybe rolling the dice on killing one family, and yourself, versus doing it to members of a million families. But the simplicity of the solution is the same.)
There’s no real cost to stopping drunk driving. Putin, on the other hand, has gone all in on the war in Ukraine. “Just pull your troops from Ukraine” is about as realistic as “just shoot yourself,” because from his perspective, the outcome is basically the same in both scenarios.
Sure, it would be nice if Russia simply left Ukraine, but put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in. It’s an incredibly naive thing to say, and it ignores the reality and complexity of the situation entirely. It’s a thought-terminating cliché - a feel-good slogan people toss around to avoid critical thinking, while fishing for upvotes from like-minded people.
Sure, it would be nice if Russia simply left Ukraine, but put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in. It’s an incredibly naive thing to say
This is exactly the kind of logic someone would use to justify either of the examples I brought up. Exactly.
The fact that he really doesn’t want to stop killing innocent people, and so he would have to pay the “cost” of doing something he doesn’t want to do, isn’t a justification. I would actually really like for him to be arrested on that ICC warrant and try to explain this exactly logic at the Hague. I think it would be great. I would support him using that defense, I think it would be wonderful to see. People could decide whether to accept the logic, and then whether to hang him or not depending on whether they bought into it as a good reason for continuing to kill innocent people on an industrial scale.
Explanation is not excuse. This has absolutely nothing to do with justifying anything they’ve done.
So what they’ve done in Ukraine is completely unjustified? In your opinion?
Ok I have ro ask, have you studied philosophy or language? Your comments are so well formed with proper terminology.
This is just bait lol
Get a room you two
Thank you!
No, I haven’t - I’m a plumber by training. I credit my autism for my precision of speech, and as for my philosophy and the vocabulary around it, I’d say that’s simply the result of a few decades of debating these topics online, combined with thousands of hours of podcasts and YouTube videos covering these topics.
It’s rare that I say anything completely original. If something I say comes across as well-crafted, it’s probably because I’ve said the exact same thing a dozen times before.
Autism is a superpower if used correctly.
You are my second favourite plumber, after Mario.
Wow, I’m dumbfounded by this logic.
Let’s say you and I live next door to each other. One day, my family and I break into your house and move in. You tell us to leave, but we punch you in the face. You try fighting back, but we don’t leave, and days and weeks go by. I’ve moved some of my furniture into your house. How would you feel if people started saying that the problem is now too complex. I’ve obviously invested too much in living in your house for me to just pack up and go home. The solution is going to have to be more nuanced than that.
This seems to be the logic you’re defending.
Nothing I’ve said is in any way defending the invasion.
It’s the logic of what I replied to that doesn’t make sense to me.
There’s no real cost to stopping drunk driving.
There isn’t one for Russia to go home neither.
put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution
You are taking a fucking piss.
put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in.
That’s literally no one’s problem but Putin’s. He has committed crimes. He should accept the personal reprecussions. You’re basically making the “affluenza” argument for someone who has been committing war crimes and murdering civilians because they dared to want to have a representative government.
I’m not defending Putin’s actions - I’m assessing the realistic options given the current situation. There’s a difference between what should happen in a moral sense and what is actually likely to happen in the real world.
Saying “he should accept the consequences” is easy - but how exactly do you propose making that happen? Wishing for an outcome is not the same as having a way to it. If you think there’s a viable way to get Putin to take personal responsibility or withdraw and survive it personally, I’m genuinely interested in hearing what you think that looks like in practice.
I mean…I am “they”.
honestly I’m at a loss of even how to respond to your critique. you’re comparing first world problems and the primary request of the Ukrainian government like it’s apples to apples.
I think if either of us is underestimating the complexity of the situation, it’s you.
many of the problems that are plaguing Ukraine right now is Russia. many of the problems plaguing Russia right now is their illegal occupation of Ukraine. the simplest solution right now is for Russia to leave Ukraine. after that, discussions of reciprocity can be held. I use that term loosely here though because Russia is clearly the one at fault and Ukraine has been acting in self-defense, as such Ukraine shouldn’t be required to repay anything to Russia.
also, if you’re coming to Lemmy to have a deep political discussion on the finer points of political discourse (especially on the topic of Russia), you might not be that intelligent. maybe read a book on the subject and find a discussion group at a local library if you want to engage with an intellectual.
remember, these are comments not thesis statements.
