Playing hard to get is a big fucking red flag. It shows a lack of maturity and a lack of truthfulness. It also shows a willingness to be deceitful to your partner.
This, right here. Don’t date people who play mindgames. Start a relationship the way you mean for it to continue; with open and honest communication.
Yes, obviously flirting is about dropping hints, and that’s fine, but at the point where the hinting stops and one party says “I’m into you and I hope you’re into me too”, there should be no bullshit. If you like someone you show them the basic respect of saying what you fucking mean.
My daughter is almost 5 and I’ve made a conscious effort to stop doing whatever I’m doing if she says stop or no.
For example, tickling. If I’m tickling and she says stop, I stop immediately with no back talk.
Or if I’m copying her in a joking way (we both do it to each other from time to time) and she says stop, that’s it. We’re done.
When I’m snuggling with her after reading books before bed, she feels comfortable enough to say, “you can go now” and I that’s it. I leave with no complaints.
In non-safety situations I ask if I can hold her hand. If she says no, that’s it, I’m not holding her hand. Parking lots are a different matter.
I will continue this throughout her entire upbringing so that if (ok, when) someone continues to do something she has said stop or no to, it will be unambiguously wrong to her.
Later when I explain that “no” is a complete sentence, it should feel intuitive.
Screw the haters. This is awesome. Keep it up.
My only concern with this is that she might get the impression that people will do whatever she asks, but there’s a ton of context missing which likely demonstrates those concepts to her.
My only suggestion is to make it clear that if she says no, or stop, and someone doesn’t stop, do something about that. I’m sure that will be a discussion later. She sounds young enough for it to not be very important right now.
I appreciate this.
I don’t have kids and I’m just some guy on the internet, but I appreciate you nonetheless.
We’ve been doing this with our kids; and when they say “no” and someone doesn’t stop, you better believe they say something about it!
Similarly, we’ve been getting consent before the doctor checks any underwear space. No pushback from any doctors or nurses for that either.
Boy is she in for a ride awakening when she goes out into the world. Kids like yours don’t fare well when their world view gets shattered the first time.
You’re a moron and I’m sorry for your failed upbringing.
Why are you so feckin upset about a kid being taught to say no
You need cattle to make a burger.
What argument are you even making here? That women should feel the need to say yes to everything?
Weird, because I’m surrounded by these types of people in my professional jobs.
There’s also a difference between crossing personal boundaries and professional politics.
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New green text drop.
–be me high functioning autistic, struggle with social ques.
–begin highschool, theres a cute girl.
–decide to be extra friendly, take every available moment to be beside her and friendly.
– 2 months go by, still doesnt notice my intent. Decided to be blunt.
– tell her i like her, romatically. Says cool and walks away,
– autism engage.mp3
– do the same shit for 2 weeks
– she tells me she want to be friends, I respect her wishs tho saddened.
– walk with her in-between classes like all my other friends.
– she calls me creepy and to stop stalking her. I explain im not stalking im just being a friend and just enjoy talking inbetween class.
– 2 weeks go by, she doesnt say anything about me being “creepy”
– go to B lunch where i sit by myself cause friends have A lunch.
– phone buzz.mp3
– random number of text message with photo of me 20 seconds ago at lunch table.
– panic issues, i message who dis. They reply, you dont need to know stop stalking (girls name). I explain its not stalking if i go up and say hello and talk to them.
– they dont listen, they tell me to stop being creepy. I ask again who this was. No reply…
– i tell them ill get the cops involved if they dont reval themselfs.
– lunch ends, goes to math class. Asks (girl) what she know about random texter.
– (girl) says no clue
– day ends, sleep like shit because of creepy MF.
– finally get response, im (girls friend)
– i sit at lunch table following day with her and ask whats this is about.
– she says (girl) says im a creepy stalker that follows her around and stares at her. And that (girl) asked her to do this. I explain i like talking to her, and she engages back in a mutal conversion. And that im autistic and zone out.
– she still insists im a creep
– confront (girl) in math class “Why did you lie about this, just tell me you dont want to be friends” Girl refuses to talk to me and spreads rumors of me being a creep.
– MFW i dont miss highschool dating.
TLDR- women gaslights autism into stalking and give lasting insecurity issues.
Too believable to be a greentext
Lmao what is the point of making shit like this up?
Creepy guy uses excuse of autism to justify being creepy despite clear verbal instructions and explanation.
Autism is not an excuse to be act however you want, people give you leeway not free lichence. Failing to pick up cues is one thing but you don’t need emotional intelligence to know that following someone around like that is not acceptable behavior. None of my medically diagnosed autistic friends stalk girls and they’d all understand clear and direct instructions.
Didja try reading the entire post?
– she calls me creepy and to stop stalking her. I explain im not stalking im just being a friend and just enjoy talking inbetween class.