Ok at the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?
Mind you, I still think Russia did the wrong thing but there is nuance.
There is no nuance. Russia amassed an invasion force at the Ukrainian border for a week before entering their sovereign territory.
Russia postured at the border and had been threatening to advance for months before that even.
Russia was supporting Russian separatists and funding domestic terrorists within Ukraine before the invasion.
the only reason why this happened is because the Ukrainian public rebelled against the Russian fed corruption and held an actual legitimate election and removed the installed puppets.
if there is any nuance here, it’s in the multiple ways that Russia had attempted to circumvent the will of the Ukrainian people.
why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?
To take it over. You know, like they have done with number of countries number of times before?
That’s the US shithole dummy
ah yes all those times that countries have invaded other countries for good reasons
“You might not be that intelligent” isn’t the counter argument you might think it is.
You misrepresented what OP said. Plain and simple. That’s what I’m calling you out on.
Thank you for saying it. I thought I was going mad.
if someone offers a simple solution to a complex problem, they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.
New quote added to my journal
Both of them are but when a person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public. Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Also, votes have a massive amount as compared to comments. An average user might comment on 1 post for every 50 they vote on (a number I pulled out of my ass)
person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public.
Yes.
Voting is meant to be anonymous
No.
On most social media the voting is public, see Facebook/Twitter likes. Hell back in the days of forums you could usually see the list of users that liked a given thread in most of the forum software I ever used. Reddit was the anomaly really
I think piefed has a feature where your votes never leave your instance, so are not exposed in this way (but obviously only appear on your home instance too)
Agree that it should be clearer to people coming from Reddit that that’s how it works though.
The thing is they make it extremely clear that votes are public by letting you see who voted right next to the button.
Lemmy hides this feature and most users don’t know about it.
Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Says who? Voting/likes are public on a lot of social media sites, as long as the content itself is public. The only mainstream ones I can think of where it’s not are YouTube and reddit.
The thing is they make it extremely clear that votes are public by letting you see who voted right next to the button.
Lemmy hides this feature and most users don’t know about it.
Yeah, I agree that this isn’t ideal.
I feel hat posts/comments are much more of a privacy exposure than any vote.
If the OP wants private voting vs their post/comments then two account would be the solution to that - this is how it is done in the backend on piefedAlso if only voting is so bad, just don’t vote. Those votes are not used for anything but ranking in lists for others, you’ll not see any difference for yourself if you stop voting.
It is a social forum. Voting and commenting is the core part of the experience.
Yes. So does seeing how you are voting and commenting.
I don’t understand
So you still don’t understand that publicly accessible votes come from publicly viewable actions of users and can be tracked back to them???
Both of them are but when a person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public. Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Also, votes have a massive amount as compared to comments. An average user might comment on 1 post for every 50 they vote on (a number I pulled out of my ass)
Voting is meant to be anonymous
You THINK it should be anonymous. I disagree so did Lemmy creators.
The Lemmy creators thought votes should be private, and didn’t respond meaningfully to people who tried to tell them that Lemmy votes are not private.
If they’re currently retconning it as “Lemmy votes are not private and never were,” then that’s a step in the right direction I guess, but the fatal flaw was ever following the Reddit model where votes are “supposed” to be private for real. Because as you note it is impossible to do in an ActivityPub system. A lot of people when this was first being discussed, pre-lemvotes, were objecting strongly to the idea of making votes public, because they liked pretending they were private and just not paying any attention to the fact that they weren’t. I think mbin still refuses to display downvotes for this (stupid) reason.
(Actually, Piefed did what I thought was a brilliant solution, creating new actors to send out votes with that were different from the comment actors, so that individual users could vote from Piefed and admins could check into it but the votes would not be trivial to associate with the users. IDK why they abandoned it but it seemed like a pretty clever way.)
I thought they consulted it with the users, and they decided that they should stay pseduo-private.