This one is the part where he should have stopped talking to her.
ASD here and i can absolutely see how that was presented to OP as and read as a misunderstanding that required clarification
My dude, the social que was missed. It was not verbalized what she wanted. The average person may have gotten the social que. But I did not, i missed it completely, which to some credit i should have inquired more about. But hindsight is 20/20, i understand alot more social ques as i have aged and gain experience. And this is a constant reminder, on troubles i face on the daily. Being autistic isnt a vilification for any action, but it also needs to be takin into account. And what the persons original intent was aswell as where they are on the spectrum.
Saying autism is a lump some cover for hanus intent is a lie and dispicable But just like how autism is a spectrum and not just one diagnosis, there should be a moving range of understanding.
“High-functioning autism was historically an autism classification where a person exhibits no intellectual disability, but may experience difficulty in communication, emotion recognition, expression, and social interaction.” In this refrence from wikipedia, it clearly states high functioning autsim stuggles with communication, and this true. I do not tell alot of people im autistic because many people see autism as down syndrome. Which i sympathize for but try to inform them that autism is a spectrum. Many people including close friends didnt believe me when i said i was autistic. Because in qoute “i didnt act weird” i have grown alot as a person through out the years and appreciate all the effort from my family and therapists to get to this point. There are still certain textures and sounds that upset me, but i can now tolorate them.
She explicitly told you that you were creepy and to stop stalking her. I don’t know what more you could expect from someone. You don’t get to decide if your behavior makes someone else uncomfortable or not.
I suggest you reread, i do agree autism is not blanket excuse. However i did explain in detail that i was not stalking, or following her around in a creepy manor. I did this to ALL my friends, and all interactions where consentual. I did not harras or berate anyone who didnt want to talk. Many interactions included the phrase “do you want to chat on the way to class” to which i forgot to add for better context.
Also for better clarity (Girl) never said to fuck off (Girls friend) did.
If (girl) wanted me to fuck off she should have self advocated and say i dont want to be friends with you.
Because as stated “shes didnt want to be Romantic and just wanted to be friends” to which i did stop saying she looked niced and other things that could be takin as Romantic, and simply had small talk, asking about her day, talking about teachers and upcoming assignments.
Also i must add using autism as a lump sum to cover up creepy shit is not right. But i find rather moronic in your use case as you lump “all my autistic friends dont do that”
May i remind you that autism is a spectrum, not one person is the exact as the other. And added context would be beneficial if they were also high functioning. Comparing people on the spectrum is rarely ever apple to apples. “My one autistic friend starts screaming and crying when his peas touch his corn on his plate” Compared to “My friend misses social ques and struggles with communication”
Also via wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-functioning_autism
“High-functioning autism was historically an autism classification where a person exhibits no intellectual disability, but may experience difficulty in communication, emotion recognition, expression, and social interaction.”
Good day,
Yes I very well understand its a spectrum but that doesn’t mean you can write a blank pass for yourself and claim ‘it’s just a special aspect of my autism so I can’t be blamed for objectively bad actions on my part’
If you have difficulty understanding emotion then use logic and analytical thinking to help. and to help you understand I’ll be very clear and direct - I am telling you this because it’s practical and useful advice which will improve the quality of your life.
Deaf children have to be taught that farts make noise, likewise in think maybe you don’t realize how obviously manipulative you’re being in telling this story and how you’re arguing about it - this is what will drive people away and make your life harder, like the deaf kid might not know that people can hear him coming but the noise is loud to other people, you might feel that people can’t tell you’re trying to be manipulative about it and logic her into having to be nice to you but to her and her friend it’s as loud as a moaning orgasm.
Logically you can devise simple heuristics to determine appropriate actions, s good one is to consider the actions of the other person and how they compare to the easiest path towards their possible intent. For example in any conversation the person will either want to continue it or end it, however they likely will want to remain polite and kind so won’t be pushy or rude - are they adding to the conversation, continuing it, picking it up when it flags or are they giving short answers, mostly answering rarely asking?
The way you describe your conversations with her sounds like you’re trapping her with her desire to be polite. For example ‘do you want to talk to me’ is a question most people wouldn’t ask because it forces the person to pick beteeen two potentially negative options; yes or rudeness. It’s why you’d generally hear it couched with a soft exit or left unsaid and replaced with an open invitation like ‘oh maths is next, the homework was so boring’ allowing them to end the conversation with something like ‘yeah…’ or start it with ‘yeah, I didn’t even read all the questions it was so boring…’
Of course it’s not an exact science but it’s very easy to see trends, if you saw a graph with all the conversation trajectories overlaid and it was all one person starting them and the other person taking the path of least resistance and rudeness towards ending them then you wouldn’t need to know anything else to know she’s not interested.
From her perspective you’re seeking her out and trapping her in conversations that she can’t politely get out of - especially because she likely doesn’t want to hurt your feelings and likely has genuine affection for you as a human and a friend - however that affection does not mean she wants you stalking her or constantly popping up with ‘hi, do you want to talk to me’ traps.
So to go back to where we started, you can say that you weren’t being creepy but what you mean is you didn’t intend to be creepy. Seeking her out and trapping her in conversations feels creepy to her, to her it feels annoying and awkward because she doesn’t want to be direct but you push her into it time and time again then even when she does you make it more awkward by trying to litigate it and argue your point and telling her that she’s wrong about her feelings - people hste that, I bet you would too.
And here’s an elephant in the room I’ll make explicit because I know you might overlook it otherwise, when you’re so ready with a link to Wikipedia explaining how your actions are justified by your autism it makes it very obvious that you’re using this to explain why she’s wrong to feel like she does. This is one of the many reasons that she’s uncomfortable saying no to loaded questions like ‘do you want to talk to me’ no one wants to look like the assholw who’s rude to the special needs kid. Yeah that’s a hard pill but it’s reality, if you want her to think of you as a nice, interesting and not creepy guy then you have to act like that - you can’t use logic and manipulative conversational tricks to force her into emotions.
And yeah don’t worry if you try a bit people will let you off a huge amount of mistakes and cringe but not because you’re autistic, just because you’re interesting and fun to know without being too much of a burden or bore.
As an autistic woman who dates and befriends a lot of autistic people… everyone here was autistic. This is why people with autism really need to learn communication skills and how to respect boundaries. Given that this was high school, that compounds the issues (high schoolers have very little social skills).
The first boundary violation was him telling her that he liked her every day for 2 weeks. Like even telling someone once can cross emotional boundaries, doing it every day is a LOT. For a high schooler. I am pretty nice to homeless people and sometimes they tell me they love me. None of them have done it every day for two weeks. That’s odd af behavior. When she tried to communicate that, she did it badly (but really who ever is in this situation??), and OP disagreed with her feelings (not a debate) and basically said he’d keep walking with her because he wanted to. That’s the second boundary violation. Then keeps violating boundaries after they amplify hostile behaviors. It’s like petting a rattlesnake and getting bit, despite the snake warning you repeatedly to go away.
Autism, OCD, and low serotonin can be comorbid, and OCD in particular is associated with stalking and obsessive behaviors. Not every person with OCD will stalk ofc though.
There’s already kind of a “shortage” of autistic women who are willing to date men, and then they run into guys like this and get sworn off it. The lack of communication is the main problem, but also it’s hard for people to have similar special interests. One of my friends dated a guy who started to develop a special interest in taxidermy and made a long cloak of rat skins including the tail. It did not smell good or look good. She is a vegan veterinarian. It was a huge conflict.
“No means no” means “no means no.” You don’t get to have it both ways!
Look, lady, we went through decades of the women’s lib movement to finally get guys to respect your wishes and quit harassing you with unwanted advances. But now you expect us to be clairvoyant or some shit when you say “no” but don’t really mean it?!
Fuck that! You get respected whether you like it or not.
If I had a dollar for every girl that found me unattractive, girls would find me attractive.
Everybody here is saying it’s feminism or metoo. But if she’s been dating for long enough to notice these differences, then she might just be getting older.
Teenagers will spend a lot of time wooing the person they want. Middle-aged people have no time and will simply move on to the next person who’s not playing games.
Teenagers will spend a lot of time wooing the person they want. Middle-aged people have no time and will simply move on to the next person who’s not playing games.
Bingo. Adults have no time for stupid games. Kids do.
Not gonna lie yall losing your shit over this post gives me incel vibes
I’m half covinced this is some incel/Tate fanboy pretending to be a woman.
Nah I’ve experienced that myself. I spent years kicking myself for taking ‘no’ as ‘no’ from this one girl (we were teens) only to be told she wanted me to keep persisting. It took a long time for me to realize that she wasn’t worth it.
I’m not saying it couldn’t be. I’m not convinced it isn’t either. But I will say I’ve known women who not only want to play that game, I’ve known women who want to tell you no and have you take what you want anyway, and they don’t always have that conversation with you before hand.
they don’t always have that conversation with you before hand.
Well, see, there’s the problem. If you’re into CNC, you need to have the conversation with someone, and you still need to establish safewords and shit, so that one person doesn’t think it’s CNC while the other person is experiencing sexual assault.
Oh, and the women that are into CNC are not into just anyone doing that; they still want it to be ‘safe’. Or safely un-safe.
these women don’t care about that. they are operating on a toddler level of wanting what they want and throwing a tantrum if they don’t get it.
communication is not something they have developed yet.