I’d dare say lemmy creators wouldn’t mind private votes, they chose not to display voting counts to normal users after all, but that’s not how the ActivityPub protocol is built and honestly can’t be built if you want federated votes.
Voting is only seldom private IRL, only in very specific situations like in very important national elections.
When you vote for what to get for lunch together or for who will be the head of your local football club or who will be the speaker in your school, most of them are public, similarly to Lemmy votes.
If you’re a lurker who votes, voting would be your only exposure.
If you are a lurker that votes then I very little that some random could tie back to your home address or even IP
Would be my question as well. It seems quite obvious that if you participate in publicly viewable discussion, that the stuff you do is publicly viewable.
If you don’t want it associated to your physical person, use a VPN and unidentifiable account name.
(And the statement “at least reddit is safe” seems absolutely ridiculous to me.)
Reddit is safer than Lemmy. There cannot be witchhunts on lurkers. IP info is not accessible to anyone but the company.
Your IP isn’t accessible to anyone but your instance admin, that doesn’t federate.
As long as we’re talking about privacy issues on Lemmy, I’m pretty sure that isn’t true. I strongly suspect that it would be possible to set up a tool that would post image links, or even just track the accesses for your own avatar, in a way where you could statistically be pretty confident of associating IP addresses with usernames after participating in Lemmy for a while (correlating people accessing your avatar image with replying to particular people’s comments and then them replying to those comments, sending DMs to particular people from a not-very-much used account, something like that.)
I think modern versions of Lemmy can proxy images to reduce this, but it’s hard enough to do robustly that I would bet that there is some kind of way the information leaks out. It’s really hard to prevent this kind of thing even if you’re trying hard to make it difficult and the Lemmy devs don’t seem to be trying all that hard.
I don’t even think image proxying is on by default in Lemmy, although I just checked and this Piefed instance is doing it.
Is this a joke? Are you here as some pro reddit propaganda machine?
How is Reddit less secure than Lemmy?
reddit safer than lemmy lol
How is Reddit less secure than Lemmy?
you can be sure that reddit tracks you; often you cant even open it when using a vpn. they have an approximate location from your ip, possible movement data when their client is on your phone, and then they enrich their data with external datasets. those are then sold. reddit is a bit more private than facebook, but not as much as you believe. all those sources combined mean they pretty much know who you are.
I agree that they track and are shit at privacy. I specifically find it safer because only the company can track me and not the users.
This is a decent point. Ignore the inane downvotes you’re getting for simply expressing your opinion in a polite and good-faith manner.
you know that data is being sold to hundreds of third parties, right? I`m pretty sure that more people get access to that data than there are lemmy users. but you do you, mate
If someone starts to harrass you due to your voting habits (which I’ve never heard of happening) you can just block them and move on with your life. The difference between someone saying mean things to you and someone writing them is that you can just stop reading.
Blocking is a bandaid to the problem.
If a person climbs onto a stage to make a statement, and instead of getting on stage to make a counterpoint someone just shouts “booo” from the audience, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to demand that person to show their face. There’s a certain level of cowardice in simply downvoting without explaining why you disagree. There’s no option to post anonymously here, so it’s not obvious to me that voting should be anonymous either. If people upvote or downvote, they should be willing to stand behind that - and if someone asks for an explanation, you have three choices: ignore them, block them, or explain. I guess there’s also the option to simply not vote at all.
If it were up to me, I’d hide vote counts from users entirely. It’s not all bad, but I’d argue the net effect is negative. Visible votes encourages toxic behavior. When someone makes a controversial claim, you can first downvote them, then dunk on them in a reply - and now they’re being downvoted into oblivion while you get applause for your smug comment. It feels like you’ve won the debate when in reality, nobody’s mind changed. Heavily downvoted comments also prime readers to dislike them before they even read them, instead of approaching with a neutral mindset and then forming their own opinion - or reading further to see other perspectives. As it stands, the system mostly trains people to recognize what’s popular on a platform so they can self-censor to avoid downvotes, and feel validated for shouting down people who voice unpopular opinions.
So, if someone asks me to explain why I downvoted something, I might explain or I might not - but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable thing to ask. On the other hand, if someone makes it their personal mission to follow me around and harass me because I downvoted their comment, I think it’s unreasonable to demand the system be changed just so I don’t have to deal with it. There’s already a solution for that: blocking them.
There’s a certain level of cowardice in simply downvoting without explaining why you disagree.
.
When someone makes a controversial claim, you can first downvote them, then dunk on them in a reply - and now they’re being downvoted into oblivion while you get applause for your smug comment.
.
If someone asks me to explain why I downvoted something, I might explain or I might not
Dude, pick a lane.
I don’t see a conflict here but I’m happy to explain if you elaborate on what’s confusing about what I said.
WHO BOOED? GET UP HERE THIS INSTANT - I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO BOOED!
If people are harassing you privately, I’m sorry and I’m sure you can message a mod. If you like to express your opinion through votes and adding to the pile but don’t like others knowing you did so, you’re a coward.
I don’t understand why people are calling me a coward. I gave an unpopular opinion, I stood by it and then made a post that might subject my account to scrutiny.
I think they are referring to the point that you want your personal votes to be kept private. Some say it is a form of “cowardice” to not vote publicly.
Personally I see your point is very valid and at least this should be more actively described when signing up for Lemmy and that obviously your instance admins can see everything and you should be very careful (e.g. VPN) if you’d like to participate privately in a conversation. Maybe this is not the right platform for you then ufortunately. Everything in life has its pros and cons and certainly Lemmy is not perfect.
I don’t want just my votes to be private, though. It should be private for everyone. Why are people not seeing that?
Yes.
Where can I see the IP address Lemmy ties to me?
Admins have it. And by admin, I assume it is admins of all instances. And anyone can make an instance.
user ip adresses are not federated, only the lemmy.today admin can find your ip
IP addresses are not, and have never been federated. This may shock you, but any admin of any website can see what IP address you’re connecting from if you connect to their site.
Lemmy does make some attempts to hide your IP address, but everyone should know that any time you visit a website, that website gets your IP.
So of course your instance has your IP (whoever’s running it). And if you ever explicitly visit another domain, they’ll get your IP as well.
In the server logs if you’re a admin.
even as a lemmy admin of a server you don’t to see that. you would need server / db access
So would an oppressive government be able to simply set up their own instance and identify the IPs of lurker dissidents based on what they up/downvote?
No you have to run the instance.
I do think it’s hilarious that all these users think the majority of admins are going to do jail time protecting your data.
Only if said lurker registered on their specific instance. Only piefed.world can correlate your ip with your user and only sopuli.xyz can do it for mine.
lemmy.world never gets our ip from what we post. They could see that an ip accessed a picture they host but not with a username attached. (same as every webserver can)
Sir, this is the Fediverse.
It is nowhere explicitly made clear to users that voting is public. It should be made clear if it is going to be
An EU resident could sue for emotional damages under the GDPR. Or maybe just complain to data protection authorities.
One day it will happen.
I hope it does. Lemmy should not get benefit of the doubt just because it is open source
It’s the other way around here: Everything is public except where it’s made clear that it won’t be (e.g. email address, password).
For what it’s worth, your instance of choice is particularly negligent in regard to informing its users. Compare lemmy.today/legal to lemmy.world/legal, or their respective signup pages for examples. There’s little that Lemmy itself or the community at large can do about that 😞
It needs to be fixed. Every user is having a different user experience during account creation but everyone’s information is being federated equally.
They don’t seem very active, but you can try reaching your instance admin at https://lemmy.today/u/mrmanager
It is not the problem of my instance per se. It is a problem for all instances because everyone has to agree to instance terms but they kind of are agreeing to all instances’ terms.
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I think its a fair assumption that most people make that whatever data which isnt explicitly displayed to a regular user is not public. Having likes be public but hidden is misleading.
It is made clear because there is an option to see all the votes right next to the like button. Similarly, many sites allow you to go through activity of people you follow.
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I can see the number of votes but not who voted. This gives the impression that this information is not available publicly. However, it can be accessed by anyone on third party websites.
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I don’t think worrying about upvote is necessary im just saying
Why are you saying IP addresses are publicly shown here and why is (almost) no one correcting you? That would’ve been an enormous privacy risk that would’ve required intentionally fucking users over. Just doesn’t even make sense to write what you did about IP addresses. Seems like you’re just hoping to cause some panic.