I’ve known women who want to tell you no and have you take what you want anyway
…and I’ve met women who will say that because it sounds smart at the moment. They maybe genuinely wanting to play a little bit of a game within reason, but when speaking on the topic they will just casually forget about the nuance and insist on “no does not mean no, don’t give up boy” BS.
They don’t realize that saying that in a group of reasonable polite people, assuming we all know what it really means (play just a little bit), it’s not entirely BS, but if there’s a desperate sociopath/stalker with no ability to respect limits properly there somewhere, then they might just take it as justification for rape.
I went home with a lady friend, who invited me into her bed, then said that we’re not going to do anything. So, I didn’t even try, and we just talked and cuddled. FF to two years later, and we start dating, and she questioned why I didn’t try anything that night. Like, duh. A lady says no, it means no. That is what I’ve had drilled into me as a male since I was a very young age. I’m so damn scared of being called for sexual harassment.
I’m very curious how that conversation continued after you said no means no.
She was surprised at my answer, because it wasn’t what other guys would have done. I guess ultimately she respected it because we dated for a few years.
I’m so damn scared of being called for sexual harassment.
So, you aren’t worried about sexually assaulting somebody? You’re just worried about being caught?
What you said is a bit childish. No, definitely not scared of this because it will never happen. I’m not going to do this because I’ll ensure there is consent first. Please read and understand what I said… (edit: grammar)
Oh fuck off, you not only knew what they meant, you’re being awfully dismissive of what even a claim of sexual assault can do to a person.
You did the right thing. I helped a lady friend move out from her husband’s when they split. She didn’t want to stay in a new apartment all alone, so I offered to spend the night on her couch. Well come time to bed down, she wanted me in her bed. Then she wanted to snuggle. Then she started rubbing her backside against my front.
Well I read the signs and we had sex. It was fine. Wind up dating for a bit. Like 3 weeks later we were talking about something and she lays on me, “I never said we could have sex so technically you raped me.”
You do not fucking accuse someone of technically rape as playful banter. Things went awkward and downhill after that. Not solely because of that. She was not ready for a relationship that soon after splitting from her husband, but I was young and horny and too inexperienced to possess the level of maturity necessary to understand that.
Anyway, maybe if I had made sure to give her more time it would’ve gone better. Probably not. But I damn sure wouldn’t have gotten accused of rape.
Yeah… Puuh. That’s not a normal thing to say. If it’s dark humor, and said with irony, it might be perfectly fine, and even funny. Because then, they don’t actually mean it. But, if they do mean it? Sheesh. You dodged a poison leaded bullet.
Hard to explain exactly. I think she meant it humorously, except in a way where she kinda meant it? I think it was in the context of her ex sexually abusing her and me saying I was nothing like that.
It’s not cool to say, “my ex was a crazy bitch.” I was no paragon of maturity myself. But I do think she had some issues. She was about 22 (I think that’s how old I was) and that had been her second marriage, and there were issues with how we treated one another that spoke to both of our immaturities.
I think the whole thing lasted about 3 months, so it wasn’t like it was so bad that I instantly left. But it sticks in my craw nearly thirty years later. On some level, she meant that. And she probably told her next partner I was part of the pattern of abuses she suffered—waving her damage around like a broken wing looking for… something.
She’s probably grown up by now. Most of us do. Those are some really awkward years for a lot of us.
ETA: Thinking on it, the thing is she was trying to bring me down to her ex’s level. She was joking that I shouldn’t hold myself above the guy who abused her. That’s just not funny even in a playful way. No matter how tee hee you say it, that’s toxic as fuck.
You did the right thing.
Honestly, this weird dichotomy of “playing hard to get” and expecting the guy to make a move after being told no is in the process of dying, but it could go faster.
I often wonder how much slut shaming has to do with women who expect/want this sort of behavior from men. Does it make them feel like they aren’t “responsible” for the sexual encounter if the guy is pushy, therefore they aren’t a slut?
I’ve always wondered about it since I hated pushy dudes when I was still dating. My husband had excellent manners and etiquette, that’s what initially attracted me to him, so this one is a mystery.
Maybe one day someone can figure it out and explain it to me.
I often wonder how much slut shaming has to do with women who expect/want this sort of behavior from men.
Honestly, probably a lot. Women are every bit as horny as men are in their late teens and 20s, but there’s a ton of social pressure on women to be both virgins and whores; not have sex, but be sexually desirable. (Meanwhile, men mostly get told that they’re supposed to be ready to go all the time.) The old Christmas song, “Baby It’s Cold Outside” relies on this whole trope; she wants to say yes, but she can’t just say yes; she needs to have some excuse. And he knows that, so he’s trying to give her the excuse she wants. But to our ears now it ends up sounding very rape-y.