Admins can get them. It is not available to everyone.
Who says that Reddit isn’t selling upvote/downvote and IP info? Or sharing with govts?
I am not worried about big tech because they scrape everything anyways. I am more worried about the witchhunt and potential admin abuse.
And even this does not happen, it should be made clear that votes are public
What?
Why are you worried about admin abuse? If you are worried that your admin will abuse you, you should switch to an instance you trust more.
How to decide who to trust?
Reputation, word of mouth, history, etc. Same way you decide anything else you consume.
How do you pick where you go shopping? You pick the closest one. Then if it turns out to be bad, you go elsewhere.
They 100% are
Only admins of your instance.
Only the admin of your instance can see your IP address, it doesn’t get federated to other instances.
Okay so then why fearmonger? You’re thinking that a handful of people in the world having your IP and also opinions is somehow more dangerous than anything else on the Internet?
My votes are a massive privacy risk? How? I’m putting them out there publicly willingly. As is the nature of the internet.
Seems like a good thing to me. Should be a better known feature.
How would I go about seeing this information for myself?
This always givea me a 404
Just tested your post here, your instance def opted out.
your instance may have opted out.
Or just buggy results.
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Sure, but how many people have read the docs?
🤦🏻♀️okay, good point.
I am not saying if it is good or bad but it is terrible that it is not made clear.
Yeah, at worst it’s a necessary evil to prevent a rogue user on a second instance from mass downvoting. Your username is tied to your vote, because otherwise a rogue user could just spam downvotes at whatever they didn’t like.
Instance 1 has a post. Instance 2 has a user who disagrees with that post. User is able to spam downvotes, because instance 2 is not binding their username to the vote. So Instance 1 has no way of knowing if the votes are multiple different users, or all one user. The only real solution here is to disable external voting, but the entire point of the fediverse is cross-compatibility and self-hosting. By binding the username to the vote, instance 1 is able to detect repeat votes and disregard them.
Important to note here, too, is that ip addresses of users arent synced across instances.
This is only a problem for people who care about the reputation of their user account - which is something people should be rotating out anyway if they care about their privacy.
Public votes do absolutely nothing to stop people from making a bunch of users on a bunch of instances and voting from those users. Voting agents are a simple solution to the issue, since you can still just ban the voting agent if it seems problematic.
But there’s a deeper context here, which is we are drawing a weird line between voting being a fundamental, if not critical part of the application, but also apparently grounds for imposing sanctions on users for doing it wrong? That’s a fundamentally flawed mechanic no matter how you swing it, since you can’t standardize any singular set of rules, and we are already seeing a rapid escalation of tit for tat vote bans. This is just unsustainable and is pushing things towards an obvious endpoint where there is such a chilling effect on voting that it negates the entire utility of the mechanic for sorting and content curation.
This is just further evidence that we just shouldn’t have a downvote option at all.
I agree, except we should leave the basic mechanic and just make it a placebo.
Why? I don’t see a benefit to the button at all. Even being able to register disapproval is better done via comment, anyway, and having to articulate it makes you far more likely to self-reflect and temper yourself than if you can just downvote every comment in a thread
No, downvotes are more important than upvotes
I legitimately don’t even know why someone might think this.
Disagreements are more important than agreements, otherwise it just forms echo chambers
You can disagree without a downvote option.
It’s more constructive to formulate a response for disagreement anyway.
I posted in the wrong spot, sorry. There’s a link and screenshot here:
this is why i vote at random, like two-face doing his quarter thing
I did this last night putting my son to bed, said heads you go to bed, tails we stay up. Jokes on him though, double heads. And he fell for it, what a sucker. Hope it works when he’s not four, or I at least don’t need to do it.
you’re raising a future supervillain
You get 3 accounts. Say you want to upvote something. You downvote in 1 account (randomly selected), upvote on another, and upvote on the third. So it’s net +1 and the only way to see how you voted is to piece together all 3 of your accounts voting history. Need more privacy? No problem, just use 5 accounts instead of 3.
/s
wait, so what do i do with the first shell again?
